Get rid of jump cues for Mosconi Cup

[KMRUNOUT]

And you shouldn't brag about making the best cases in the world, when you actually do nothing with regards to actually making a case, aside from getting your workers to build what you ask them to. Pot, kettle.

Your workers make great cases, though

Lol again. In the analogy, JB is to designer as SA is to worker. Wow...

KMRUNOUT

 

[one stroke]

I don't know if in this entire thread I have said one way of the other what I think about jump cues. I jump well. Far above average. I'm surely the best jumper in my home pool room. To be honest, if there was a jumping contest and pros could enter, I don't necessarily feel like a huge underdog in that.

That being said, I really don't care if jump cues are allowed or not. I think there are very good arguments on both sides. (Although not in this thread lol. Not many good arguments of any kind here except what JB says). I'm happy either way.

Funny though...with my jumping abilities, I suppose the following situation may seem odd. I play sometimes in Amazin Billiards in Malden, MA. It is owned by Mazin Shooni, who I understand just became the president of the USBA. I was playing some 3 cushion for the second time in my life. All I had to go on was my kicking abilities learned in pool. I ran a 5. That's not so great, but for someone who has played 3C for less than 3 hours its not too bad. I tried 10 innings 3 times. My overall average was 0.400. That is pretty bad, but again when I told Mazin this he looked at me funny, as if that wasn't supposed to happen. He and a couple of the other good billiards players said I was a "natural" for billiards, and should take up the game. I love the game, it is truly beautiful. Anyway, the point is, somehow being a very good jumper apparently didn't ruin my kicking game. So the "learn to kick" argument is a dead end. It just sounds silly.

KMRUNOUT

No one said it would ruin a good kick game . what's said is the jump cue eliminates the need on many shots
In the video of jump shots JB posted only a fraction of those get made kicking at them

 

[KMRUNOUT]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D482HdU9OF4

I think his opponent gets ball in hand...no object ball even *contacted*...

Seriously guy...you are really embarrassing yourself...

KMRUNOUT

 

[jburkm002]

Really??? Lets take a logical discussion and make it silly. JB tried with the non-relevant chalk pivot. Why don't we make a 3 second shot clock and you have to hold your breath until your turn is over?

The title of the thread reads: Get rid of jump cues for Mosconi Cup. Let's try and stick to somewhat around the the original topic. Not that I'm a mod, industry wheel or greater power but if you want to get silly then I suggest you start a new thread.

Yes SIR

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[JB Cases]

Really??? Lets take a logical discussion and make it silly. JB tried with the non-relevant chalk pivot. Why don't we make a 3 second shot clock and you have to hold your breath until your turn is over?

The title of the thread reads: Get rid of jump cues for Mosconi Cup. Let's try and stick to somewhat around the the original topic. Not that I'm a mod, industry wheel or greater power but if you want to get silly then I suggest you start a new thread.

And we discussed it ad nauseam.

Jump Cues are not going away in the mosconi cup.

I didn't "try" with the relevant chalk comparison, that is exactly the right comparison.

once again,

Chalk does not make the shot, it makes the shot POSSIBLE.

The Jump cue does not make the shot, it makes the shot POSSIBLE.

I can't draw the ball like Larry Nevel just because I have chalk on my tip.

I can't jump the ball like Larry Nevel just because I have a jump cue in my hands.

Just tools that come to life in the hands of skilled shooters. The higher the skill level the more the shooter can do with these tools.

Oh and knowing a kicking system doesn't make the kick. But it makes the kick a lot more probable when the shooter knows how to figure the angles.

Guy shoots an awesome three rail kick, some of you go nuts and say what a talented player. You don't know he simply did the math and got his angle from that.

Guy shoots an awesome jump shot and some of you say, ugh...the cue did all the work....

 

[JB Cases]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKQD2Flo9IY

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Well, I realize it isn't too common, but there is this little sport called "golf", in which a significant part of the game is using the correct club for the given shot. This sport seems to be gaining some popularity...

Another odd example is "pool". Many players use a specialized cue just for breaking. Kind of like using a driver for the drive in golf.

