Is there an established system for discussing stroke speed?

[ENGLISH!]

Ball Click
You hear the stroke, it's priceless when you know how to use it.
The sound and feel work together rather than just one on it's own.

Standing over the shot feeling the weight of the cue, sliding the cue back and forth through a soft bridge, just gearing up for the proper click.

Go in any pool hall, turn your back and just listen. You can tell where the players are that are hitting the balls correctly and where the inconsistent slammers are.
Use your hearing to help bring out your natural.

It's different than rail speed and very easy to learn.

Grip pressure and backswing. Nobody can teach you this. You have to learn what works for you. Many good players will tell you that they control speed by aplying different pressures on their grip.

And now, I am waiting for a new "experiment" by "az science guys" And the results of the experiment : "Grip pressure HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SPEED CONTROL"

Pls, don't "buy" that stuff. It will hurt your game.

Play well

To answer the question, there is not a set standard for what is consider a slow, med, or fast stroke speed.

I find it do It interesting the need to put a number with a speed. Like this 1,2,3 and so on.

What's a the the difference between a stroke speed for say a 2 stroke speed and say for a 2.25 stroke speed? How do you know which to use when?

You cannot set a standard for stroke speed. There is way too many types of shots, table conditions and so on.

So, what about a stun shot? Fast stroke, and done right the CB stops dead.

How do you tell someone what speed of stroke to do that shot with?

You can't.

While some players may be able to use a gauge of the cb traveling up and down the table by itself and transform that to a ball pocketing situation with position, most players can't. I know I can't.

If you're coaching a player and, as in the OP's post, you want to tell him to hit the ball softly, give him more information. You can say something like --- just barely get the object ball to the pocket --- that soft.

Coaching players also means understanding them and being able to relate to what their frame of references are. Often it will take a few tries to get on the same wavelength.

TAR Podcast #22 with Johnny Archer and Francisco Bustamante, 59.30 min.

I guess Francisco Bustamante and Alex Pagulayan also have no idea how wrong they are ?

If your method works for you, that's fine. But most top players will tell you that they control speed with their grip. If they want to speak about stuff like that......

Stroke speed is impossible to learn through written explanation or verbal communication, you may as sing underwater.

Hitting a ball up and down the table will not teach you stroke speed, table speed, maybe.

Once you have established a solid foundation and are accurate to your strike point, Stroke Speed is on top of the list.

All tables and conditions will vary and some could be extreme. It's usually the players that find their speed for the conditions presented to them that come out ahead.

Finding the speed of a table is simple stuff, controlling your speed for those conditions is another story.

To say speed control is crucial is an understatement, it's almost a crime.

When the cue ball collides with an object ball from full ball to any angle with different types of strokes such as a stun, draw, follow, kill, stun draw, float, stun follow, natural roll, to name a few ; with any spin, dead ball, inside or outside, extreme spin or an eyelash, your speed must be in control.

Learning stroke speed can get very intense. It may very well be the single part of your game that will truly make you a player, when you control the cue ball you are a player, it's as simple as that. Aiming and pocketing balls is easy to learn compared to the motor skills of speed.

The only way to learn stroke speed is to either play for thousands of hours, or do speed drills and play for thousands of hours.

There are 10 drills that I know for speed technique. When executed properly in increments of 3 and 4 you can master your speed control, follow stroke is an 18 point drill.Grip and bridge changes play a big part of your technique and ape index which opens up your flow.

Once learned you will be able to hit a layup or send the cue ball 20 ft into position, with any stroke at will.

If you want to learn table speed; hit the balls back and forth, learn the rails that are fast, slow or dead, playing long or short. Then get intense and learn stroke technique and speed control and play pool.

Sincerely: SS

The above is where the real insight is.

I did not quote my own posts as they are longer, but I say much the same thing & go more into examples of why assigning designations is basically useless.

Best Wishes for All.

