Let me explain. If someone states something here they are being subjective. If ENGLISH (notice all capitals) states something it is objective. :wink2:
Stroke question
- Thread starter 9Ballr
- Start date
Let me explain. If someone states something here they are being subjective. If ENGLISH (notice all capitals) states something it is objective. :wink2:
You get it.
You can not really rehearse the actual stroke you will use once you are down on the ball as there is no resistance of the ball. You are doing 'whatever' as you build up to when you will make the actual stroke.
I stumbled onto no pre shot strokes a few years ago when trying & confirming much of what CJ Wiley was talking about when he was here. I liked the 'calm before the storm' so to speak & it has stuck.
Subjective preference or 'need' is certainly NOT the same as an objective universal "need".
All Best Wishes for You & Yours... & ALL.
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But Rick...nobody here really believes you can play at all. How about we set up a match between you and Keebie...according to you, you two guys should be pretty evenly matched. Plus, he lives pretty close to you, so it wouldn't be difficult to meet up with you. If you win, it would certainly bolster your claim that one-stroking is better! 
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Jburkm002...Actually there are 3 pauses that almost all good players do. One at the CB, prior to the final backswing (with the tip very close to the CB); another one at the end of the backswing; and a final one at the end of your stroke/swing (whether it's piston or pendulum). The length of time of these pauses occur ranges from very short to very long...it varies by the player. Even players who don't think they stop at the end of their backswing, actually do, and it can be proven via slow-motion video analysis (or, if they don't pause even 1/10 of a second, that is a bad habit that can use correcting...otherwise the forward stroke starts as a jerk). You cannot smoothly go backwards and forwards with the cue, without some sort of stop in between.
Warm up swings, with the eyes focused only on the CB, are for verifying aim point on the CB. The first stop at the CB, at the end of the warm up cycle, is to allow the subconscious brain to decide if you're "ready or not". Ready? Go. Not ready, don't shoot. I call this red light/green light. Either you're going to hit the CB on the next swing...or not. There is no maybe. If there's a maybe...you're not ready...don't shoot.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Warm up swings, with the eyes focused only on the CB, are for verifying aim point on the CB. The first stop at the CB, at the end of the warm up cycle, is to allow the subconscious brain to decide if you're "ready or not". Ready? Go. Not ready, don't shoot. I call this red light/green light. Either you're going to hit the CB on the next swing...or not. There is no maybe. If there's a maybe...you're not ready...don't shoot.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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But Rick...nobody here really believes you can play at all. How about we set up a match between you and Keebie...according to you, you two guys should be pretty evenly matched. Plus, he lives pretty close to you, so it wouldn't be difficult to meet up with you. If you win, it would certainly bolster your claim that one-stroking is better!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
It is amazing how you are authorized to speak for every single one of the thousands upon thousands of members & visitors of AZB.
Please show me where I said that he & I are pretty evenly matched & please explain how I could legitimately have said that since I have no idea of how good, average, or poorly he might play as I have never seen him play.
Good examples here, Sir.
Thanks in advance for providing that link where I said what you say that I said.
Vaya Con Dios.
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I like what Mark Wilson teaches. Get down, 2 practice strokes, pause at the cue ball to make sure your aim is how you want it, then back and stroke.
If it feels natural to you, don't change it. As long as you have everything lined up correctly, I don't see a problem.
I watched Nick Varner play back in 89' and he seemed to have a lil longer back stroke on his final stroke. It worked just fine for him and he won many World Titles.
Stick to what is Natural....
If that's what you like & are playing well doing it & are happy then that is all that matters.
We are basically doing the same thing from the point of your pause compared to when I first get down, but my 'pause' is probably a bit longer than yours since I am not taking those other strokes.
The thing that I've never really liked about an exact mechanical numbered method is that I think it can influence one to go whether things are right are not. I've seen rather many players that have done that & they seem to miss more than what I would call a natural player.
I'm not one that likes to get up & start over but I am starting to do that more often now when I realize that I have not done my new eye thing learned from Gene Albrecht. All I do keep is keep my feet set & raise my head & go down with the manual eye method.
Anyway, I am glad you have found something that you like & works well.
All Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick
Me? I'm not authorized to speak for anybody. That said, I know quite well how Keebie plays...and you've told us ad nauseum that you've played at a "pretty high level" for most of your 50+ years at the table. You've also stated that when you did play leagues you were always either the top player, or in the top rankings. Therefore, I surmised that you two would be a good match! Like in any matchup, if Keebie were to completely drill you, you guys could come up with some kind of handicap to make the game even!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
But Rick...nobody here really believes you can play at all. How about we set up a match between you and Keebie...according to you, you two guys should be pretty evenly matched. Plus, he lives pretty close to you, so it wouldn't be difficult to meet up with you. If you win, it would certainly bolster your claim that one-stroking is better!
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So when is the match up, and can we get it streamed?
Practise strokes is a bad term. I'm much prefer the term feathering. They are used to fine tune your aim on the white... Not the entire shot, just on the white. They make sure you are zoned in on the exact part of the white you wish to hit. It's is far easier to do this with small delicate movements... Or feathers than it is with big long practise strokes. It is natural to pull the cue back further on the final pull back. You aren't really gauging power when down... Our brains work that out before we get down mostly so it makes no sense to pull back when feathering as far as you intend to on the final stroke.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good post. I prefer to call them pre shot strokes.
I am fairly sure that I have seen feathering used to describe what the hand & wrist does to keep the cue 'level' on the back swing as in the phrase, feathering the cue.
That may have been a miscommunication by associated video or I may have taken it wrong.
In any case, there are some that have a death grip on the cue & do use large arm movements.
I think pre shot strokes covers them all.
You mention fine tuning the aim on the CB. I've found that no pre shot strokes & just holding the cue at the intended point works better than moving the cue, at least for me.
It gives an ongoing consistent visual message to the subconscious mind.
But... I have been playing for nearly 50 years & I have confidence in my stroke & it is rather grooved.
If one lacks confidence in their stroke, I can see where the pre shot strokes could yield some confidence that they are going to put the tip at the proper point & on the line. When I say confidence, I mean rooted deep down. I do Not mean to suggest that everyone that is taking pre shot strokes is not confident in their stroke. They are just using a different pre shot methodology than my no pre shot strokes method.
Best Wishes for You & Yours... & ALL.
Good post. I prefer to call them pre shot strokes.
I am fairly sure that I have seen feathering used to describe what the hand & wrist does to keep the cue 'level' on the back swing as in the phrase, feathering the cue.
That may have been a miscommunication by associated video or I may have taken it wrong.
In any case, there are some that have a death grip on the cue & do use large arm movements.
I think pre shot strokes covers them all.
You mention fine tuning the aim on the CB. I've found that no pre shot strokes & just holding the cue at the intended point works better than moving the cue, at least for me.
It gives an ongoing consistent visual message to the subconscious mind.
But... I have been playing for nearly 50 years & I have confidence in my stroke & it is rather grooved.
If one lacks confidence in their stroke, I can see where the pre shot strokes could yield some confidence that they are going to put the tip at the proper point & on the line. When I say confidence, I mean rooted deep down. I do Not mean to suggest that everyone that is taking pre shot strokes is not confident in their stroke. They are just using a different pre shot methodology than my no pre shot strokes method.
Best Wishes for You & Yours... & ALL.
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scott can speak for me in such situations all he dam well pleases......
i'll play you one pocket left handed, eyes closed every delievery on the 10ft in new orleans even.
or we can do some kiddy crap and we can play your favorite whatever on the bar box and I'll play right handed......
how ya like that Jack?
not wanting to or going to take your SS check man....it could be for dinner, we could just FILM it and post it.....
but if i win you gotta come on here and say "son of neil is my daddy"
-Greyghost
i'll play you one pocket left handed, eyes closed every delievery on the 10ft in new orleans even.
or we can do some kiddy crap and we can play your favorite whatever on the bar box and I'll play right handed......
how ya like that Jack?
not wanting to or going to take your SS check man....it could be for dinner, we could just FILM it and post it.....
but if i win you gotta come on here and say "son of neil is my daddy"
-Greyghost
i got 2 HD cams at the ready.....and i'll be on a mac.....anyone rememeber that one?
bout to brin it back to the main forum.....
I WILL say this... You seem to have many of the same issues that Neil does whether they are heredity related or not.
All Best Wishes for You & Yours... & ALL.
PS There was a time when I would very much have enjoyed to meet you & play a few games of whatever. That changed a week or so ago.
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Since this thread has turned into the usual crap, nobody will read and appriciate the above post. You do not need long practice strokes. All you need is small micro-strokes that confirm your alignment and aim. Then pull slowly back, pause and fire. If you take too many long practice strokes there is a chance you will move slightly. Also, if your cue is in constant motion you won't get the same amount of time aiming, as you will with the micro-strokes only. These let you concentrate on your aim for a longer period of time.
That last point is what I said a good while back. The cue set still on the line feeds the subconscious mind better than a moving cue that might be off very slightly one to the others & also as it relates to more time on the precise intended point of contact.
All Best Wishes for You & Yours...& ALL.
i'm never confirming alignment, only tip on ball....but what you and pidge describe.....is exaclty what keebalicious does.
Tho i think my tiny little movements back and forth in my opinion were developed (not on purpose) because for themost part.....i dont look at the cue ball at all (except for initial drop in)
i'm way back.....walk it in leading with the tip of the cue, back foot is gonna drag step right in liine with it.....
bringing down cue, and snaking in......like a duck dive....
all inline with shot line......going down, eyes on OB.....DOWN and hand on cloth.....eyes on CB.....POP POP POP.....eyes on OB.....pop pop pop.....pull back, slight pause and can even close my eyes without propbelms to runz de bawls.
Like ze germans
-Greyghost
well then your feeding your subconscious with your aim on cb..... I feed it my stroke.....
my subconscious doens't worry about that......it eats pattern play and provides mental strenght.
honeltly i can really give a hoot about aiming......i've said it many times in general....i love how many players blame "i saw it bad" on missing a shot, when odds are they either dont have a good stroke, or haven't a clue about alignment much less being properly aligned at all.
How often in your life do you ever blame things on "i saw it bad" lol......
that last quesiton isn't for english, this paragraph isn't.....but he can answer that last quesion i'm pretty sure in a good way....becausehe's been playing 50 years and such should be pretty old enough to comment how often in life he ever blamed his sight.....
but if you got eyes like milhouse, then i dont think you would be a fair question test subject......
all i know is thats how i think.....and when i was at Eddies last birthday with Grady and Radi back in 2004......the coke bottle glasses didn't seem to keep eddie from making some fantastic banks and showing off for a young kid best he still could....and boy he still could make a few of his "easy" ones roflmao
eye may even ask rob saez what he thinks.....(ins-eyed joke b/t rob and fiends...if ya dont know, you still wont know)
-Greyghost