Get rid of jump cues for Mosconi Cup

The "purists" are placing the work easy with regard to a jump in their posts so often its mind blowing. Neither kicking or jumping would be regarded as easy. Percentages of makes are pretty low in either. If kicking is a lower percentage it doesn't mean we should ban jump cues. It IS part of the game. Tell me if you've negotiated a spot that included NOT using a jump cue.

Can we just say that it's like the designated hitter in baseball? Whether you're in the national league or american league, you still have to hit the ball for crying outside...

If you disagree with the DH rule, you can choose to skip the american league games.
 
The "purists" are placing the work easy with regard to a jump in their posts so often its mind blowing. Neither kicking or jumping would be regarded as easy. Percentages of makes are pretty low in either. If kicking is a lower percentage it doesn't mean we should ban jump cues. It IS part of the game. Tell me if you've negotiated a spot that included NOT using a jump cue.

Can we just say that it's like the designated hitter in baseball? Whether you're in the national league or american league, you still have to hit the ball for crying outside...

If you disagree with the DH rule, you can choose to skip the american league games.

Actually, I have negotiated spots based on the use of jump cues. There was a guy I used to gamble with ($100s a set, not $5/10), and on a race to 10, I told him I'd give him a game on the wire if we played no jump cues. Or, he gave me a game on the wire if he wanted jump cues. He always chose the latter. And he usually lost giving me the spot. He ALWAYS lost if we didn't play with jump cues. Maybe he should have spent the $8 learning to kick.

Everyone on AZ is a pro, though. They can tell Mark Wilson what's wrong with the US team, never miss a shot, and everyone kicks like Efren.

JB is the Sheldon Cooper of CTE and jump cues. Too bad he's a B player, at best. But, he "knows" how to do everything at the professional level. :)
 
Not a single pro I have heard an interview with wants jump cues if given a choice.

Yet they all use them. Even Earl. So funny when I see Earl playing in the $25 weekly tournament at Steinway against bangers and busts out the jump cue he claims to hate so much.
 
Yet they all use them. Even Earl. So funny when I see Earl playing in the $25 weekly tournament at Steinway against bangers and busts out the jump cue he claims to hate so much.

Didn't he try to pull out his jump cue playing Shaw at a tournament there but couldn't because he hadn't assembled it before the game or something like that?

Earl should at least make money off of this whole thing. Maybe he needs to come out with a t-shirt that has a picture of him jumping with his break cue and a caption that reads "Jump Cues are for Pussies!".
 
More deflection. When you can't win on facts you go straight to insults.

There are only a few subjects which I am a factual expert on. Cue cases and jump cues are two that am. So in this particular debate, when it comes down to the facts I am on very solid ground.



I have never said that a phenolic tip or a super hard tip isn't important. I said there are other factors as well that go into making a good jump cue. Of course a hard tip is going to improve the jumpability of any cue. But I can make a jump cue with a phenolic tip that doesn't jump very well at all.

I can also make a jump cue with a pure leather tip on it that jumps almost as good as a stock Bunjee jumper. An untreated tip. Want to bet against me on that?



Maybe they should. I guess all the times the USA won they did outkick the Euros right? The European team also had plenty of great jump shots in the Mosconi Cup.

Maybe what should happen is you should stop whining about jump cues. You seem to have purchased so many of them and yet don't seem to understand how to use any of them. Maybe folks like you should stop looking for a magic bullet and work on your skills instead. You don't need 10 jump cues, you just need to practice.

The magic bullet is the jump cue although I jump better than most it's easy to see why some top player want them out of the game even though thier good at them
The reason is they think the better player will win a kicking battle most of the time average players already get short races that gives them a better chance then they would have in a long race
Just like push out opposed to one foul another equalizer for lessor players
I guess they figure if you handcuff the top you get more players ,, and thier right

1
 
Dam glad to know Iv hit some jump shots that would be considerd shots of the tournoment who would have thunk it ,,

1

The thing about the "shot of the tournament", is that it was a tournament. A pro tournament. On TV. With plenty of pressure. I've proabbly made almost every great highlight shot from a tourney at least once if not many times. The difference is that it wasn't in that big pro tournament. Hence, it didn't qualify for "shot of the tournament".

I have no doubt whatever shot you are talking about was great, but I guess I wouldn't have thunk it...


KMRUNOUT
 
Use whatever "specific marketing" you'd like. It was a glass epoxy tip. :)

Larry couldn't make that shot with an Elkmaster tip on the cue. So, if I change the tip, and the shot can no longer be made, is it truly the player's skill that makes the shot?

Seriously? That is your argument?

Yes, it is still the players skill. Obviously. This is especially weak for you lol. Try this:

So if I change the player, and the shot can't be made, is it really the tip that makes the shot?