Bowlers can change balls based on the conditions (which can change over the course of a match).

Race car drivers change all kinds of things, the most obvious being tires. They have dedicated rain tires, which they go to when the conditions warrant it.

I'm sure there are many other examples but I didn't want to spend more then 10 seconds thinking about it.

Now what?

KMRUNOUT

I guess you missed the point of the post. Typical.

Golf used to be played with 2 clubs. Then 3. Now it's 13. The point of the post was that there isn't a shot specific club in a golf bag. If I want to hit the ball 150 yards, I do not have to use an 8 or 9 iron. I could choke up on a 4, and bump and run the 150 yards. Golf is a three dimensional sport, and the ball was always supposed to go in the air. There is not one shot specific club in the bag. A putter can be used on the fairway, or to knock the ball out of the rough. I have yet to see a jump cue used in the game of pool for anything other than a jump shot.

I've ran a rack of pool with the rubber bumper on the back of a house cue. I wouldn't advocate it as the best method to run balls off. When the first major tournament in pool is won by a player using a phenolic tip, I will take back my statement.

Regarding tires on race cars, they have a choice of a couple of tires to use. I'm not familiar with Nascar, but F1 has one company that makes their tires. You can change your tires at any time during the race, but there's a time penalty, as you have to pit. Ronaldo COULD change his shoes during a soccer game, but he'd need to leave the field and sub out.

A bowler can choose any ball he wants to bowl. He can't, however, load a ball unevenly that would help it hook more. He still has to use the exact same skills and technique throwing the ball for the spare as he did for the strike before.

Are you and JB twins separated at birth?

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I think his opponent gets ball in hand...no object ball even *contacted*...

Seriously guy...you are really embarrassing yourself...

KMRUNOUT

This from the guy that claims the centre of a basketball is bigger than the centre of a golf ball. Genius....you are not.

Circumference and diameter are NOT the centre

 

[one stroke]

And we discussed it ad nauseam.

Jump Cues are not going away in the mosconi cup.

I didn't "try" with the relevant chalk comparison, that is exactly the right comparison.

once again,

Chalk does not make the shot, it makes the shot POSSIBLE.

The Jump cue does not make the shot, it makes the shot POSSIBLE.

I can't draw the ball like Larry Nevel just because I have chalk on my tip.

I can't jump the ball like Larry Nevel just because I have a jump cue in my hands.

Just tools that come to life in the hands of skilled shooters. The higher the skill level the more the shooter can do with these tools.

Oh and knowing a kicking system doesn't make the kick. But it makes the kick a lot more probable when the shooter knows how to figure the angles.

Guy shoots an awesome three rail kick, some of you go nuts and say what a talented player. You don't know he simply did the math and got his angle from that.

Guy shoots an awesome jump shot and some of you say, ugh...the cue did all the work....

The reason for saying ugh is because we know it's nothing special
1

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Guys, you can keep at it with your "advancement" rhetoric.

John illustrated the best point in the thread. He defined pliable. G10 and C/L based phenolic are NOT pliable. They are not easily bendable. Therefore, they should not be allowed per the rules. I have a rod of G10 here. Can't bend it. A rod of bakelite phenolic. Can't bend it. So how do these tips qualify within the rules of the game?

By pool's definition, cement is pliable.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I don't hate John. I find him amusing. He should be king of some country.

The air of superiority from people in an industry whose proceeds couldn't pay the taxes on the industry I work in is priceless.

Shouldn't you be watching an $8 kicking video?

Interesting news...value in life is quantified in dollars. I wasn't aware. Says a lot, though, about people who think that way.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

I think his opponent gets ball in hand...no object ball even *contacted*...

Seriously guy...you are really embarrassing yourself...

KMRUNOUT

You should really watch the whole video. There was a jump shot in there that you missed....

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Interesting news...value in life is quantified in dollars. I wasn't aware. Says a lot, though, about people who think that way.

KMRUNOUT

I guess you missed his post that I responded to. John brought up money and contributions to society. Your idol was the one that stooped to bringing his financial superiority into play.

 

[JB Cases]

No one said it would ruin a good kick game . what's said is the jump cue eliminates the need on many shots
In the video of jump shots JB posted only a fraction of those get made kicking at them

So what?

I mean honestly SO WHAT?

The penalty is BALL IN HAND for not hitting the object ball and a rail.

So since the jump shot is legal why shouldn't players have every possible opportunity to go after the OB any way they want to?

Pull out a masse' cue and do a double around the table - who cares? The shooter had to take a stick and using only his judgement hit the ball in the right place at the right pace to make the shot happen.

You all are missing all the points here. The game is MORE BEAUTIFUL when all the possible shots are there for whatever player can develop the skill to do them.

No one says, oh gee you know what chalk makes it too easy to spin the ball so let's ban it. No one says that dude only made that massive masse' shot because of chalk.

No, they say HOLY SHIT that was an amazing shot.

Same thing when someone pulls off a great jump shot,

Holy Shit that was an amazing shot.

To me it sounds like a bunch of jealously.

------------

As a reminder, A PROFESSIONAL PLAYER invented the jump cue. Makers filled the need with better and better versions until we have pretty much reached the pinnacle now.

The cues have been a part of the game for more than 30 years. Deal with it.

They are here to stay UNLESS the professionals decide to ask the WPA to bar them.

If any amateur wants to bar them then please, start sucking up to your favorite pro and get them to speak to the WPA. Start your own letter campaigns, go on the road and show people the evils of jump cues. Go, now.

 

[JB Cases]

I guess you missed his post that I responded to. John brought up money and contributions to society. Your idol was the one that stooped to bringing his financial superiority into play.

No, you brought that up. Calling me a leech on society. Also against the rules I might add.

I only said you're a super nobody in pool. Which, as far as I know, is 100% true.

I also said if you TRULY cared about jump cues being banned you be doing something more than bleating about them on forums.

But the examples you give of owning 10 or so jump cues leads me to believe the real problem is that you think of jump cues as magic wands and keep looking for one that will give you some skill without realizing that the skill comes from inside.

Maybe you are resentful on this point, I don't know but something certainly doesn't add up when a a guy comes out so anti-jump but yet has owned so many of them and even willingly been part of designing one, inasmuch as a person can "design" a jump cue when much better ones than the TNT were already on the market.

 

[JB Cases]

Guys, you can keep at it with your "advancement" rhetoric.

John illustrated the best point in the thread. He defined pliable. G10 and C/L based phenolic are NOT pliable. They are not easily bendable. Therefore, they should not be allowed per the rules. I have a rod of G10 here. Can't bend it. A rod of bakelite phenolic. Can't bend it. So how do these tips qualify within the rules of the game?

By pool's definition, cement is pliable.

A regular leather tip is also not "pliable" by many standards.

My guess is that the qualify by being shapeable. I don't know. It's a good point and again one which is practically unenforceable without some sort of testing device defined in the rules.

 

[JB Cases]

The reason for saying ugh is because we know it's nothing special
1

Well then if it's nothing special you get up there and do it for the cash.

Oh wait.....

That's right

NO BODY WANTS TO BET A QUARTER ON THEIR OWN ABILITY TO DO THESE EASY SHOTS.

Talk is cheep....cheep.....cheep

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

So what?

I mean honestly SO WHAT?

The penalty is BALL IN HAND for not hitting the object ball and a rail.

So since the jump shot is legal why shouldn't players have every possible opportunity to go after the OB any way they want to?

Pull out a masse' cue and do a double around the table - who cares? The shooter had to take a stick and using only his judgement hit the ball in the right place at the right pace to make the shot happen.

You all are missing all the points here. The game is MORE BEAUTIFUL when all the possible shots are there for whatever player can develop the skill to do them.

No one says, oh gee you know what chalk makes it too easy to spin the ball so let's ban it. No one says that dude only made that massive masse' shot because of chalk.

No, they say HOLY SHIT that was an amazing shot.

Same thing when someone pulls off a great jump shot,

Holy Shit that was an amazing shot.

To me it sounds like a bunch of jealously.

------------

As a reminder, A PROFESSIONAL PLAYER invented the jump cue. Makers filled the need with better and better versions until we have pretty much reached the pinnacle now.