PS1 Oh, some want less "negativity". They see criticism in what they use because they paid to be taught such as "negativity". They do not see the criticism of what rather many see as 'false' as constructive positive criticism. The only way that I know of is to HAMB or hit a wide series of SHOTS that are designed as drills. Simply rolling the ball at 5 different lengths up & down a table is not going to teach speed control in any effective manner, at least not IMO & that of others.

 

[GoldCrown]

While I wouldn't call it "rather many", there are certainly stroke speeds that are less than a "1 speed". We call them "finesse" speeds, and utilize a separate skill in shooting these shots. You really should stay out of threads you know nothing about. You're, once again, the principal "Negative Nellie" in a thread where there is overwhelming support for a system that is not only accurate and repeatable, but to applicable to any poolplayer, on any table. This is based on their personal experience, rather than 'blindly' buying into my gobbledegook!

This what got you banned recently Rick.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I worked with Scott Monday and focused on mechanics and speed control. Was a refresher course. We worked on the Finese stroke . It is a must have. Communicating it could not be simpler. May I suggest to anyone not familiar with Scotts system to learn it and then comment. Give it a try. It's as easy as 123. The system should be the standard.
Do yourself a favor and learn it real time. Take Scotts course. You'll learn the drill/system.... and you will play better pool

 

[ENGLISH!]

Pro Golfers play for more then $1,000,000.00 dollars every week.

I know golf & pool are not the same, but they have some similarities.

Golf has different clubs with different lengths & lofts designed to hit the ball to different distances with the same force of swing. Because the best golfers know, to the yard. how far they hit each club there are times when the yardage they want to hit the ball is between the yardage of two clubs. When that happens they have a decision to make. They can take the longer one & try to take something off of it or they can take the shorter one & add to it.

They can do this because they do NOT normally swing at 100% of their ability but instead swing at about 85% of their ability.

Golfers do NOT like shots that are in between their club yardages because they then must make an adjustment.

Those that take the longer club might shorten the length of their back swing just a bit & try to get 5-10 yards less out of the shot.

Those that take the shorter club might take the same full length swing but fire a bit faster & try to get 5-10 more yards out of the shot.

Then comes the less than full shots. This is the part of golf that I think relates to the subject of this thread.

For ease of discussion let's say the golfer is hitting his 50* wedge & he normally gets 100 yards out of his normal swing with that cllub & can modify it 5 yards in either direction by the methods I described above.

But... he (or she) now has shots that are less than 95 yards.

How does he adjust to hit a shot 75, 50, & 25 yards?

'NONE' of them take a full swing & apply different force levels.

They 'ALL' take different amounts of back swings for different length shots.

75 yards is a 3/4 swing. 50 yards is a 1/2 swing. 25 yards is 1/4 swing. ( Just examples & not specifics.)

They may use the visual hand of a clock on the face to reference the different lengths of arm swing or they may just make a bodily reference & FEEL where their arm swing needs to stop for the various yardages.

The point is that they do NOT make a full swing at 5 various forces or speeds of swing. That too often would result in a NON accelerating club face into CONTACT with the ball & that just does not work well & can result in the worst word a golfer can ever hear... a shank.

So... what they DO do is they take different length swings & still accelerate THROUGH the ball.

Golfers play for at least $1,000,000.00 in every tournament.

In the old days the method was not so defined. They simply did a similar thing by FEEL without the assign numbers & length of swing. I think they play just as good & probably better using that manner of play. They would say that the best at that had a a great TOUCH.

Naturally each individual can employ what ever method they chose, but it should be them that makes the choice based on 'all' or the information.

Best Wishes to ALL.

 

[GoldCrown]

Pro Golfers play for more then $1,000,000.00 dollars every week.

I know golf & pool are not the same, but they have some similarities.

Golf has different clubs with different lengths & lofts designed to hit the ball to different distances with the same force of swing. Because the best golfers know, to the yard. how far they hit each club there are times when the yardage they want to hit the ball is between the yardage of two clubs. When that happens they have a decision to make. They can take the longer one & try to take something off of it or they can take the shorter one & add to it.

They can do this because they do NOT normally swing at 100% of their ability but instead swing at about 85% of their ability.

Golfers do NOT like shots that are in between their club yardages because they then must make an adjustment.

Those that take the longer club might shorten the length of their back swing just a bit & try to get 5-10 yards less out of the shot.

Those that take the shorter club might take the same full length swing but fire a bit faster & try to get 5-10 more yards out of the shot.

Then comes the less than full shots. This is the part of golf that I think relates to the subject of this thread.

For ease of discussion let's say the golfer is hitting his 50* wedge & he normally gets 100 yards out of his normal swing with that cllub & can modify it 5 yards in either direction by the methods I described above.

But... he (or she) now has shots that are less than 95 yards.

How does he adjust to hit a shot 75, 50, & 25 yards?

'NONE' of them take a full swing & apply different force levels.

They 'ALL' take different amounts of back swings for different length shots.

75 yards is a 3/4 swing. 50 yards is a 1/2 swing. 25 yards is 1/4 swing. ( Just examples & not specifics.)

They may use the visual hand of a clock on the face to reference the different lengths of arm swing or they may just make a bodily reference & FEEL where their arm swing needs to stop for the various yardages.

The point is that they do NOT make a full swing at 5 various forces or speeds of swing. That too often would result in a NON accelerating club face into CONTACT with the ball & that just does not work well & can result in the worst word a golfer can ever hear... a shank.

So... what they DO do is they take different length swings & still accelerate THROUGH the ball.

Golfers play for at least $1,000,000.00 in every tournament.

In the old days the method was not so defined. They simply did a similar thing by FEEL without the assign numbers & length of swing. I think they play just as good & probably better using that manner of play. They would say that the best at that had a a great TOUCH.

Naturally each individual can employ what ever method they chose, but it should be them that makes the choice based on 'all' or the information.

Best Wishes to ALL.

What does this have to do with anything? How does this relate to describing, discussing speed control.

 

[ENGLISH!]

What does this have to do with anything? How does this relate to describing, discussing speed control.

The end result of speed control is the distance that the ball travels. There are various methods to get the ball to go different distances.

That is the subject of the thread & the question asked.

The answer to the question is that there is more than one 'established method' for discussing stroke speed.

But... none as been establish as "the best method" as some make it out to seem. Golf Pros that play for more than a million dollars in every tournament do NOT use a full motion at various forces to get different distances. They use different lengths of movement to get different distances. They also choke up to augment the implement & limit the length of movement.

If you have been actually playing for 50 years, then I would think that you would know that there is more that just the one method that someone has contrived.

What is the point of YOUR POST TELLING EVERYONE TO BUY LESSONS FROM A SPECIFIC INSTRUCTOR to try to learn a method that is dependent on a specific type of cue 'swing' & is simply assigning numbers to the armspeeds that will get the ball to travel a certain number of table lengths? Lag is speed 1, back to the head rail is 2, etc. even though no real shot is involved. Anyone can come up with their own designations for such. They might want to use letters like A speed, B speed, etc. or maybe Alyson speed, Buddy speed, etc. They might want different distances for the designations like 1 = one table length & 2 = lag speed, & back to the head rail is 3, etc. Also everyone does NOT use a full pendulum swing as the method of playing the game.

Best Wishes for You & All.

PS1 Thanks for the opportunity to reinforce some points & to make new ones.

PS2 How much did the refresher lessons cost you or were they complimentary in lieu of 'advertisements', etc.?

PS3 My civics teacher taught me to always consider any ulterior motives or agenda of those giving info & making recommendations.

 

[duckie]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. It is neither difficult nor impossible to teach these things through written communicaton, as well as verbal and physical demonstration. We have accomplished this with thousands of players. While I certainly agree with several points you made, I not only believe it can be taught...but do it on a daily basis.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

You can not teach feel. You may try to commincate as best possible what's is needed, but you can't teach feel.

You may say use x stroke speed, but how do you really know it's not x.xx speed stroke being used?

This is the problem with system instructors, they leave out feel, something that can't be taught only expernice can provide what is needed.

Pool is all about feel. A system user can not experience feel if they keep using any form of system and this includes a number system for stroke speed.

The only reason to have a number system for stroke speed is so you can say you taught something.

 

[duckie]

And sometimes the best course of instructing is just to say "you figure it out".

 

[ENGLISH!]

You can not teach feel. You may try to commincate as best possible what's is needed, but you can't teach feel.

You may say use x stroke speed, but how do you really know it's not x.xx speed stroke being used?

This is the problem with system instructors, they leave out feel, something that can't be taught only expernice can provide what is needed.

Pool is all about feel. A system user can not experience feel if they keep using any form of system and this includes a number system for stroke speed.

The only reason to have a number system for stroke speed is so you can say you taught something.

:thumbup2:

One can not really teach anything. One can only give cause hopefully to get an individual to think.

 

[ENGLISH!]

And sometimes the best course of instructing is just to say "you figure it out".

And sometimes the best answer to a question is to ask back another question.

When one figures something out for themselves it has much more meaning & becomes more foundational to them.

 

[GoldCrown]

If you have been actually playing for 50 years I would think that you would know that there is more that just the one method that someone contrived.

What is the point of your post telling everyone to BUY lessons from a specific instructor to learn a method that is dependent on a specific type of cue 'stroke' & is simply assigning numbers to the cue speeds that will get the ball to travel a certain number of table lengths?
PS Thanks for he opportunity to reinforce the points & to make new ones.

Playing for over 50...and realized to improve I need a pro instructor. For over 50 year I had no idea what a system is....or what a stroke is. So I learned from Scott. So I encourage those that want to learn to employ Scott as he is as good as it gets. His teachings work for me and yes I recommend him. Yes there are other instructors. Everyone should do their homework before employing one. No question about it. I had one before Scott...did not click. Instructors are not for everyone.Scott is not for everyone. But if a student is willing to work hard with a simplified system I do support, recommend and encourage S.L.
OK...bottom line to each his own.
I am not the worst player around and far from the best. I do not gamble, or do not play for anything other than time. I enjoy an informal match.To prove Scott's lessons/systems work (and I have nothing to prove) I'd offer you a 1pocket challenge to see your systems and would like your honest feedback if what I know is worth .02. Sorry we are not neighbors.
There other systems. The issue is having them standardized. I play with a guy that tells to use 2 speed for every shot unless something else is called for. I cannot translate that to the 2 speed Scott teaches. I thought the thread is How To Discuss/Describe stoke speed...maybe I'm misinterpreting the value.
You are entitled to your opinions. Nobody can take that away from you. And who is anyone to argue that. If you are happy with your pool performance...case closed. Whatever works for you(ENGLISH) is the best system. Fair enough? But how would translate what your system is if it is not standardized? Your 2 speed might be referring to a snail without airbrakes.
There are a lot of replies here. The OP can draw his conclusion. I'm curious what his thoughts are at this point.

QUOTE:
Is there any scale that exists for stroke speed people generally practice?
I was thinking something like this where you could practice it, get consistent, but then also be able to talk about it by saying... "Speed is about 3 diamonds."

EDIT: I'm not looking for advice for myself about stroke, I'm trying to figure out a way to break down the barrier of communication between players. Like if you're shooting with a friend and suggesting how to shoot something... When I say "Soft" it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to him. I have friends that play in league, and they've told me about stories when they say "Shoot soft" and the guy shoots way too hard. And that's because of different understandings of what "Soft" means. I was trying to find a way to solve the communication issue and be able to say "Shoot it with half tip forward, full ball, with about a 2 diamond stroke speed." Speed is the only thing that currently can't be communicated correctly from person to person.

