Lowest deflection shaft

[9Ballr]

If someone was gonna buy a LD shaft purely on the lowest deflection and not what feels the best, what one would you buy at 12.5 mm or bigger? The lowest deflection # is only parameter that matters!
Thanks a lot

I think Predator is going to get the win on this but you might also want to try the Barioni shafts.
Also remember to use a hard tip for the ultimate lowest deflection.
You can get a mediocre performance on any shaft with soft tips.
Personally love the brown Kamui hard and the Wizard, but that's another thread...lol

 

[KMRUNOUT]

KMRUNOUT: If you've played a lot ... where does a Mezz WX900 come in?
It's 12mm which I consider the smallest I would ever go.

That one I have not had the chance to try. I will certainly try it out at the Super Billiards Expo. I've tried the WD700. The play and hit was great. Feels more like a solid maple shaft. Not surprisingly, squirts considerably more than Predator or OB. Sort of a mid-squirt shaft. Would probably be awesome for someone who really hates the feel of LD but wants a bit more "performance". Also the Mezz build quality is superb. Very well made stuff.

KMRUNOUT

 

[HawaiianEye]

That one I have not had the chance to try. I will certainly try it out at the Super Billiards Expo. I've tried the WD700. The play and hit was great. Feels more like a solid maple shaft. Not surprisingly, squirts considerably more than Predator or OB. Sort of a mid-squirt shaft. Would probably be awesome for someone who really hates the feel of LD but wants a bit more "performance". Also the Mezz build quality is superb. Very well made stuff.

KMRUNOUT

I don't know the LD characteristics of the 700 shaft, but I have hit a few balls with one and it feels real good and moves the cue ball nicely.

Several of the highest caliber players here are using that shaft. They all switched from Predators.

 

[9Ballr]

I prefer the FAT shaft because I used a closed bridge and played with a 14mm shaft my entire life. I prefer the feel of the fatter shaft in my bridge.

Plus 13mm shafts are great.
I don't know why the trend over the last few years has been to go more narrow. Seems unnecessary to me, I've used shafts down to 11.5 and never noticed any more action on the cue ball. Wide shafts are great to have if you use a closed bridge and there is literally no sacrifice in play.
A nickel/dime shape is still a nickel or dime shape and that's what touches the cue ball and only for a split second.
I don't know how big the actual touch surface is but it's gonna be so close to being the same that you may as well go with comfort.
Which is yet another reason I simply don't use LDs any more.

 

[KRJ]

Plus 13mm shafts are great.
I don't know why the trend over the last few years has been to go more narrow. Seems unnecessary to me, I've used shafts down to 11.5 and never noticed any more action on the cue ball. Wide shafts are great to have if you use a closed bridge and there is literally no sacrifice in play.
A nickel/dime shape is still a nickel or dime shape and that's what touches the cue ball and only for a split second.
I don't know how big the actual touch surface is but it's gonna be so close to being the same that you may as well go with comfort.
Which is yet another reason I simply don't use LDs any more.

The narrow shafts at 11.75 produce less squirt. It's just physics... 11.75 is less weight and mass at contact with the cueball. I don't use 11.75 for "more" action, I use for less cueball deflection. Personally, how much action does one need on a bar box

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I don't know the LD characteristics of the 700 shaft, but I have hit a few balls with one and it feels real good and moves the cue ball nicely.

Several of the highest caliber players here are using that shaft. They all switched from Predators.

I agree with that assessment. Having replaced a tip on one, I must say what really stood out to me was the build quality. When I test drove one, it seemed to play nice, hit awesome, and generally have a nice solid feel. I only tried it on a 7' table. It seemed to deflect pretty clearly more than something like Predator, but much less than standard maple. I'm sure this would work very well for lots of people.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Johnboy73]

I've tried pretty much every shaft mentioned in this thread. I don't know why people are having such trouble answering what seemed like a pretty straightforward question. Of course there are many parameters that make a shaft "good", or "effective". Some of those parameters are about the person using it. Regarding *only* low squirt characteristics, the answers are pretty easy.



Predator 314-3 is going to be the lowest. The OB1+ is pretty close, as is the OB Classic. I would put them right in that order. This is as far as current production stuff is concerned.