How about this one: Larry has some ridiculous draw shots on youtube. If we put a "glass epoxy" tip on his cue, the shot can't be made. Therefore it is the tip that makes the shot.

See how ludicrous this sounds?

KMRUNOUT
 
The games we play are not 100s of yrs old barely 100 .and really has had very few big changes in equiptment non bigger than the jump stick

1

You may have misread John. He said "Equipment has been evolving for hundreds of years."

Do you dispute that statement?

KMRUNOUT
 
Seriously? That is your argument?

Yes, it is still the players skill. Obviously. This is especially weak for you lol. Try this:

So if I change the player, and the shot can't be made, is it really the tip that makes the shot?

How about this one: Larry has some ridiculous draw shots on youtube. If we put a "glass epoxy" tip on his cue, the shot can't be made. Therefore it is the tip that makes the shot.

See how ludicrous this sounds?

KMRUNOUT

If I change Ko's jump cue tip to a standard Moori, he can't make 80% of the jump shots he currently makes. That's fact. If you lose that much "skill" by changing a tip, it's the equipment making the shot possible, not the player's skill.

Want facts? Johnny Archer was lethal with the early leather tipped jump cue. 15 years later, he's able to play jump shots he couldn't play in the 80s and 90s. His skills hadn't changed. His jump prop had.

Can hardly wait to hear why I'm wrong this time. Cooper?
 
It was a great shot because of the moment , the shot it's self was pretty routine

1

Isn't that really the definition of a good shot?

Kinda reminds me of what may be the best line in the movie "Poolhall Junkies":

"you can't make that shot again in a million years"

"I don't have to make it in a million years...I just made it *now*!"

KMRUNOUT
 
Jump cues make the game more exciting? Better for ratings? How has pool done, as a viable "made for TV" sport in the 20 years they've been legal?

Answer: it's still going nowhere.
 
The phenolic tip has all but eliminated the need for any of the above knowledge.

The measles ball is lighter than a standard cueball in an Aramith set. It jumps really well. An oversized bar ball doesn't jump that well at all, because of the increased weight, and the chunk of metal in the middle. Snooker balls jump really well. A golf ball jumps like a superball.


How did I do?

So-so I think.

The measle ball is not lighter. It weighs pretty damn close to the object balls. It may be heavier or lighter, based on the tolerances. And which set you use it with.

An oversized bar ball does not have a chunk of metal in the middle. It is intended to be used with a ball return system, and the way it is distinguished from a numbered ball by the table is its larger size. The magnetic balls you are thinking of tend to be the same size and weight (within the crappy tolerances of those ball sets).

I think what John was referring to though was differences between standard cue balls. For example, the red circle ball is a different composition than, say, the blue circle centennial ball. The red circle jumps like crazy.

I've never tried jumping with Snooker balls, but I bet it is very hard to hit the spot you are trying to hit with your jump cue tip.

John didn't mention, but the cloth makes a huge difference as well.

KMRUNOUT
 
:sorry:


For people that don't know...Sammy Jones was jumping with a leather tip

back in the early to mid 1980's. Back then, he was the best I've ever seen.:thumbup:




.
 
Actually, I have negotiated spots based on the use of jump cues. There was a guy I used to gamble with ($100s a set, not $5/10), and on a race to 10, I told him I'd give him a game on the wire if we played no jump cues. Or, he gave me a game on the wire if he wanted jump cues. He always chose the latter. And he usually lost giving me the spot. He ALWAYS lost if we didn't play with jump cues. Maybe he should have spent the $8 learning to kick.

Everyone on AZ is a pro, though. They can tell Mark Wilson what's wrong with the US team, never miss a shot, and everyone kicks like Efren.

JB is the Sheldon Cooper of CTE and jump cues. Too bad he's a B player, at best. But, he "knows" how to do everything at the professional level. :)

Of jump cues for sure. I certainly know way more than you about the subject. I also don't have to be a nit and negotiate games based on the use of a legal tool just because someone else is better with that tool than I am.

I guess you are what then? I mean you think we aren't allowed to talk about what we think Mark should do with the team because we aren't "good enough" yet you presume to tell the WPA and the Texas Express tour founders, and the BCA how to make their rules based on what? Your opinion as a super nobody? I mean it's not like anyone ever heard of you outside of AZB. You're not considered one of the better players from Canada as far as I know. Maybe you're the best guy on your league team but that's probably about it.

Yet you SEEM to think that your OPINION means something.

Do you know why I sold jump cues (and am considering doing it again)?

Because they are LEGAL.

The governing bodies took up the question more than 20 years ago and deemed them to be LEGAL for use.

These were then, and still are, some of the smartest people in pool, all with lots of experience. They looked at all aspects of jump cues and decided to regulate them and allow them for tournament play. What part of legal is hard to understand?

I get it that despite claiming to have owned around ten brands of jump cues and despite claiming to have collaborated on the design of one brand you seem to want to ban jump cues. But the fact is that your opinion has no weight. It simply doesn't matter.

All your arguing, and all mine, on here doesn't matter. We are peons....the rules are set, the jump cue is legal for use in every tournament that adheres to the World Pool Association's rules.

I sold jump cues because I saw an opportunity to make a profit on a legal item. I learned everything I could about jump cues so that I could do a good job of selling them. Along the way I became fairly proficient at jumping because I chose to practice enough to be able to demonstrate them adequately. I also learned how to teach people how to jump as a necessity precisely because they are not automatic. In the past 16 years since I first introduced the Bunjee Jumper I have considered this topic from every angle and heard every argument.

I wouldn't REALLY care if they banned the jump cue tomorrow but I think it would be a travesty to allow jump shots and not allow the tools that expand the shot to it's farthest limits. I happen to think a 1mm jump shot is pretty awesome just like I think the circle draw shot is pretty awesome. I can't do either of them with any consistency but I like living in a world where they are not only possible but also allowed for those that can do them.

I happen to respect the wisdom of the rule makers on this and think they did the right thing by establishing parameters for the jump cue. Cry all you want to Shawn but it's unlikely to change. And especially not in the Mosconi Cup where they definitely WANT the excitement and drama produced when a killer jump shot is made.
 
Actually, I have negotiated spots based on the use of jump cues. There was a guy I used to gamble with ($100s a set, not $5/10), and on a race to 10, I told him I'd give him a game on the wire if we played no jump cues. Or, he gave me a game on the wire if he wanted jump cues. He always chose the latter. And he usually lost giving me the spot. He ALWAYS lost if we didn't play with jump cues. Maybe he should have spent the $8 learning to kick.

Everyone on AZ is a pro, though. They can tell Mark Wilson what's wrong with the US team, never miss a shot, and everyone kicks like Efren.

JB is the Sheldon Cooper of CTE and jump cues. Too bad he's a B player, at best. But, he "knows" how to do everything at the professional level. :)

You do get the premise of the show that Sheldon Cooper is brilliant, and factually correct all the time? Maybe not the insult you were shooting for...

KMRUNOUT
 
If I change Ko's jump cue tip to a standard Moori, he can't make 80% of the jump shots he currently makes. That's fact. If you lose that much "skill" by changing a tip, it's the equipment making the shot possible, not the player's skill.

Want facts? Johnny Archer was lethal with the early leather tipped jump cue. 15 years later, he's able to play jump shots he couldn't play in the 80s and 90s. His skills hadn't changed. His jump prop had.

Can hardly wait to hear why I'm wrong this time. Cooper?

I know you love breaking the rules with your insults and personal slurs. You won't drag me down with you but if we get lucky perhaps the mods will give you a time out.

Take away the chalk and 90% of the shots pros play go away as well.

Yes, for the millionth time, the CUE is engineered to make jumping easier. That was the whole purpose of the short jump cues in the first place. Also back in the day some players already figured out that they could simply take the tip off a house cue and use that cue to jump with. Of course their control was shoddy but they could make the ball hop.

NOW

Jump cues are tool with which players can do everything that a regular cue can do AND jump with. Yes the tip (and cue configuration) makes the act of jumping easier and adds a lot more shots to the game, but the cue DOES NOT TAKE THE SHOT.

Let me repeat that, the cue DOES NOT take the shot.

Did you get that?

The jump that Ko makes under pressure was made by Ko, not by the jump cue he holds. Ko had to decide what angle to use. Ko had to decide what amount of spin to use. Ko had to decide what amount of force to use. Ko had to make sure that there was enough chalk on the tip.

Is this really that hard for you to understand?

Why have you owned so many jump cues? Is it because you were looking for a magic bullet instead of practicing? Jumping like Ko isn't because of the tip, it's because Ko is simply more skilled than you are with the tool he uses. The tool ONLY gives both of you the possibility to make those shots, practice is what determines the probability that you will.
 
You do get the premise of the show that Sheldon Cooper is brilliant, and factually correct all the time? Maybe not the insult you were shooting for...

KMRUNOUT

Lol. He's a theoretical physicist. I guess you don't get the internal humour about him being "right" most of the time. And actually, all of Sheldon's major theories on the show have been proven wrong. You should really watch the show.
 
http://www.wpbsa.com/sites/default/files/uploads/official_rules_edited_05.11.14_web_version_1.pdf

Section 3, The Game
Rule 10 Penalties (a)(ix) states it is a foul to play a jump shot

Dave :smile:

PS Not the Mosconi Cup, but "The Game" :smile:

For snooker. Also in snooker the rules don't require contacting a rail AFTER contact. and there is no ball in hand penalty for not contacting a rail. What they do is make you try again if the incoming player doesn't like the position. Totally different game.
 
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