Why Object Ball Last?

[BarneyCalip]

Learn from your misses

Great Post.

I am going to try, oops.
My daughter say's there is no TRY, Dad, just do it.

I am going to use QE in my game.

Last month I started looking at the Que Ball last during my break, and it has made a remarkable improvement in my breaks.

Hal Mix told me to not only focus on the object ball, but to watch where the object ball was hit and to seeeeeee which side of the pocket the object went in. He said when you do these three things you can correct your stroke/aim.

 

[(((Satori)))]

It was pointed out to me that my last look varies, most of the time I'm focused on the ob last but at times it seems I will focus on the cb last. To the best of my knowledge the determining factor seems to be the crucial aspect of the shot that I need to focus on. I know I'm looking at the OB on most shots, especially the shots where just pocketing the ball is the crucial aspect, but I think my eyes are looking at the cueball last when I am shooting a shot where position, in particular the speed of the shot, is crucial. This is not a conscious decision it is just what happens. In fact, when I'm focusing on the speed, yes I believe my eyes are looking at the cueball last on the final stroke however my sight is not my main concern anyway. During the shot process on position shots I find that after I have lined up I am more focused on feel than what I see. In fact, what I actually see during the final stage of the shot process on these shots is not what my eyes are focused on but it is the picture in my head of what is about to happen.


Anyways, just something to add to the discussion.

 

[West Point 1987]

I found that pausing forward at the CB really helps me, especially as I can see the connection from pocket to OB to CB and cue tip, all in one glorious picture. Visualize success and pull the trigger (I focus on the contact point on the OB as my bullseye). But I will admit that when I'm in my highest gear, I realize I'm not even looking at the CB--I see the connection as one picture, with my focus on the contact point on the OB. The key for me is to stay down and watch the result of the shot (did I contact the contact point, where did I hit the pocket, did the CB come off the OB the way I predicted/intended, etc.). I always stay down/still until the OB drops, usually until the CB stops, too, if I'm not in the way. I find I need all that feedback to keep on track.

Looking at CB last is a deceptive mistress...it works well much of the time (enough to make you think you're on the right track), but you'll soon lose your connection with the rest of the shot if you focus too much there and it will let you down in the end.

 

[rrick33]

It's not what you look at......it's what you see.

 

[the kidd]

Carum players look at the CB last since the hitting area is most important.

 

[Ratta]

Carum players look at the CB last since the hitting area is most important.

says who?
I met and know for sure several national, european and worldclass champions. Practiced/played many times with some of em in the 80/90 s-- to say that carom players generally looks at cb at least, not so sure about that ^^

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Ken...Because your cue goes where your eyes look.

I know its been about three years but I guess I just ran across this.

Your cue goes where your eyes go. This cant be a serious statement, can it???

If your eyes are focusing on the OB and the eyes go there then how do you expect to hit the CB where you need to???

It was explained to me this way. If you are driving a motorcycle down the road and look over in the ditch, where is the motorcycle going to go? In the ditch, of course. SERIOUSLY???????? I have ridden motorcycles my whole life and my Harley-Davidson would continue to go straight down the road.

I don't mean to bring up and old thread but I just couldn't help it when I read that ridiculous statement.

r/DCP

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If your eyes are focusing on the OB and the eyes go there then how do you expect to hit the CB where you need to???

On the other hand, if your eyes are focusing on the CB how do you expect to hit the OB where you need to?

I don't know the answer. I try to keep the OB, CB and stick (especially its motion) in view throughout, with specific focus on the OB and CB at different parts of each stroke. Last focus on the OB unless it's a tricky hit.

pj
chgo

 

[Bob Jewett]

I think the best argument in favor of the OB last especially for players who are learning to aim is that they need the immediate feedback of how the cue ball lands on the object ball and the resulting direction of the object ball.

If you have addressed the cue ball properly (closely) and your bridge is solid and you don't have some goofy swoop in your stroke, you know exactly where you're going to hit on the cue ball.

 

[justadub]

I think the best argument in favor of the OB last especially for players who are learning to aim is that they need the immediate feedback of how the cue ball lands on the object ball and the resulting direction of the object ball.

If you have addressed the cue ball properly (closely) and your bridge is solid and you don't have some goofy swoop in your stroke, you know exactly where you're going to hit on the cue ball.

I see what you did there

 

[Pidge]

The object ball last ensures you don't stop at the cue ball... Or makes it easier to hit through the cue ball. Also, when you focus on the object ball last you have the cue ball and a section of the shaft on your peripheral vision making it easier to keep your alignment. When you focus on the cue ball, especially on long shots the object ball isn't in view and any slight movement can alter your alignment, so even though you are focusing and hitting where you want on the cue ball it can send it in a different direction than planned. Not only this but I personally find it very difficult to judge speed control when I can't see exactly how far away the object ball is. I'm sure it can be learned.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I see what you did there

Yes, I did.:groucho:

 

[Scott Lee]

This is nothing new Mike. I told this exact same thing when I came to your house all those years ago. Your eyes lead EVERYTHING at the pool table. The only exceptions to OB last are four shots...the break, a kick, a jump or a masse'. On those shots you look at the CB last. You can believe it or not...but science is tough to argue with. Why don't you ask your brother what he looks at. He plays waaaay better than you do!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I know its been about three years but I guess I just ran across this.