 

[mattkenefick]

Playing for over 50...and realized to improve I need a pro instructor. For over 50 year I had no idea what a system is....or what a stroke is. So I learned from Scott. So I encourage those that want to learn to employ Scott as he is as good as it gets. His teachings work for me and yes I recommend him. Yes there are other instructors. Everyone should do their homework before employing one. No question about it. I had one before Scott...did not click. Instructors are not for everyone.Scott is not for everyone. But if a student is willing to work hard with a simplified system I do support, recommend and encourage S.L.
OK...bottom line to each his own.
I am not the worst player around and far from the best. I do not gamble, or do not play for anything other than time. I enjoy an informal match.To prove Scott's lessons/systems work (and I have nothing to prove) I'd offer you a 1pocket challenge to see your systems and would like your honest feedback if what I know is worth .02. Sorry we are not neighbors.
There other systems. The issue is having them standardized. I play with a guy that tells to use 2 speed for every shot unless something else is called for. I cannot translate that to the 2 speed Scott teaches. I thought the thread is How To Discuss/Describe stoke speed...maybe I'm misinterpreting the value.
You are entitled to your opinions. Nobody can take that away from you. And who is anyone to argue that. If you are happy with your pool performance...case closed. Whatever works for you(ENGLISH) is the best system. Fair enough? But how would translate what your system is if it is not standardized? Your 2 speed might be referring to a snail without airbrakes.
There are a lot of replies here. The OP can draw his conclusion. I'm curious what his thoughts are at this point.

QUOTE:
Is there any scale that exists for stroke speed people generally practice?
I was thinking something like this where you could practice it, get consistent, but then also be able to talk about it by saying... "Speed is about 3 diamonds."

EDIT: I'm not looking for advice for myself about stroke, I'm trying to figure out a way to break down the barrier of communication between players. Like if you're shooting with a friend and suggesting how to shoot something... When I say "Soft" it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to him. I have friends that play in league, and they've told me about stories when they say "Shoot soft" and the guy shoots way too hard. And that's because of different understandings of what "Soft" means. I was trying to find a way to solve the communication issue and be able to say "Shoot it with half tip forward, full ball, with about a 2 diamond stroke speed." Speed is the only thing that currently can't be communicated correctly from person to person.

Hey, OP here. I was out of town for a few days and just catching back up. Didn't realize this would pick up as much as it did. I'll try to catch up on this thread soon and see what I think.

I did notice someone mention golf above for a different reason, but it made me think about the way caddys and golfers discuss shots, topography of a shot, etc before shooting it. So if it's a putt with a sharp slope, I'm curious how they talk about it?

"It slopes here, so maybe putt at a speed that would ordinarily land you here at X, then the slope should take care of it."

I don't know; I don't golf. I wish I did.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Playing for over 50...and realized to improve I need a pro instructor. For over 50 year I had no idea what a system is....or what a stroke is. So I learned from Scott. So I encourage those that want to learn to employ Scott as he is as good as it gets. His teachings work for me and yes I recommend him. Yes there are other instructors. Everyone should do their homework before employing one. No question about it. I had one before Scott...did not click. Instructors are not for everyone.Scott is not for everyone. But if a student is willing to work hard with a simplified system I do support, recommend and encourage S.L.
OK...bottom line to each his own.
I am not the worst player around and far from the best. I do not gamble, or do not play for anything other than time. I enjoy an informal match.To prove Scott's lessons/systems work (and I have nothing to prove) I'd offer you a 1pocket challenge to see your systems and would like your honest feedback if what I know is worth .02. Sorry we are not neighbors.
There other systems. The issue is having them standardized. I play with a guy that tells to use 2 speed for every shot unless something else is called for. I cannot translate that to the 2 speed Scott teaches. I thought the thread is How To Discuss/Describe stoke speed...maybe I'm misinterpreting the value.
You are entitled to your opinions. Nobody can take that away from you. And who is anyone to argue that. If you are happy with your pool performance...case closed. Whatever works for you(ENGLISH) is the best system. Fair enough? But how would translate what your system is if it is not standardized? Your 2 speed might be referring to a snail without airbrakes.
There are a lot of replies here. The OP can draw his conclusion. I'm curious what his thoughts are at this point.

QUOTE:
Is there any scale that exists for stroke speed people generally practice?
I was thinking something like this where you could practice it, get consistent, but then also be able to talk about it by saying... "Speed is about 3 diamonds."

EDIT: I'm not looking for advice for myself about stroke, I'm trying to figure out a way to break down the barrier of communication between players. Like if you're shooting with a friend and suggesting how to shoot something... When I say "Soft" it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to him. I have friends that play in league, and they've told me about stories when they say "Shoot soft" and the guy shoots way too hard. And that's because of different understandings of what "Soft" means. I was trying to find a way to solve the communication issue and be able to say "Shoot it with half tip forward, full ball, with about a 2 diamond stroke speed." Speed is the only thing that currently can't be communicated correctly from person to person.

Now we are on to a real legitimate discussion of the issue & the thread topic & not advertising for lessons.

The issue is that there are so many different speeds that are necessary there is no vocabulary large enough to communicate the requirements properly within any prescribed 'system'.

I recommend a visual reference because that is what the shooter will ultimately have to learn to utilize when another is not giving directions & we are basically visual creatures, especially the males.

Or.. like Ms Crimi suggested soft, etc. but with added qualifiers like so that the cue ball does not get to the rail or so it only "rolls" 15 to 18 inches after contact.

When one is following nothing but a direction for a speed designation they are not really focusing on the end result. They are only focusing on a specific speed that has been put into their head. The responsibility for the shot has been taken away from the shooter & it has been put on the designation whether it was given by another or chosen by the shooter.

Defining table distances & assigning numbers are like Duckie said, just something to have to 'teach'. It's like assigning #1 to Red & #2 to Blue for the paint by the numbers method. There is no FEEL to blend Red & Blue & get a shade of purple....& certain shots require very different shades of purple.

I am very sorry for you that you struggled so much until you hooked up with Mr. Lee & I am also very glad that you hooked up with him & are satisfied with the results & your improvement. You & your needs fit his methods.

Lets's just say that those methods do not fit everyone.

We are all at very different levels of play & have different styles of play.

Best Wishes for You & for Mr. Lee too.

 

[fastone371]

Speed is as subjective to the individual as it is to the table & the weather.

To assign numbers to speed is futile IMO, especially if the defining parameter is the distance the ball travels on a table with no hitting of an object ball.

There are TOO many teaching contrivances, IMO. If one wants contrivance then they should design them themselves & they will be a more natural & individual fit.

The subconscious mind is an amazing entity & can do amazing things like deciding exactly what speed to hit a cut shot & go 3 rails to a spot while using outside running english. It might be 2.768 on any numbered scale. Who thinks that they can divide any scale of speeds down to that? The subconscious mind does not need or want numbers & they are road blocks in my opinion.

There are no REAL numbered speeds for that kind of operation. Yesterdays speed 2 on table x is not today's speed 2 on table z, at least not in the mind & arm that generate it.

A number would only be an approximation that might get one 'in the ball park. If one uses numbers in their conscious mind as it relates to the hit, one is putting up considerable road blocks for the subconscious mind, IMO.

That's how I see it with my nearly 50 years of experience playing the game.

Best Wishes to ALL,
Rick

PS Duckie/Greg often points out that the only true way to define speed for the science stuff is a distance per time frame of reference. soft, medium, hard, 2 speed , 3 speed, etc. means nothing. Is a 2 on a slow 9 ft. table the same as a 2 on a fast 7 ft. table? No it's not. Time & experience & the subconscious mind are the answers to speed control.

The number assignment to explain different speeds is a great way to communicate different speeds between players. The catch is that both players need to be familiar with that system. Maybe it is your 50 years of experience that blocks you from seeing this. I have been playing for just over 5 years now, I learned the numbered speed system many instructors teach and I practiced many speed drills, to the point that I wish we would lag for break rather than flip a coin. When I was more of a beginner there were many shots I would look at and decide I would use a 1 speed or a 3 speed, I dont need to do that as much anymore but occasionally I will fall back to that method of deciding how much speed I need to use. Every table I play on I lag a few times to get an idea of how fast the table plays compared to my home table which I am most familiar with, there are other things I test to determine this but that is the most basic and the first test I always make. The more I play the more natural the chosen speed for each shot is but it takes time and everyone has to start somewhere.

