I'd bet against almost anybody I haven't heard of playing the ten ball ghost on a diamond in a long race.
I've played well enough to beat the ghost at nine ball three or four times in a row, but lost probably 50 races to ten at ten ball on a tight table before I beat it.
Anyone betting they can beat the ten ball ghost on a tight table is probably at least short stop level in my experience.
Its tough...except for pros who would kill it almost every time on anything but a trick table.
I'm terrible and I can beat the 9 ball ghost most of the time, and play close to even with the 10 ball ghost.
I hate playing the ghost because it's a ton of re-racking balls.
This guy knows what he's saying. This is accurate based on my experience.
I'd bet against almost anybody I haven't heard of playing the ten ball ghost on a diamond in a long race.
I've played well enough to beat the ghost at nine ball three or four times in a row, but lost probably 50 races to ten at ten ball on a tight table before I beat it.
Anyone betting they can beat the ten ball ghost on a tight table is probably at least short stop level in my experience.
Its tough...except for pros who would kill it almost every time on anything but a trick table.
The length of the race is irrelevant if you are around 50-50 for each single game. You will be 50-50 for any length of match. The most accurate way to gauge your strength versus the ghost is to play for a long time and give the total scores (or the win ratio).... beat the 9 ball ghost in long races, like 10+, at least most of the time... ...
How close to pro player just by beating ghost on easy table? A long, long, longgggggg way. I can beat the ghost on an easy table and do not want to mess with any pro. When Joey Grey and I played, i lost, er got smoked 9-0. Yeah, I had felt a little pressure, and was down 4 or 5-0 before i even got out of my chair, but i only had 2 chances to even win a game and i blew it. Still, no chance to win. Id gamble on the ghost before i took the 7 and last 3 from any pro.
I know a few guys that can beat the ghost, but they don't fair so well in match ups against players that I consider good players but way below Pro speed and I do mean way below.
One of the guys gets the 7 ball from a top tier player in the area and they break even???
Amen to that. I played Tony Chohan once at family billiards in a tournament on really tight equipment. At that time I was beating the ghost pretty consistently in a race to 7 on a loose 9' table. I thought of myself as a B+/A- player.
QUOTE] I don't think the ghost is a good way to measure your game, I agree with the guy who posted "play someone who is known" then you can asses your skill.
Dennis O game Tony the 7,9,10 at Big Tymes. The first set was close.., the second set was a blow out, Tony had no chance. I couldn't believe it. Once Dennis got going he never missed and Tony came to the table to rack or kick.
I'm sure Tony can beat the Ghost, but Dennis is tougher.
Amen to that. I played Tony Chohan once at family billiards in a tournament on really tight equipment. At that time I was beating the ghost pretty consistently in a race to 7 on a loose 9' table. I thought of myself as a B+/A- player.
He beat me 9-0. I missed some shots because I wasn't used to the tight pockets, but if I had played my absolute best I think he would have still beaten me 9-2 or 9-3.
Joey ran his first 4 racks dropping the wing ball, one ball within a diamond of the lower left corner, and cueball cemter table behind head string. 4 racks almost identical. 15 minutes tops 4-0. Those guys are sick. Doesnt matter how well you play the ghost if you cant see a ball. Race to 9. I got 4 innings, one was playing a safe that he had to masse to get iut of. ( He hit it and safed me back), following inning gave him ball in hand from hos lockup. Brutal. So in essence i really had 2 innings on a race to 9. Rattled the 6 in my first trip to the table. Dont remember my other miss. Warming up i prolly ran out 4 or 5 racks in a row just throwing them out. Even caught a few eyes in the crowd. Did me little good. Once he put the 4 on me, i was mentally done. Thats what a pro can do that good players dont. Beat you before you even get to the table.
The length of the race is irrelevant if you are around 50-50 for each single game. You will be 50-50 for any length of match. The most accurate way to gauge your strength versus the ghost is to play for a long time and give the total scores (or the win ratio).
If you are 55-45 favorite for a single game, you become more and more the favorite as the length of the match increases. FargoRate has a calculator that shows you how much your chances improve for longer matches.
There are lots of people who can beat short stops, what level do you think that is?
What is short stop speed? B or B+?
Joey ran his first 4 racks dropping the wing ball, one ball within a diamond of the lower left corner, and cueball cemter table behind head string. 4 racks almost identical. 15 minutes tops 4-0. Those guys are sick. Doesnt matter how well you play the ghost if you cant see a ball. Race to 9. I got 4 innings, one was playing a safe that he had to masse to get iut of. ( He hit it and safed me back), following inning gave him ball in hand from hos lockup. Brutal. So in essence i really had 2 innings on a race to 9. Rattled the 6 in my first trip to the table. Dont remember my other miss. Warming up i prolly ran out 4 or 5 racks in a row just throwing them out. Even caught a few eyes in the crowd. Did me little good. Once he put the 4 on me, i was mentally done. Thats what a pro can do that good players dont. Beat you before you even get to the table.
The "able to run out most racks with ball in hand" level. I'd say solid to good B level. Some might call that A level. Whatever you call it, it's a pretty good player but not near a pro. Right around Fargorate 600, maybe a little lower.
Either:
1. You are not actually terrible.
or.
2. You can not beat the 9 ball ghost most of the time or play the 10 ball ghost even.
Terrible and these types of skill sets are mutually exclusive.
Or he thinks he gets ball in hand after every shot
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Compared to a pro player I am terrible. They can beat me easily, Compared to a banger I can hold my own. The comparison was made to a pro player. There are a lot of players out there that can beat me and I am not going to say I'm great at this game because I'm not.
Gotcha….Then I agree… You can be able to beat the ghost and still get destroyed by a top pro player. That is why I asked the question earlier about players such as Danny Smith or Shane McMinn.. GREAT players…… but can both be spotted by the TOP pro's in rotation games I'm sure…..
After watching Shane give Corey the 5 ball playing 10 ball it became quite evident that there is a huge difference in the elite top players and other pro players. That is why I think using some of the rating systems on AZ are to limiting.. not enough divisions to make the distinctions between top elite players, great pro players, pro players, and short stops.