For some reason, Meucci and Tiger make claims about their products being "the lowest". They are mistaken. I literally proved to the Tiger guys at their booth at the expo that my 314-2 had less deflection than their corresponding shaft. The tiger shafts have other qualities that make them very nice. They hit great and have good feel and build quality. I really don't understand why Tiger wouldn't emphasize these things, rather than make demonstrably false claims that they can't support. As for Meucci, I loved the Pro shaft. Hit very nice, played great, and was low deflection for sure. Was it as low as a 314-2, or 314-3? No. Clearly not. But it played fantastic and would be a good choice for many people based on its other qualities.



Hope this helps.



KMRUNOUT

Thank you. How about the Vantage?

 

[greyghost]

I've tried pretty much every shaft mentioned in this thread. I don't know why people are having such trouble answering what seemed like a pretty straightforward question. Of course there are many parameters that make a shaft "good", or "effective". Some of those parameters are about the person using it. Regarding *only* low squirt characteristics, the answers are pretty easy.

Predator 314-3 is going to be the lowest. The OB1+ is pretty close, as is the OB Classic. I would put them right in that order. This is as far as current production stuff is concerned.

For some reason, Meucci and Tiger make claims about their products being "the lowest". They are mistaken. I literally proved to the Tiger guys at their booth at the expo that my 314-2 had less deflection than their corresponding shaft. The tiger shafts have other qualities that make them very nice. They hit great and have good feel and build quality. I really don't understand why Tiger wouldn't emphasize these things, rather than make demonstrably false claims that they can't support. As for Meucci, I loved the Pro shaft. Hit very nice, played great, and was low deflection for sure. Was it as low as a 314-2, or 314-3? No. Clearly not. But it played fantastic and would be a good choice for many people based on its other qualities.

Hope this helps.

KMRUNOUT

Bob may be a legend in the industry and has done tons for the sport, but he's been using marketing and lying about things for years.....the red dot was nothing special, just a grain orientation indicator....been done for decades by players before that....

didn't invent anything laminated....none of the production companies invented that for cues...at a minimum Harvey Martin did (along with coring) and if harvey didn't, then it was B. Fink........

buy an LD shaft made by a custom maker out of solid wood....Mr. Jewitt is correct. tho I will add you can go higher than 11mm if you go ferruleless as its not necessary on a shaft to begin with, just as a joint collar is not necessary on the joint of the cue.

-regards
Greyghost

 

[Johnboy73]

If one gets a shaft, lets say an OB Classic Plus, for example, and turns it down to 12.25 - 12.5,will squirt lessen?

 

[bbb]

If one gets a shaft, lets say an OB Classic Plus, for example, and turns it down to 12.25 - 12.5,will squirt lessen?

i would say yes since there is less end mass

 

[Baxter]

KMRUNOUT: If you've played a lot ... where does a Mezz WX900 come in?
It's 12mm which I consider the smallest I would ever go.

I play with the WX900. I've previously used the Tiger Pro X, OB2, and Bob Danielson SS360/2 on my playing cue for a decent period of time. I spent years searching for the perfect shaft for me, and the 3 I tried played good but I knew there had to be something better out there for me.

My friend got the WX900. One day at the pool hall, he set his cue on the table and went to the bathroom. I picked it up, put the cue ball nearly on the short rail near the corner pocket, put an object ball half a diamond off the short rail and one diamond towards center from the corner pocket diagonal from the cue ball. I jacked up and shot that ball with low outside, speared center pocket (on a 4" pocket), and drew so deep into the corner that the cue ball spun out and hit the point on the side pocket! My buddy was walking back to the table when I hit that shot, and his only response was "holy shit!"

I was sold after one shot. I bought my shaft through Oscar. 30", 3/8x10 joint. I've been playing with it since last summer, and I'm not looking back at all. My search for the perfect shaft for me is officially (and finally) over.

 

[Straightpool_99]

If you think about it, the answer to the OP's question is fairly obvious. The Predator 314 shafts are mostly hollow with a lightweight ferrule. How are you going to get lower deflection than those at the same diameter? Filling the shaft with helium? (That was not a serious suggestion, btw). You can't really hollow out the cue that much more without problems with feel and durability. Any wooden shaft is bound to deflect more than this. We'll have to wait and see if the Predator carbon offerings will outdo the wooden ones. You could of course turn the 314 down to 12.5, if that is your preference.

 

[9Ballr]

The narrow shafts at 11.75 produce less squirt. It's just physics...

