According to the website
109,427 players
3,466,280 games
130 countries
And 6 years
Not in its infancy. It doesn't need time.
Just because you don't like the answer, doesn't mean it isn't correct
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BCA Nationals 8 Ball - Fargo Discrepancy
- Thread starter banditgrrr
- Start date
According to the website
109,427 players
3,466,280 games
130 countries
And 6 years
Not in its infancy. It doesn't need time.
Just because you don't like the answer, doesn't mean it isn't correct
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have analysis coming, and first up will be an analysis or who is the group of players who came in with a 525 starter-rating and no other information. How did they do as a group? What is our best guess of the over/under for their actual ratings? I will say right now that the answer is under 500. So if you went to your table for your first match and your opponent was 525 with no games, the chances appear to be better than 50% that player actually plays below 500 speed.
I'm not sure where the above statement comes from. But I will say if you take ANY tournament, no matter how even the field, and then you try to compute ratings just based on that tournament, the people who finish high in the tournament will appear to be WAY UP, well above their actual speed. This is a selection bias. It is a little like looking at the lottery ticket in your hand, computing just how improbably it was YOU had that exact number, and then being amazed you have it.
Consider this: Imagine a 512-player single elimination tournament where every player has the EXACT SAME SKILL. This is not hard to find. All we have to do is hold a coin-flipping tournament, with good coins, where WE KNOW everybody is the same. So everybody flips coins...first round, second round... At the end there is a winner,
one player won 9 flips in a row, has a 9 and 0 record
one who is 8 and 1
two who are 7 and 1
Someone coming considering there might be biased coins might choose to look at these four players and say look at how extraordinary their records are. The coins must be strongly biased.
But wait! Even with no bias to the coins, there WILL be a winner, and there WILL be a second place.
We must be careful we are not amazed by our own losing lottery ticket...
I would have to go back and find the quote but when the explanation by CSI was given why one bracket had 56% of the field in it, it was "because the people that were rated 525 were most likely 50 points too low anyways". I posted than that made no sense cause it was CSI that gave them the 525 starter rating. As a poster here basically said, they should have ranked them with a starter rating that put them higher up in the grouping. There is only one reason why they weren't. Also like the APA I believe never would start a male player as a 2, no male player should be given a starter rating of 400.
In a day and age where we have the first woman presidential candidate nominated by the Democratic Party, one should be careful about sexism statements. :embarrassed2:
Curious.
How many games do you have in FargoRate? What is your rating? How long have you experienced it in your league?
I read such things as, "I would never lose to a 400", and "no male should be given a starter rating of 400".
I would guess a lot of people making such statements do not know what a 400 level player is.
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Using the letter grade system of D to Pro, what is a 400, 525, 600 level player in letters ?
It strongly depends on where you are. In the northeast, that might be D, C, B.
In Minnesota it is C, B/A, and A/AA
There is no universal letter system.
Just because you think it's perfect, doesn't mean it is.
Apparently 400 means B player. Ron Mason was a 402 and he's a solid B player.
Here is a link to a Dr. Dave rating comparison chart.
http://billiarduniversity.org/documents/BU_Rating_Comparisons.pdf
It covers multiple rating systems.
What I find strange is I saw someone post a while back what the bronze, silver, gold, platinum number range was for bcapl and women and men had different numbers. I don't get that. A female 500 should be the same as a male 500.
It might have been a misprint or bad info, it wasn't from their site. I just found it strange.
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Funny thing is, Mark Griffin said its in its infancy only a few posts up from mine.
Those aren't my words, those are the words of Mr Griffin & many Fan Boys. You may think it's the answer & it may be, for you. Doesn't mean it is for everyone.
Thanks for the response.
Yes a 500 women and man would be the same.
I don't know what you are saying, but I assume you mean the division cut off numbers were not the same for men and women.
Fargo Billiards puts on tournaments named Quadrangles. Each time the cut offs are different, depending on the ratings of players. In other words Gold doesn't mean 425 - 525 for example. Gold is just a name.
I am not talking for CSI but this maybe the case. The splits between the two tournaments would be different because the two fields do not mirror each other in number and ratings.
