The cb and ob are very close together....1/16th". To avoid a double hit is it legal to have the cue tip on the cloth near the bottom of the cb and swipe upwards? The swipe could be angled off or even straight up in order to avoid the chance of a double hit foul. Mitch
legal or illegal hit/shot
- Thread starter nine o nine
- Start date
I've seen people do this. I don't know how the rule reads, but I'd guess it is not a legal stroke. Looking forward to the answer.
double hit
The foul is called because of the direction that the cue ball goes after the hit.
If it is a double hit the CB direction is a give away if it was a foul or not.
read the description of the foul
The foul is called because of the direction that the cue ball goes after the hit.
If it is a double hit the CB direction is a give away if it was a foul or not.
read the description of the foul
Are you saying it is legal as long as there is no double hit?
Sorry
[]
If its not a double hit then what is the foul ?
Double hits.
You can judge if the hit was a double hit or no by the direction or reaction of the cue ball after the CB struck the object ball.
[]
If its not a double hit then what is the foul ?
Double hits.
You can judge if the hit was a double hit or no by the direction or reaction of the cue ball after the CB struck the object ball.
Last edited:
^^^^^ What he said, the cue ball never lies, the direction and action of the cue ball will tell you if its a good hit or not
I'll speak only about the WPA (world-standardized ) rules.
The upward swipe mentioned in post #1 is unsportsmanlike conduct, with the penalty to be determined by the referee (if there is one). Here's how that determination is made:
1. According to 6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct, unsportsmanlike conduct includes "changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot"
2. According to 8.2 Shot, a shot requires "a forward stroke motion of the cue stick."
This makes sense because players do not always have good control over the cue stick in such situations. When playing with frayed nerves under high pressure, it can be difficult to actually make a "forward stroke motion" and still only slightly move the CB. It's possible to seriously err in such conditions -- opening up a shot for your opponent -- whereas just lifting the tip or tapping or touching some portion of the CB is done more easily.
The upward swipe mentioned in post #1 is unsportsmanlike conduct, with the penalty to be determined by the referee (if there is one). Here's how that determination is made:
1. According to 6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct, unsportsmanlike conduct includes "changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot"
2. According to 8.2 Shot, a shot requires "a forward stroke motion of the cue stick."
This makes sense because players do not always have good control over the cue stick in such situations. When playing with frayed nerves under high pressure, it can be difficult to actually make a "forward stroke motion" and still only slightly move the CB. It's possible to seriously err in such conditions -- opening up a shot for your opponent -- whereas just lifting the tip or tapping or touching some portion of the CB is done more easily.
First off, we need to know what rules you are playing under. APA and some other leagues do not allow for this type of hit as it is not a forward stroke, which is the only stroke they consider to be legal. MO8 allows you to stroke normally with no fear of double hit if the balls are within a cube of chalk's length apart. Balls touching can't be double hit unless you are accelerating still after making the first contact.
Secondly, though what you say above is 100% true a normal stroked shot it is not true on a stroke like this. A stroke like this you will never know because you are not hitting the ball hard enough for it to actually go the carom path enough to tell. If you are, I would say it was a double hit because you are hitting more of the cue ball then this stroke actually calls for and thus you are not going to get the tip out of the way as it goes up the ball. Keep in mind, if they are 1/16th apart then you have to hit less then that of the ball or it will hit the OB and stop and you will hit it again.
Flip_dat_Quarta
Banned
From the WPA Rules
REF: http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#8.2
8.2 Shot
"A shot begins when the tip contacts the cue ball due to a forward stroke motion of the cue stick. A shot ends when all balls in play have stopped moving and spinning. A shot is said to be legal if the shooter did not foul during the shot."
The shot you are referring to does not have a "forward stroke motion" therefore it is not a legal shot.
REF: http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#8.2
8.2 Shot
"A shot begins when the tip contacts the cue ball due to a forward stroke motion of the cue stick. A shot ends when all balls in play have stopped moving and spinning. A shot is said to be legal if the shooter did not foul during the shot."
The shot you are referring to does not have a "forward stroke motion" therefore it is not a legal shot.
In WSR, foul under Rule 8.2 as already quoted by At Large. In CSI/BCAPL/USAPL play, the shot is specificall identified as a foul under Rule 1-18 with an explanatory diagram included. Can't answer for other rule sets.
Buddy
Buddy
I see others beat me to it. I'm just saying it is not legal to hit the cue ball in this fashion.
There is at least one prior thread addressing this that I can recall. I believe the WPA rules say this type of stroke (if you can call it that) is a foul. This question presented to the APA League Officials however, results in a different answer. This shot is legal in the APA. I guess it depends where and when you do this. Unless it's the APA, probably much safer to avoid this
Thanks gentlemen. You've settled a discussion for which I didn't know the answer. A FORWARD stroke is a stroke according to most every rule set ....not a swipe, simple. In 14.1 a tip touch foul is often seen as a strategy after an opponent makes the first foul of a three strike foul. Mitch
From CSI's rules (BCAPL and USAPL):
1-18 Legal Stroke
You must use a legal stroke. Any lifting, sideways, or other brushing motion of the cue, such that the force that propels the cue ball does not primarily result from a forward motion of the cue as defined under “Legal Stroke”, is a foul.
I've seen it argued sooo many times. Mostly in bars. Surprised to see it here. It's not a legal shot. Can't sweep the ball.
Didn't read the thread but I am confident rules were cited from several bodies that make rules.
Some will call it a foul straight out, others will call it unsportsmanlike. Either way, not legal.
.
Didn't read the thread but I am confident rules were cited from several bodies that make rules.
Some will call it a foul straight out, others will call it unsportsmanlike. Either way, not legal.
.
Of note - BCAPL and WPA have rules for this, and other league might also...but APA does not specifically cover this. If someone does this in APA league, it is not a foul if you go by the letter of the law. Best action would be to let it go and bring it up with the league operator later to see if it can be covered by a "local bylaws" rule. Otherwise you're just stuck arguing with APA players who probably have never played in another league format.
Last edited:
Sorta like the first time you (the collective you) tried to pull out a jump cue in the APA, man, what a night mare that was.
It's a good thing to learn the rules that you might encounter playing in a league such as the APA, after all, there are some differences and some things you just wouldn't expect. I for one, think learning the differences is a good thing.....
so you can throw them up in your opponents face when they're acting like a dick
If the requirement of a stroke is a forward movement of the cue, then how is a vertical masse shot not a foul?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk