Illegal as the shaft isn't long enough, 40" is the minimum
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Get rid of jump cues for Mosconi Cup
- Thread starter hang-the-9
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Illegal as the shaft isn't long enough, 40" is the minimum
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Aren't phenolic tips illegal in most tournaments? I'll go back to Earl, who made a jump draw shot with his regular length break cue with a leather tip.
Comparing a jump cue with a rake ain't even close... the rake (and chalk) have been part of the game forever. Jump cues?... what, 25 years? IMO, the tournament should dictate jump or no jump... how about old-school three foul, no jumping? Do you remember how to play 9 ball PRE TEXAS EXPRESS?? Spot it up, pal.
I get that the game has changed some... I just don't like guys automatically thinking jump..some of the younger guys just think that way.."I'll just jump and hit it and f**k him up" ( I've heard that said out loud)... tiddly winks.
That is 100% illegal, that is what stops them.
This post nails it right on the head.
Banning jump cues is not unprecedented. Back in the 90s when they were first taking off some players were jumping using just their shaft, then the super short jump cues with the big tips came along and it made jumping so easy as to become ridiculous. This led the rule change where there was a minimum length of 40" for jumpers That worked for a while but the bottom line is that time has passed. The rise in the super hard and/or phenolic tips have brought us right back to that same point where pretty much anyone of moderate skill can execute what should be very difficult jump shots with relative ease. Too much ease, really.
Obviously a ban will be unpopular, because so many people who play pool currently use them, and win a lot of games with them. That's why it will take a lot of courage for organizers to carry out. Which probably means it won't happen.
Completely disagree. Especially in a luck game like 9 ball where failing to hit the only object ball is a massive penalty. Jump shots are like every other shot except harder.
The modern jump cue does one thing - it makes it easier to get the ball in the air. Same thing chalk does for spin.
It does not take the shot. The Mosconi was actually a great showcase for controlled jump shots under pressure.
Banning jump cues would be just like banning chalk.
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The modern jump cue does one thing - it makes it easier to get the ball in the air. Same thing chalk does for spin.
It does not take the shot. The Mosconi was actually a great showcase for controlled jump shots under pressure.
Banning jump cues would be just like banning chalk.
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Sorry...but we had chalk in the 1960's and 1970's but none of my friends or myself used or owned
jump cues. We used masse' and kick shots.
Now masse' would be tough on the cloth made today.
We'd have to start using a special masse' cue instead of the jump cue.
:yikes:
.
Sorry...but we had chalk in the 1960's and 1970's but none of my friends or myself used or owned
jump cues. We used masse' and kick shots.
Now masse' would be tough on the cloth made today.
We'd have to start using a special masse' cue instead of the jump cue.
:yikes:
.
It's not the 60s any more. The cloth is different, the rails are different, the rules are different, the game is different.
As for masse' shots being tough on the cloth types used today, no not really. Actually easier.
As for chalk....there was a time when chalk didn't exist and then when it was invented people would take it to places that didn't have it and amaze everyone with all the cool shots they could do. They would win money. In fact the story goes that the reason we call side spin "english" is because chalk was introduced to the USA by an englishman named Jack Carr. He traveled America selling Jack Carr's Magical Twisting Powder.
Chalk increased the amount of shots that can be made. Chalk does not make the shot for you. Without chalk Mike Massey can not draw the ball at all. With Chalk he can draw three rails. I can't draw the ball half as good as Mike even with chalk.
I dare anyone here to show me a shot that is easier as a jump shot than as a shot with no blocking ball. I see I really need to make a video on this ASAP.
Shane, up against the wall in one of his matches nailed a table length jump shot with position. If someone doesn't see the skill involved in a shot like that then they simply don't understand pool at all.
In order to make a successful shot you have to aim right, then you have to decide on the right amount of speed and spin and then execute it right.
In order to make a successful jump shot you have to aim right, then you have to decide on the right amount of speed and spin and then execute it right and do this while jacked up in an uncomfortable position.
No that isn't what I was saying at all. Do you not read well?
I don't know how many times I have to say this.
I can take a full length "normal" cue and make Earl Strickland look like a D player if he tries to jump with it.
Conversely I can put a full length "normal" cue in a B player's hand and make him look like Strickland.
Regular cues have different "jumpability" properties. It isn't all simply a matter of stroke.
What a jump cue does for the game is the EXACT same thing that chalk does, it takes one aspect of the game and makes it accessible to everyone. With a jump cue everyone has the same opportunity to make jump shots IF they have developed the skill to do so.
And it is a skill even with a jump cue. Just like drawing the ball is a skill even with chalk.
Chalk only gives the OPPORTUNITY to spin the ball. Your stroke combined with the friction chalk provides is what makes the spin happen. Your touch is what makes the shot successful or not. Chalk by itself does nothing. A jump cue by itself does nothing.