The cues have been a part of the game for more than 30 years. Deal with it.

They are here to stay UNLESS the professionals decide to ask the WPA to bar them.

If any amateur wants to bar them then please, start sucking up to your favorite pro and get them to speak to the WPA. Start your own letter campaigns, go on the road and show people the evils of jump cues. Go, now.

Better yet, a deck of Chance cards on the side of the table. Deal a set of cards out at the beginning of the game. There are "lose a turn" cards. "Get out of jail free" cards. When you get hooked, you can play the get out of jail free card. Last ball before the run out, the opponent can play the lose a turn card, and take over. There could be a hole cam like poker. It would definitely improve the marketability of the game.

Who are these professionals you speak of? It there a world ranking group? A series of tour events that have points? A world champion that is crowned at the end of the year based on the year's results? An end of year seeded event for all of the players of the world?

There is no world sanctioning body for pool. I could create a league today, or a tournament series, offer tonnes of cash, and state "no jump cues". You could walk up to me, show me the WPA rules, and demand to be allowed to use the jump cue. And you could continue to complain about it to your friend on the way to your car, and during the drive to the next tournament that will allow you to use it. The jump cue isn't universally legal. It's allowed to be used in any event using WPA rules. There are no universal laws of pool. That's what pool is missing. So please stop with this BS of "jump cues are legal, so deal with it". They are illegal at several events, which means there are a growing number of players that don't like the jump cue.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

John..I have tried to remain neutral in your ongoing battles with your detractors! ..But I must say something I'm sure 'everyone' else has noticed..You have a very eloquent way of talking down to them..Your way with words is admirable..And, your customer relationship, is impeccable! (BTW, how do you fire a customer?) But, you seem to take a lot of 'middle ground', when it comes to specifics!

For instance...Are you for or against 'jump cues'?..What gives you the audacity to speak on behalf of 'most' professional pool player's?..Are you for, or against CTE..(scratch that last one, you are living proof) )...You seem to have a burning desire, to make everyone think you know, about all there is to know about...well, everything!...Has the word 'humility' ever been part of your vocabulary? ..You are starting to make Mr3cushion look like a cub scout, when it comes to "knowing it all"! (and believe me, that ain't easy!

Some people are smart. MOST people are not. The smart ones will appear to be "know it alls" to the not so smart ones. Sometimes just talking is "talking down" when your ego is bruised because you are wrong.

John didn't say he spoke for all pro players. How on earth did you come up with that? John specifically said he was for jump cues, and gave numerous reasons why.

In many cases, smart people are smart people because they have a desire to be right. Although there is a very important distinction to be made: Some want to be right in that their knowledge reflects reality. Some want to be right in that others accept their view whether or not it reflects reality.

The bottom line is that in thread, John has made rational logical arguments, and his detractors have not. The detractors may be right, but their inability to formulate a rational argument eliminates this outcome.

If we make an analogy here between level of play in pool and level and quality of argumentation, we have a semi pro player running racks on a few C players and one or two bar room ball bangers. Sad that the bangers don't recognize this.

At least that is how I see this thread having gone.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Some people are smart. MOST people are not. The smart ones will appear to be "know it alls" to the not so smart ones. Sometimes just talking is "talking down" when your ego is bruised because you are wrong.

John didn't say he spoke for all pro players. How on earth did you come up with that? John specifically said he was for jump cues, and gave numerous reasons why.

In many cases, smart people are smart people because they have a desire to be right. Although there is a very important distinction to be made: Some want to be right in that their knowledge reflects reality. Some want to be right in that others accept their view whether or not it reflects reality.

The bottom line is that in thread, John has made rational logical arguments, and his detractors have not. The detractors may be right, but their inability to formulate a rational argument eliminates this outcome.

If we make an analogy here between level of play in pool and level and quality of argumentation, we have a semi pro player running racks on a few C players and one or two bar room ball bangers. Sad that the bangers don't recognize this.

At least that is how I see this thread having gone.

KMRUNOUT

I honestly wonder if you even have a clue as to how condescending your posts are. Wow.