I've never noticed that.
But hey, maybe that's why I hate all this stupid LD crap and only play with SOLID maple shafts.....lol....I don't do any worse than any of the LD guys that I play every night.
With the SOLIDS I ever have to change my play, can feel the shots, love the feel of the actual shaft, very natural angle - to me - when shooting down table with hard l/r screw (english)......too many benefits to mention.....

 

[LAMas]

I've tried pretty much every shaft mentioned in this thread. I don't know why people are having such trouble answering what seemed like a pretty straightforward question. Of course there are many parameters that make a shaft "good", or "effective". Some of those parameters are about the person using it. Regarding *only* low squirt characteristics, the answers are pretty easy.

Predator 314-3 is going to be the lowest. The OB1+ is pretty close, as is the OB Classic. I would put them right in that order. This is as far as current production stuff is concerned.

For some reason, Meucci and Tiger make claims about their products being "the lowest". They are mistaken. I literally proved to the Tiger guys at their booth at the expo that my 314-2 had less deflection than their corresponding shaft. The tiger shafts have other qualities that make them very nice. They hit great and have good feel and build quality. I really don't understand why Tiger wouldn't emphasize these things, rather than make demonstrably false claims that they can't support. As for Meucci, I loved the Pro shaft. Hit very nice, played great, and was low deflection for sure. Was it as low as a 314-2, or 314-3? No. Clearly not. But it played fantastic and would be a good choice for many people based on its other qualities.

Hope this helps.

KMRUNOUT

I concur.
I shoot with a Z2 and had to sand my Tiger down to 11.5mm to get less squirt.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Thank you. How about the Vantage?

Totally forgot the Vantage. That one might actually have lower deflection than the 314-3. Especially when you hit the ball hard. I've played around with one and when you really want to load up the ball with english at a firm speed, it is insane!! I just got a 314-3 myself. Played around with the Predator tip. Pretty sure that is getting replaced asap. The shaft played a bit weird. At slow and medium speeds the deflection was very very low. At higher speeds it seems the deflection is higher...more than a 314-2. Kinda odd. Not exactly consistent. The Vantage seems more even.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

If one gets a shaft, lets say an OB Classic Plus, for example, and turns it down to 12.25 - 12.5,will squirt lessen?

Yes. My 314-2 is a bit smaller than stock and it definitely has less deflection.

Pretty much less mass equals less squirt.

KMRUNOUT

 

[LAMas]

The narrow shafts at 11.75 produce less squirt. It's just physics... 11.75 is less weight and mass at contact with the cueball. I don't use 11.75 for "more" action, I use for less cueball deflection. Personally, how much action does one need on a bar box

A turned down to a smaller diameter shaft will be more flexible as well.

 

[ENGLISH!]

When comparing at soft & medium speeds (relative terms), one needs to keep swerve in mind.

At high speed the spin will not be able to grab & take, so it will be taken out of the picture.

Hitting left or right of center on the equator of the ball with a not truly level cue stick will get swerve on the ball at the lower speeds...

& even if the ball does not curve back the spin can be 'cancelling out' or retarding the amount of lateral squirt.

I've found that hitting a touch above the equator with that ever slightly angled cue stick to yield more true squirt as I think the ball torques into a more 'perfect' spin on the vertical axis.

just some thoughts to think about.

 

[M.G.]

Yes - and this is why I think we need to do deflection / squirt measurements very differently:

- 2 kind of levels of cue: perfectly level stick, then slightly angled
- 3 speeds, slow, medium, high.
- overhead camera
- measure maximum distance off straight line during the travel to OB and measure distance off at impact to OB

 

[Drop The Rock]

I have hit with each of the shafts below. 5/5 is lowest observable deflection by me.

OB 2 11.75mm=5/5
Predator Z2 11.75mm=5/5
Mezz Wx900 12mm=4.5/5
Predator 314-3 12.75mm=4.25/5
OB Classic+ 12.75mm=4.25/5
Mezz HPII 12.5mm= 4/5
Tiger Ultra LD 12.75= 3.75/5
Mezz WX700 12.5mm=3.75/5
Maple Shaft 12mm 1" Ferrule 3/5

I don't know enough about the vantage shaft to make any observations.

If this post is purely hypothetical and based on the lowest deflection at 12.5mm+ then a 314-3 or OB Classic+ at 12.5mm is going to be the lowest deflection at that diameter.

I'd go with Mezz for feel and Predator or OB for LD.