Things that benefit everyone are,
Chalk
Good Cloth
Good Rubber Rails
Precision Slate
Well Built Cues
Leather Tips
Jump Cues.
All of these things are available to every player and thus it is only the SKILL of each player that separates them.
Yes, Earl Strickland mastered jumping with a full cue. He found cues with good "jumpability" and worked on his skill to bring it to the highest degree possible WITH THAT EQUIPMENT. When he was with Cuetec he actually used a shorter version of his playing cue for jumping because he certainly understood that a shorter cue was easier to handle.
Yes me having a jump cue would allow me to have the opportunity to do a lot of the same shots Strickland did with a full cue but they don't mean I will do them as well as him or as consistently as him. AND if Strickland then uses a jump cue his arsenal of shots increases tremendously, well above mine because he is that much better already than I am.
If a master carpenter can do something with a shitty tool and someone invents a better tool to make that task easier and accessible then it doesn't diminish the skill of the master carpenter. Instead it frees the master carpenter to use his skills in other ways while he can do the task much easier with the better tool.
Jump cues are not beneficial as you quote. Not to belittle you John but beneficial in your eyes only because you sell them? Imo jump cues are the biggest joke in pool and surely will be detrimental to this fine sport in the long run. Ban them as soon as possible.
Somewhere you have to add 'kicking skills' to your repertoire as a more serious player instead of having this bandaid/crutch approach such as jumping. You don't think 'finding the ball skills' are needed or essential? I certainly do
Again John as a serious player, I appreciate all that you do for pool ... but this 'jump cue syndrome' - trash it before it really hurts us
Jump cues are indeed a joke and should never be allowed to use in tournaments, I myself don't own a jump cue, sometimes I put myself into trouble and hook myself, I ask a friend of mine to lend me his, and then I just use it and jump over a ball to hit that OB, get myself out of the trouble that I put myself in, sometimes I make the ball even, thats about 50% of the time, thats how easy it is to use the jump cues.
Now did I get a penalty for my position error? no, I wasn't punished for hooking myself.
I believe that the people who defend jump cues/shot in here used to be fascinated by it, and think it's a cool shot before learning it themselves. Then they proceed to learn it and practice it, and become even good at making the balls with their "jump cues" so now they don't want to believe the fact that its an easy shot because they put their time on the shot, and they want to keep thinking that it's a fascinating shot and they are good at it, I'm not saying all the defenders, but most of them are, trust me. And thats why they're defending it hard.
Now did I get a penalty for my position error? no, I wasn't punished for hooking myself.
I believe that the people who defend jump cues/shot in here used to be fascinated by it, and think it's a cool shot before learning it themselves. Then they proceed to learn it and practice it, and become even good at making the balls with their "jump cues" so now they don't want to believe the fact that its an easy shot because they put their time on the shot, and they want to keep thinking that it's a fascinating shot and they are good at it, I'm not saying all the defenders, but most of them are, trust me. And thats why they're defending it hard.
This whole issue of the use of the jump cue to me should be a non issue. I for one see the jump cue as just another tool in a player's arsenal to be used for a specific occuring shot situation during a game. Which to me is no different than when a golfer uses a specific golf club for a specific lay situation on the golf course. For me the idea of banning the use of the jump cue would no different than trying to argue for the banning the use of all golf clubs except for the use of the Putter.
Currently the game has regular playing cues for majority of shot situations, and then there are break cues, jump cues and masse cues all for specific shot situations. And I don't see anything wrong with that. We as players have 3 primary responsibilities. 1) Be a master of the rules of each game we play and compete in, 2) Be a master of our overall skill set, and 3) Be a master of our equipment.
Someone can certainly choose to be a master of their one playing cue for the break, and all the shots that occur during a game including the jump and masse shots. I will not fault anyone for making that choice if they choose to do so. And I will not fault anyone for choosing to use a break cue, jump cue or masse cue as well. Either choice requires a player to learn to be a master of their equipment.
I am sure there has to be a few golfers out there that play a mean game of golf only using the putter for every shot on a golf course. I'm not going to fault the player for that choice. But overall I think in the history of golf the development of the different types of club designs and types has advanced the quality of the game overall. And in that same vein I feel that the development of the different types of cues for the few specific shot situations that they deal with advances the game in general.
So quit complaining about specific types of available equipment. Choose the equipment that works best for you and be a master of that chosen equipment. If you master your equipment, your skill set, and the rules of the games you play then you have nothing to ***** about. Your mastery will take care of your competition in the long run. Those that complain around you either need to step up their skills to be on equal footing with your or get out of the game. That's pretty simple to my way of thinking.
Currently the game has regular playing cues for majority of shot situations, and then there are break cues, jump cues and masse cues all for specific shot situations. And I don't see anything wrong with that. We as players have 3 primary responsibilities. 1) Be a master of the rules of each game we play and compete in, 2) Be a master of our overall skill set, and 3) Be a master of our equipment.
Someone can certainly choose to be a master of their one playing cue for the break, and all the shots that occur during a game including the jump and masse shots. I will not fault anyone for making that choice if they choose to do so. And I will not fault anyone for choosing to use a break cue, jump cue or masse cue as well. Either choice requires a player to learn to be a master of their equipment.
I am sure there has to be a few golfers out there that play a mean game of golf only using the putter for every shot on a golf course. I'm not going to fault the player for that choice. But overall I think in the history of golf the development of the different types of club designs and types has advanced the quality of the game overall. And in that same vein I feel that the development of the different types of cues for the few specific shot situations that they deal with advances the game in general.
So quit complaining about specific types of available equipment. Choose the equipment that works best for you and be a master of that chosen equipment. If you master your equipment, your skill set, and the rules of the games you play then you have nothing to ***** about. Your mastery will take care of your competition in the long run. Those that complain around you either need to step up their skills to be on equal footing with your or get out of the game. That's pretty simple to my way of thinking.
I thought alot along the lines of "play tighter, lock up safeties". Which is true but I think the thing that bugs people is more when a player plays a terrible shot, hooks themselves and easily escapes with a jump, and that's what has really made me dislike jump sticks and has changed my mind.
Think I remember hearing people discuss having a rule of 1 jump per rack or a certain amount for a set which could work possibly but I still believe they should be banned at a pro level, but most likely won't now, too many people making them now lol...
Think I remember hearing people discuss having a rule of 1 jump per rack or a certain amount for a set which could work possibly but I still believe they should be banned at a pro level, but most likely won't now, too many people making them now lol...
I don't sell jump cues. But I did sell them at one time.
I think it is a terrible accusation to make that I would only be on the 'for' side of something because I sell it.
Perhaps you and everyone else could consider that a person can be for something because they considered all sides of the issue and made a thoughtful decision to support it because to them the positives outweighed the negatives?
The argument that it's an either/or between kicking and jumping is silly. Well rounded players learn both. Kicking can literally be learned in five minutes. Mastering kicking takes a while just like mastering jumping. Sure anyone with a half decent stroke can clear a ball in minutes. But learning to control the shot accurately takes practice.
If you can't pick up a jump cue from scratch and jump as well as I can with it then that shows you it takes skill.
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Not me. I see the jump shot as a needed part of the game under the current rules. Just like chalk jump cues evolved to enhance the game by adding more shots to it.
Using a borrowed jump cue doesn't show protest, it shows laziness. Kind of like borrowing a break cue or asking the best player on your league team how to kick because you never bothered to learn how.
What it shows is that you realize full well how beneficial jump cues are but stage a mock protest anyway.
Saying you have a 50% pocketing success rate is probably not true but it could be if you only take on easy jump shots.
You are certainly not achieving 50% pocketing by taking on difficult jump shots. If you think you are then you have action with me on that all day.
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Doesn't it equally disgust you when a player hooks themselves and kicks out of it?
How do you know they didn't spend five minutes learning a basic kicking system to get them there?
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Chalk use is not like using jump cues, using that as an example as a product that makes the game too easy is silly. Chalk is what enabled pool to be the game it is rather than rakes shoving balls into holes. Jump cues make pool out to be something less that what it should be.
There is no question that making a tough shot with a jump cue is still not easy. But many shots would just be impossible like jumping a ball a few inches away. And just getting the hit is huge and when the ball is an inch from a pocket jumping a ball and making it is literally child's play.
I don't know a single player that has ever said chalk should be banned, or bridges or gloves. Or LD shafts.
But not a single pro player interview that I have seen on TAR or anywhere else has ever said they like jump cues in the game, and if given a choice would chose to not have them allowed. Those that use them do so because others do.
There is no question that making a tough shot with a jump cue is still not easy. But many shots would just be impossible like jumping a ball a few inches away. And just getting the hit is huge and when the ball is an inch from a pocket jumping a ball and making it is literally child's play.
I don't know a single player that has ever said chalk should be banned, or bridges or gloves. Or LD shafts.
But not a single pro player interview that I have seen on TAR or anywhere else has ever said they like jump cues in the game, and if given a choice would chose to not have them allowed. Those that use them do so because others do.
Sorry but this fails the logic test. If it were a simple manner of everyone having another tool in their arsenal then the super short and 'kangaroo' jump cues from the 90s would not have been banned. But they were.
And the reason they were was because they basically made a mockery of pool safety play. Now the new jump cues are doing the same thing. They need to go, period.