In what instances is someone better suited to have a stroke slip ( letting the cue slide in the final stroke ) instead of pendulum or piston stroke ?
The stroke slip .
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
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I've done extensive studying on what I prefer to call the release stroke (which you refer to as the stroke slip). First, I want to precede my comment by saying it's pretty addictive, but easy to develop some bad habits, such as not following through and letting the sliding cue do the following through instead of your arm -- so anyone trying it has to be very aware of their fundamentals at all times.
Releasing the cue allows it to travel in a straight line without being encumbered by the grip hand. The cue will continue on whatever path you set it, so if you twist your hand before release, it will continue on that path and it won't accomplish your goal.
Some difficult shots, like extreme cuts, for example, can create a certain amount of anxiety in a player to cause them to steer their arm or twist their grip hand right at the point of impact. The obvious comeback by an instructor might be that the player should just learn how to shoot without twisting. But it's not just that. Most of us have some kind of minimal hand movement at the point of impact. I was amazed at the shots that seemed impossible--- at least for me, that I was able to make by releasing the cue.
Releasing the cue prior to impact avoids the actions that cause the miss. Two players who I know released the cue fairly often were Efren Reyes and Nick Varner. I'm sure there were more, and I do it sometimes, myself, but more rarely now than I used to because I fell into the bad habit of not finishing the stroke with my arm, which was starting to enter into my normal stroking habits, so I cut down on using that stroke.
Releasing the cue allows it to travel in a straight line without being encumbered by the grip hand. The cue will continue on whatever path you set it, so if you twist your hand before release, it will continue on that path and it won't accomplish your goal.
Some difficult shots, like extreme cuts, for example, can create a certain amount of anxiety in a player to cause them to steer their arm or twist their grip hand right at the point of impact. The obvious comeback by an instructor might be that the player should just learn how to shoot without twisting. But it's not just that. Most of us have some kind of minimal hand movement at the point of impact. I was amazed at the shots that seemed impossible--- at least for me, that I was able to make by releasing the cue.
Releasing the cue prior to impact avoids the actions that cause the miss. Two players who I know released the cue fairly often were Efren Reyes and Nick Varner. I'm sure there were more, and I do it sometimes, myself, but more rarely now than I used to because I fell into the bad habit of not finishing the stroke with my arm, which was starting to enter into my normal stroking habits, so I cut down on using that stroke.
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If Ms. Crimi will forgive me for again quoting another teacher--Sir Issac Newton--a paraphrase of one of his laws of motion says that if you don't mess with a cue stick sent in a straight line motion, it will go forward perfectly straight for quite a while--even forever if in a vacuum. In other words, the release stroke or stroke slip is going perfectly, powerfully straight in the direction in which the player strokes than releases the cue stick because there is no hand jiggle knocking it off line. You can therefore hit massive spin shots with this technique and I developed some interesting trick shots with this technique. It is playing with fire but fun!
I've not found that I can get any more spin by 'throwing' the cue. I think that may be due to a fear of throwing it hard enough to get any massive spin would result in the cue going too far & actually going completely out of the hand.
I'm also very tentative about using the stroke for any significant straight draw for fear that the ball draw back & hit the cue before & I re-grip it & lift the cue.
To me the use of the stroke is for accuracy. I've never used it as a means to get or gain any significant spin.
In fact, I think it is a bit more difficult to control spin with the trowing of the cue. That's not to say that I've not hit with spin using the stroke but I don't if I must be precise.
That's just my take & like Dennis Miller, so often says, 'I could be wrong.'.
I'm also very tentative about using the stroke for any significant straight draw for fear that the ball draw back & hit the cue before & I re-grip it & lift the cue.
To me the use of the stroke is for accuracy. I've never used it as a means to get or gain any significant spin.
In fact, I think it is a bit more difficult to control spin with the trowing of the cue. That's not to say that I've not hit with spin using the stroke but I don't if I must be precise.
That's just my take & like Dennis Miller, so often says, 'I could be wrong.'.
There is such a thing as throwing the cue but that's actually more intense then just allowing it to release in your hand. Try keeping your normal hand position on the cue, only loosen it up just before impact so the cue slides through.
Kinda like a pendulum stroke with a soft hold? The cue will just slide at the finish.
Yeah Fran,
Thanks.
I do it the way you're saying. I was responding to Matt saying one can get 'massive spin' with it.
I've not found that for the reasons I stated.
I used 'throwing' in single quotes because of the slip stroke/stroke slip confusion by some.
Best To You & All.
Sure. That's one way to do it. Just make sure you follow through with your arm to keep your stroke timing right.
slip stroke not a replacement for Piston or Pendulum
As I understand it, letting the cue slip a little, especially for long high speed shots does not preclude the use of either stroke. Willie Mosconi said he had two strokes and, because he was not that tall, he would sometimes let the butt of the cue slide forward (slip) on the long, hard, or hard to reach strokes.
As I understand it, letting the cue slip a little, especially for long high speed shots does not preclude the use of either stroke. Willie Mosconi said he had two strokes and, because he was not that tall, he would sometimes let the butt of the cue slide forward (slip) on the long, hard, or hard to reach strokes.
Pidge, so many champions have used it .
John Schmidt said you can never guide the cue as straight as you can drop it.
I find it to be a tool.
Whenever I miss one or two long straight in shots. That tool is out of the box & in my back pocket & handy for the next long straight in shot.
Best Wishes to You & All
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Lots of pool players try goofy things because they never learned good fundamentals. It is not polite, however, to make fun of them, Pidge.
I had a friend that would pick on pool players with poor fundamentals. One day that friend had a baby, and the damn thing can't even make a straight in shot 1 ft from the pocket.
Karma, I tell ya.
Sounds like you never had a chance to teach Mosconi his good fundamentals. Think how good he might have been Bob. :wink: My understanding is Mosconi used the pendulum and the slip shot as his two different strokes.
"I played an exhibition match against Mosconi in the mid 1960's ( I was the
straight pool champion at my university and was offered up as the sacrifice)
and was also startled at how accurate his control of the cue ball was. I was
too nervous and too much in awe to really pay much attention to the details of
his stroke.
He did use a slip stroke sometimes. As he explained it to me, he did it when
he needed more action on the cue ball like extreme draw."
Dick Schneiders
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And that let it slide draw stroke was shown to me by his former touring partner, Wayne Norcross from PA.
Wayne had a slip stroke as well. Held the cue in the middle of the wrap and moved his hand back in the final stroke.
Light grip
I actually think the slip stroke is a natural outgrowth of a very very light grip. One person describes sliding his hand back to vertical and then letting the cue slide through his grip hand on long follow through shots. I have experience that myself and think it is probably better than gripping the cue to stop it which no one thinks is a good idea. Sometimes the cue tip pressing on the cloth will cause the back hand to slide forward if the grip is light enough.
I am not a proponent of the slip stroke but I do understand how it works and think there are worse ideas.
I actually think the slip stroke is a natural outgrowth of a very very light grip. One person describes sliding his hand back to vertical and then letting the cue slide through his grip hand on long follow through shots. I have experience that myself and think it is probably better than gripping the cue to stop it which no one thinks is a good idea. Sometimes the cue tip pressing on the cloth will cause the back hand to slide forward if the grip is light enough.
I am not a proponent of the slip stroke but I do understand how it works and think there are worse ideas.
Im not here to be polite. I'm here to stop people from learning stupid habits because one guy this time happened to win a few tournaments with said stupid bad habits. Learn to move your grip on a straight line for crying out loud. Lots of snooker players didn't have tuition until very late on. Jimmy White comes to mind and yet he managed to keep hold of the cue... For a reason.