Your cue goes where your eyes go. This cant be a serious statement, can it???

If your eyes are focusing on the OB and the eyes go there then how do you expect to hit the CB where you need to???

It was explained to me this way. If you are driving a motorcycle down the road and look over in the ditch, where is the motorcycle going to go? In the ditch, of course. SERIOUSLY???????? I have ridden motorcycles my whole life and my Harley-Davidson would continue to go straight down the road.

I don't mean to bring up and old thread but I just couldn't help it when I read that ridiculous statement.

r/DCP

 

[Mikjary]

I look at the OB on a jump unless the blocking ball is close. I've been jumping full cue since the 70's.

Best,
Mike

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

The object ball last ensures you don't stop at the cue ball... Or makes it easier to hit through the cue ball.

It does?????

How does it ensure that?????

The more I read this forum the more I find what some prominent people in the pool world have told me - don't pay any attention to stuff you read on the internet.

r/DCP

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Why don't you ask your brother what he looks at. He plays waaaay better than you do!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I don't know about that. But I will admit it is frustrating to me that I don't seem to be able to get better and improve. Lately I've been racking and breaking 9-Ball racks to see what my runout percentage is on spreads I feel like I should run. Right now its about 33% and that's just not good enough. I am hoping to get it up to 50% but it doesn't look like that is ever going to happen.

r/DCP

 

[gregcantrall]

I guess i differ with most people on this. To me you have one target and one target only. Thats the spot on the CB that you want to hit with the tip your cue. To look at something other than that during the shot seems totally illogical to me.

I dont really know why this topic keeps being debated. Perhaps during the cold winter months alot of people/posters need something to occupy their time. It has always been and will always be personal preference.

DCP

I agree. My thread on experimentals looking at the cue ball while delivering the stroke, has a mountain of evidence that cue ball last works just fine. Rodney Morris, John Higgins and at times Ronnie O'Sullivan do just fine with cue ball last.

I would add a link but I am on my phone and not as smart as it is. Perhaps someone could help me out and link it.

 

[gregcantrall]

Just noticed the date on the original post

Here that I posted long ago.

I concur, it seems presumptuous to make such claims. I would as easily believe they can tell what they are thinking as they strike the ball.

CJ Wiley has given some insight into his aiming process in the Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.
He also expects to be able to speak with Johnny Archer and get some input from him as well. Good Stuff!:grin:

 

[Pidge]

It does?????

How does it ensure that?????

The more I read this forum the more I find what some prominent people in the pool world have told me - don't pay any attention to stuff you read on the internet.

r/DCP

I've never seen one person who hits by looking at the cue ball last have a fluent effective stroke. They tend to jab at it.... Have all kinds of head movement as they look up to try follow the cue balls path and in general aren't very good players. You will always find some cue ball lasters making it to pro.... They're a rarity. You don't agree because it isn't what you do. I have been paying attention to 'stuff on the internet' and it's made me realise people will argue the toss about subjects they know nothing about because it isn't what they do.

The cue ball is not the target. The object ball and pockets are the targets. An archer doesn't focus on his arrow. They just get in the way and stay in a person's peripheral vision. Much like the cue ball should on a regular shot.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I've never seen one person who hits by looking at the cue ball last have a fluent effective stroke. They tend to jab at it.... Have all kinds of head movement as they look up to try follow the cue balls path and in general aren't very good players. You will always find some cue ball lasters making it to pro.... They're a rarity. You don't agree because it isn't what you do. I have been paying attention to 'stuff on the internet' and it's made me realise people will argue the toss about subjects they know nothing about because it isn't what they do.

The cue ball is not the target. The object ball and pockets are the targets. An archer doesn't focus on his arrow. They just get in the way and stay in a person's peripheral vision. Much like the cue ball should on a regular shot.

I think you will see a lot of this from American pool players. Most of them never learned any kind of solid fundamentals. They have problems with simple shots and consistency and they look for a fix -- other than fixing their fundamentals.

They see someone like Bustamante with really goofy stuff going on in his approach and they say to themselves -- See, he is doing something special. That special thing is what I need. I won't address the cue ball in the middle to hit it in the middle. I'll address somewhere out in space and then do a goofy swerve on the final stroke.

Heaven help them if they actually pot the first several balls with their new-found "special fix".

They also think some kind of aiming system will cure their ills even if that system is not connected to reality.