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A female 500 IS the same as a male 500, and when a female and male play in the mixed division, there is no issue.
But when we apply the word "platinum" to a female-only group, and the word means the top xx% of that group, it is going to be associated with a different rating range than if we use the same criterion for a different group.
The relationship between CSI and FargoRate might be considered in its infancy.
FargoRate itself is not when you look at the games, years, players, and countries.
I look as these as two separate things.
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You know guys, it seems no one wants to answer the simple question I asked in other threads about Fargo. What happens to a player stuck by ability in the middle of a bracket? Any bracket. How does that player get a REASONABLE chance to drop out of that bracket other than to SANDBAG? Some say get better. What if your closer to the end of life than the beginning? What if the player is already playing as hard as they can? How long will that player continue to support the event with no chance to win a match or two let alone cash? Think everyone is stuck worrying about how their rating is determined and how it is determined in relation to other players. It's such a simple question. Why can't the powers that be answer it? I know, just wait and the answer will magicly appear. You'll see. Just wait a few more years.
Lyn
Lyn
Is FargoRate in its infancy or is it honed and well developed?
The answer is yes.
We worked many thousands of person-hours for several years collecting data and building the infrastructure before anybody knew what was going on and before we hooked up with CSI. By the time we partnered with CSI a little over a year ago, we already had over a million games in the system, tens of thousands of players, many countries, and the full functioning global optimization. It was very tempting during those years to spill the beans and let people know what was going on but we didn't.
It was as though nobody had heard of the concept of a railroad, and we were secretly building trans-continental railroad tracks without every showing a train.
In the short time we have been working with CSI, our database has grown from 1.0 million games to 3.5 million games and we are only now introducing the LMS league management software that will bring games automatically in.
So think about this. Five years to get to 1.0 million games, one more year to get to 3.5 million games right now Things are growing very fast and the pace is only getting faster. We are at a VERY exciting time for CSI and FargoRate.
So back to the railroad analogy. Though we have tracks across the country with functioning trains, the North Dakota Soybean farmer may not be able get his crop to Asia until some of the side-routes are constructed.
So in terms of bringing this new concept of railroad transportation to the world, we are fully established. In terms of the typical farmer using rail traffic with his crops, we are in the infancy.
Some areas are quite established; other areas are quite thin. But the infrastructure for ALL areas is in place, and things are moving fast in an exciting direction.
Lyn -- I recall responding to this in some more detail.
If, in fact, a player is in a situation where he has "no chance to win a match or two let alone cash," that player will MOST DEFINITELY be in a lower division.
But if that player is someone like you, who legitimately plays--currently--at 655 speed, who played 11 matches this year in Platinum singles divisions, winning 7 matches and losing 4 matches, then it would be unfair to the players in the Gold division to have the player added.
Surely you can appreciate this.
FargoRate
In ten years, the data collected and the data available will be much more than now. FargoRate will be much more common and be used in ways we can't even imagine.
Mikes railroad analogy is accurate. Improvements will be constantly made and the product will improve. That is what I was referring to as 'in its infancy'
Several have misinterpreted my statement. I did not say the method was incorrect or data was inaccurate-I was saying improvements in applications of this data will come over the years.
Some of these are a obvious (use it as a handicapping tool)-others aren't so obvious. The major area that will increase is data collection.
I never implied FargoRate was perfect. But more data will improve the accuracy of the system.
Hope this explains it more clearly.
Mark Griffin
In ten years, the data collected and the data available will be much more than now. FargoRate will be much more common and be used in ways we can't even imagine.
Mikes railroad analogy is accurate. Improvements will be constantly made and the product will improve. That is what I was referring to as 'in its infancy'
Several have misinterpreted my statement. I did not say the method was incorrect or data was inaccurate-I was saying improvements in applications of this data will come over the years.
Some of these are a obvious (use it as a handicapping tool)-others aren't so obvious. The major area that will increase is data collection.
I never implied FargoRate was perfect. But more data will improve the accuracy of the system.
Hope this explains it more clearly.
Mark Griffin