 

[fastone371]

What a waste of my valuable time reading this entire thread and listening to the same people argue with everyone. Not a total waste I suppose, I did learn that I will need to buy different cues depending on how far I want the cue ball to go though.:thumbup:

 

[ctyhntr]

There will be those who don't want to figure it out will always ask
what is the best chalk
what is the best cue
what is the best aiming system
what is the best ld shaft, never mind asking concept behind low deflection.

And sometimes the best answer to a question is to ask back another question.

When one figures something out for themselves it has much more meaning & becomes more foundational to them.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Hey, OP here. I was out of town for a few days and just catching back up. Didn't realize this would pick up as much as it did. I'll try to catch up on this thread soon and see what I think.

I did notice someone mention golf above for a different reason, but it made me think about the way caddys and golfers discuss shots, topography of a shot, etc before shooting it. So if it's a putt with a sharp slope, I'm curious how they talk about it?

"It slopes here, so maybe putt at a speed that would ordinarily land you here at X, then the slope should take care of it."

I don't know; I don't golf. I wish I did.

The thing about putting for different distances even on a flat green is that you do NOT make the same length stroke at different forces or speeds of movement for the different distances as that would make deceleration very very likely for many distances.

Try shooting arrows different distances straight out by pulling the bow string back the same length every time.

There is an over abundance of Kinetic Energy & Potential Force that is created & must then somehow be controlled if a different outcome is desired. If the outcome is small, then deceleration almost has to come into play for some of those. One can not do that with the bow & arrow but one can do it with their muscles.

I'll just stop there or I will wind up going off on the whole contrived 'pendulum' thing.

Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

What a waste of my valuable time reading this entire thread and listening to the same people argue with everyone. Not a total waste I suppose, I did learn that I will need to buy different cues depending on how far I want the cue ball to go though.:thumbup:

No offense... but it would seem that you do not understand what you read.

Either that... or you are just making a 'wise guy' crack to try to defend your side which you do not know how to defend.

I did NOT relate the different clubs in golf to playing pool at all. I explained how golfers get different distances out of the SAME club & why they do it that way as opposed to trying to vary the force based on the same length swing.

If that was the better method they would be using it because they are playing for more than $1,00,000.00 at every weekly tournament.

Just food for thought,

Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick

PS Take a page hole reinforcement donut & put it nearly straight out from a side pocket but 1/2 ball on the head string side. Place a ball on it & then go behind the string line & pocket the ball into the side pocket & lag the CB to the head rail. See how well you do & then do it from all across the table. how many speed variations do you think there will be between lag speed #1 & speed #2?

 

[ENGLISH!]

There will be those who don't want to figure it out will always ask
what is the best chalk
what is the best cue
what is the best aiming system
what is the best ld shaft, never mind asking concept behind low deflection.

And they will never 'paint' like an artist with FEEL.

They will apply the #1 red when the shot actually calls for purple slightly on the red side.

Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick

 

[mattkenefick]

So I did end up having time to read through all the pages, and boy, did that turn into an argumentative mess real quick.

There were a lot of valid opinions on both sides... but I'd say a lot more off-topic than anything else. There's great stuff in here about feeling stroke, lessons, etc. But the closest to the point was Scotty and Randy's system.

The idea being that if I needed to write down on a piece of paper how to hit a particular shot and hand it to someone (or a computer) to shoot, it'd be fairly accurate assuming we were speaking the same language on stroke speed. (lag system, diamond system, Scott+Randy, etc)

So.. the point of my original question was figuring out a good common ground language for speed, regardless of whether not both parties have to learn it first.

But anyway, all input is good. And as with any good discussion, it's bound to get heated from time to time.

 

[pwd72s]

Far as I'm concerned Jimmy Reid summed it up well in his instructional video when he said he could teach anything but speed.

It just takes time to develop a sense of speed, and speed is different with any table.

Soon as I develop that sense to my satisfaction I'll let you know.