Who played 9ball... before Texas Express rules was the norm?

Pushout said:
Call shot/safety eliminates the luck factor of the two way shot. If you shoot and hook me....that IF is what makes the two way shot a luck shot. Grady played call shot in one of his tournaments and Tony Robles's tour plays that way now, I believe. Granted, a lot of people don't like this because, like push out, it makes the game more difficult but, some people think, more fair.
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Well I'll be honest with you, I look at it from a different perspective.

If my opponents running out on me & jaws a ball & he had perfect shape on the next ball & the position of the cueball that left him with perfect shape on the next ball is such that I'm hooked & can't see the ball he jawed, I don't curse that he got lucky & hooked me.
I'm happy that I'm at the table with an opportunity, albeit a tough one. The alternative as I see it is he normally wouldn't jaw that ball, he'd be out, so I actually feel fortunate.

I think more than a few here have been on both sides of this. Many craft their game with 2 way shots. Ginky & Danny Basavich come to mind for me as 2 of the best I've seen at it.

The problem is everyone's always trying to change this game into something it's not. These rolls have always been part of the game. My Pop used to call 9 ball a Carnival game because he hated those aspects of it. He was an old school 14.1 & one pocket player. 9 ball was always a gamblers game, it wasn't like it was invented when they decided to try to put pool on TV, it's been around forever.

Like it or not the TE days of 9 ball was the biggest boon that pool ever had, it's just a fact. Wherever pool is going it's not going to get far with 1 game played under 74 different formats as has been going on for about 15 years now.
 
Colonel said:
Well I'll be honest with you, I look at it from a different perspective.

If my opponents running out on me & jaws a ball & he had perfect shape on the next ball & the position of the cueball that left him with perfect shape on the next ball is such that I'm hooked & can't see the ball he jawed, I don't curse that he got lucky & hooked me.
I'm happy that I'm at the table with an opportunity, albeit a tough one. The alternative as I see it is he normally wouldn't jaw that ball, he'd be out, so I actually feel fortunate.

I think more than a few here have been on both sides of this. Many craft their game with 2 way shots. Ginky & Danny Basavich come to mind for me as 2 of the best I've seen at it.

The problem is everyone's always trying to change this game into something it's not. These rolls have always been part of the game. My Pop used to call 9 ball a Carnival game because he hated those aspects of it. He was an old school 14.1 & one pocket player. 9 ball was always a gamblers game, it wasn't like it was invented when they decided to try to put pool on TV, it's been around forever.

Like it or not the TE days of 9 ball was the biggest boon that pool ever had, it's just a fact. Wherever pool is going it's not going to get far with 1 game played under 74 different formats as has been going on for about 15 years now.
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I just feel that years ago somebody missed a shot, saw the opponent hooked, and thought "Hmm....maybe I could do that on purpose!". Hence, the two way shot. I can understand it in One Pocket, where you have options other than the next ball in rotation but I've ALWAYS hated it in 9 ball where you have to jump/kick to get a legal hit. Don't misunderstand me, I've played that game since the late '70s, doesn't mean I can't play that way or that I have to like it. I don't play enough any more to matter, to be honest.
 
I began playing 9-Ball in the 1960's while I was at the top of my 14.1 game.
We called all shots, CB in the kitchen on scratches. The more popular
game around San Jose, CA. was 6-Ball (short-rack 9). Same rules, but the
pace was faster. You could either win fast or lose faster.
The late 60's ushered-in the "real" money game .... One Pocket, and I would
regularly sweat the games between San Jose Dick and many a tough Road
Player.
In truth, I have never been a big 9-Ball fan, regardless the ground rules.
Kind of like Snooker with only 6 Reds.
 
Pushout said:
As far as a two way shot being "interesting", I call BS! If you're good enough to make the shot, call it. If you miss allow you opponent to give it back to you if or give up ball in hand. I couldn't begin to tell you how many shots I've seen, at all levels, result in a hook that the uninitiated thought was two way but in reality was just a miss, sometimes by a diamond or more.
At the very least, remove the so-called two way shot from the game and improve the game enormously!
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Well girls, I have this to say about call shot... for the umpteenth time.

One does not call shots in Snooker... Anybody think Ronnie O'Sullivan is "lucky"?

Dale(who plays One Pocket once in a while)
 
Robert58 said:
Believe it or not. 9-Ball used to be illegal in Texas. They legalized it in the early 60's. Pool halls sprang up on every street corner. That's when everyone in Texas started playing 9-Ball. Sure wish we still played by the rules we started with. Back then if you Ducked and played a Safe, you would get your arms broke. No two shot shootout or ball in hand.
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You are so right Robert, the way some of these guys play now they wouldn't have lived long enough to get good.
BIH came about because of Chicken S--t kind of play.--Smitty
 
pdcue said:
Well girls, I have this to say about call shot... for the umpteenth time.

