Why 8 ball can be such a great game .
- Thread starter cueenvy
- Start date
Would that 13-1 odds be for rotation pool according to Fargorate?
Even if not, those ratings indicate that he really gets dominated if they play rotation but he has a better chance playing 8-ball.
I agree with cueenvy in that 8-ball is better than handicap rotation when it comes to inviting lower tiered players to play against the world's best.
For one, it's still a complete game with everyone playing on the same rules. And it doesn't make it impossible for the pro speed player to win. Personally, when I'm out at the pool hall with friends who aren't as into the game as myself, we are always playing 8-ball. There's much more opportunity for defensive play and to pocket more balls on their part.
No one wants to come out and watch runs of rack after rack, and when they are at the table they have to kick out of a safe. At least with alternate break 8-ball, they can steal a few and feel successful/entertained.
The IPT was on to something when they had pro 8 ball as the game of choice. Much more inviting to the general public.
Fargo ratings are based upon the results of 8-ball, 9-ball, or 10-ball games played on either 9-foot or 7-foot tables. Source http://fargorate.com/#faq
Those odds are valid for any game, 8-ball, 9-ball, or 10-ball.
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I can't comprehend how those odds could be equal between a 10-ball nine foot table match and an 8-ball 7 foot table match. 10-ball is clearly more difficult than 8 ball.
Thanks for the clarification on Fargo taking into account 8 ball into their ratings. I wasn't aware of that.
But that seems to be a small flaw in the ratings if the odds are blanketed across all three game types.
Seems there would have to be an adjustment for 8 ball which would lead to cueenvy's main point, that 8 ball is a great game for closing the gap in the odds between pro and non-pro.
I also wish Fargo rate took into account Dr. Dave's table difficulty factor and weighted the results accordingly. But I'm aware that information is tough to extract out of tournament directors.
Some guy named Orcullo just lost 7-5 to Travis Anderson whom I'm sure is a pro and somehow is the favorite in this silly bar game of 8 ball. This is a great event I've watched for a couple years...nice to see the upsets.
Mark Twain said statistics are the biggest lie. Fargo ratings are irrelevant to predicting the outcome between a strong amateur player vs a higher raked player with alternating break in small table 8 ball. The sample size for the amateur is too small to project his best game on the more level playing field.
Mark Twain said statistics are the biggest lie. Fargo ratings are irrelevant to predicting the outcome between a strong amateur player vs a higher raked player with alternating break in small table 8 ball. The sample size for the amateur is too small to project his best game on the more level playing field.
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8ball will always be the most popular game ever played on a pool table!.. Why, because the entire world knows how its played!
Too bad they all play by different rules:boring2:
I dont understand why so many people dislike 8 ball or call it the "game with the most luck". I would argue that 9 ball involves more luck than 8 ball. No matter what rule set we play by in 8 ball I can only win after I have made my entire group, I cant shoot an early 8 ball combo for a win. I also can not win by making just 1 ball, I cant win because my opponent ran the first 8 then missed the 9 leaving it for me to make. I also need to call my pocket in 8 ball, I cant hit a ball hard then watch it carom off another ball into a non designated pocket or have it accidentally pocket another ball so I can continue my turn at the table. Just sayin is all. 
Mike Page can explain it better than I can. But here's the idea. If you are twice as good as me playing 10 ball on a 9 ft table, and I am twice as good as my wife playing 8 ball on a 7 ft table, then, on average, you are 4 times as good as my wife playing whatever game on whatever sized table.
The difficulty of the game and toughness of the table size are canceled out in the mathematics because BOTH players are subjected to the same conditions. Either I beat you or you beat me. That's all that matters.
Coz the larger data sample leads to greater accuracy?
Because- in general-when people contend it is a crap game, they mean for pros it is no good. Too easy.
for the rest of the world, it is fine.
bang away.
like john lennon used to say about pool : i just love to watch em roll. I have bee told his hi run was 2... Balls...and one was the cb...twice.
for the rest of the world, it is fine.
bang away.
like john lennon used to say about pool : i just love to watch em roll. I have bee told his hi run was 2... Balls...and one was the cb...twice.
I dont understand why so many people dislike 8 ball or call it the "game with the most luck". I would argue that 9 ball involves more luck than 8 ball. No matter what rule set we play by in 8 ball I can only win after I have made my entire group, I cant shoot an early 8 ball combo for a win. I also can not win by making just 1 ball, I cant win because my opponent ran the first 8 then missed the 9 leaving it for me to make. I also need to call my pocket in 8 ball, I cant hit a ball hard then watch it carom off another ball into a non designated pocket or have it accidentally pocket another ball so I can continue my turn at the table. Just sayin is all.
Which game am I more likely to win?
18 holes at Pebble Beach versus Tiger or 18 holes at Big Willies miniature golf?
Of course the size of the table, the pocket difficulty, rails and game played matter. In most cases the more difficult the game and equipment,the more the difference in skill is rewarded. 8 ball , short race, short table , alternating break anybody who can runout could beat anybody. Players lose just by breaking dry.
And wasnt the csi pro event last year illustrative of the fact that pros will run out pretty much every time?
Not saying they still don't win most of the time, buy there's been alot of upsets with this format at Chinook Winds. Billy Thorpe just beat Cory who won it last year. Fargo would predict it's maybe 5 to 1 to happen. I know a player like Thorpe isn't as big an underdog as people think in this event.
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At CSI the pro vs pro matchups were a breaking contest. Those guys ran out from everywhere. I have been watching those taped matches with Shaw, Orcullo and other elites lately because there barbox events here this time of year. I didn't watch the event live to see any upsets, if there werw any.
Chinook this year already saw Cory, Orcullo and Morris upset. It makes for a very interesting tournament. Taylor Anderson has run over several top players and is undefeated.
Chinook this year already saw Cory, Orcullo and Morris upset. It makes for a very interesting tournament. Taylor Anderson has run over several top players and is undefeated.
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2015 US Open 8-Ball Championship (7-footers) -- 52% B&R for the 233 streamed games (17 matches).
2014 CSI Invitational 8-Ball Championship (9-footers) -- 54% B&R for the 218 streamed games (15 matches).
[Both events played with the Magic Rack and an open table after the break.]
Whic is notably higher than say a U.S. open 9b b/r%, right? As in ~20%?
Yes. For the last 5 US Open 9-Ball Championships combined -- 22% B&R for the 3,047 streamed games I watched.
A greenie for you!!!