One does not call shots in Snooker... Anybody think Ronnie O'Sullivan is "lucky"?

Dale(who plays One Pocket once in a while)
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For the upmteenth time, has nothing to do with snooker.
 
Harold Smith said:
You are so right Robert, the way some of these guys play now they wouldn't have lived long enough to get good.
BIH came about because of Chicken S--t kind of play.--Smitty
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Mid-90's, a local C & W bar held a 9-ball tourney every Saturday at Noon.
$5 entry, $50 added for 20 or more players. Standard 9-Ball rules apply.
"Most" players attempted to run the rack, shoot obvious combos/caroms.
However, the owner (an accomplished player) and a few others always
slammed the pack hard, in hopes the 9 would find a hole. Amazingly, he
won a lot of matches and tournaments. Never saw him play Safe, but he
would luck-out quite often and leave his opponent zilch.
Nowadays, at our local tournaments, I rarely see anyone slam the pack.

All that said, I would prefer to call all shots, spot balls which were slopped
in or left the table.
 
Yes, pre-TE 9 ball remembered... BIH in the kitchen, spot 'em up... no
jump cues. Spot shot? What's that?... try that in today's 9 ball environment.
TE certainly sped up the game, but changed it too.
 
I never really played the 2 foul push out 9-Ball. We played 9-Ball with no ball in hand. If you scratched it was behind the line. If you failed to hit the low ball the other player still had to shoot from there. It caused some players to get mad if someone played safe. So I was glad to see the Texas Express rules come along.
 
dchan320 said:
Was talking with a friend about when we played back in the 90s and the game of 9ball. Texas Express was an option, not a standard rule like today of playing 9 ball. We would always asked what are we playing? 9 ball or TE 9 ball?

Did you play 9ball where an illegally pocketed ball was spotted? Was it an option to take BIH, play CB where it is, or have opponent shoot again? I know there was the notion of making spot shoots, so was BIH behind the kitchen only? I can't remember exactly... Maybe I'm just imaging all this.

Just reminiscing... No need to post a link to official rules, but welcome hearing how you played 9ball before TE. I'm sure some will be scratching their head. LOL

-Doug
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Excellent question Doug...Having spent most of my playing days, prior to TE rules, let me give you my personal thoughts...No good player, from Buddy Hall, Strickland, or CJ Wiley on down, cared at all for TE rules!..It really had nothing to do with the 'best player' looking for the nuts against an amatuer, it just changed an exciting game, (for both players and spectators alike) into a boring safety game. :(

That is what led to 10ball, alternate break, call shot etc., which is even MORE boring!..The ball in hand, anywhere on the
table, was the end of the shot-making challenge, as we knew it!..Also, In trying to eliminate the 'luck factor' (the most exciting part of all pool games) TE basically ruined 9/10 ball for everyone!..That is why the most popular gambling game of all, now seems to be one pocket!..It has a better mix of offense, cue ball control, shot making and safety play, than any other game
on a pool table! ;)

PS..That is why the current crop of 'good players', may be the underdog to make a simple 'spot shot' from the kitchen..In the 50's-60's, it was considered almost a 'gimmie'! :cool:
 
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I'd like somebody to give actual examples of how the shots are so much different than they're in TE.

Because you still have to make the ball in every pocket billiards game. I guess my intellect isn't letting fully grasp. The vastness of just how much easier it is with TE than without.

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RCLane said:
I'd like somebody to give actual examples of how the shots are so much different than they're in TE.

Because you still have to make the ball in every pocket billiards game. I guess my intellect isn't letting fully grasp. The vastness of just how much easier it is with TE than without.

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Pocketing the balls is the same DUH... The structure of the game and the strategy, even philosophy of how to win is different,.

Dale
 
pdcue said:
Pocketing the balls is the same DUH... The structure of the game and the strategy, even philosophy of how to win is different,.

Dale
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I'm trying get a scenario giving PLAY by Play where I can fully understand an then start to better appreciate the Game of 9Ball not TE an how it's a game for TV an Players who'd never cut it playing Original 9Ball

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Johnnyt said:
TE and jump cues ruined 9 ball period. Johnnyt
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Well that's not a the answer I'm looking for an probably a lot of others.

You know so maybe these pool players like myself can learn to play the original game of 9 Ball.

That's what I'm being serious about this.
I'd like answers, So I can fully understand an then start to better myself in the game of Original 9 Ball

And any serious answers would be highly appreciated,

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