How tight is too tight?
- Thread starter FuManchu
- Start date
Diamonds....
Look at the new Diamond Pro Ams, the pockets on them is about as tight as you want to do and still have fun, very close to 4 maybe some under that.
Look at the new Diamond Pro Ams, the pockets on them is about as tight as you want to do and still have fun, very close to 4 maybe some under that.
I just want to reiterate that I believe it is a fallacy to think that "tight" pockets will make one better in and of themselves. After all, even playing on a "loose" table, you can still practice hitting a specific part of the pocket.
I wish that banks and 14.1 were the premier game instead of 9 or 10 ball. Then I think folks would bemoan their tight pockets, plus those games are at least fun to watch.
Edit:. I have the 9 foot diamond pro and wouldn't change a thing.
I wish that banks and 14.1 were the premier game instead of 9 or 10 ball. Then I think folks would bemoan their tight pockets, plus those games are at least fun to watch.
Edit:. I have the 9 foot diamond pro and wouldn't change a thing.
Tight for Training
I don't disagree with anything you've said but would like to add something. A tight pocket table makes you account for the cut induced throw on shots. Until most of us get it through our thick skulls what to do in order to cope with it, and when, that one thing probably causes more misses than any one thing you have to deal with. It doesn't really rear its head proper on normal shots until you get on a tight table then, you cant avoid coping with it.
I don't disagree with anything you've said but would like to add something. A tight pocket table makes you account for the cut induced throw on shots. Until most of us get it through our thick skulls what to do in order to cope with it, and when, that one thing probably causes more misses than any one thing you have to deal with. It doesn't really rear its head proper on normal shots until you get on a tight table then, you cant avoid coping with it.
And exactly what kind of table are we talking about here.
4.5 inch is IMO the perfect size for pool. You always have to take into consideration that worn cloth, imperfect pocket cut etc can make pockets play tougher. If your pocket is, say, 4 1/8 inches you have zero margin for error. The slightest imperfection in the pocket will make it spit balls left and right. For pros, who always play on new cloth and great equipment, 4 1/4 inches is allright. In a run down pool room with ancient cloth and battered rails, the same size will be unplayable.
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Learning how to cope with it will always make one a much better player.
Your statement needs to be understood by all folks who tighten pockets.
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Diamonds standard corner pockets are 4 1/2"
You know, I really think most players who started young will always automatically and subconsciously compensate for CIT. I can jump from a bar box to a snooker table and shooting at the maximum throw angle, it feels exactly the same to me. You don't need tight pockets to have to take CIT into account either, plenty of times you'll have a cut shot where you have to thread the needle to just miss this ball or that ball, hit a hard combo from a cut angle, or squeak a ball into a pocket that's partially obstructed. What messes me up is when they hand me a tray of balls fresh out of the polisher in the winter when there's less humidity. Freshly polished balls in dry air don't have a normal amount of throw and for a crazy second I think I'm overcutting everything until the balls roll around and pick up a little 'seasoning', then all is good.
I've rethought my position on tight pockets for a home table
If you have tight pockets you'll have to not only keep your cloth immaculate, but you'll have to constantly get your table leveled, really really control for temperature and humidity fluctuations (the slate and table frame can become funky even with 10 degree variations in temperature) and as will inevitably happen during the lifetime of the table, it will wear down a little and even new cloth won't make it roll perfectly true. Then you'll regret having tight pockets.
I went to a pool hall tonight that I don't usually go to. They only had one diamond with 4.25" pockets, which is what I'm used to at my regular pool hall. However, this particular table was in need of a tune-up. Even though the cloth was surprisingly fast for a well-worn table, either the cloth or slate along the long rails was damaged, rolls down the rail wobbled and curved away from the rail BADLY. The table was also slightly off level (checked by slow rolling frozen combos, saw consistent curve). Usually I really enjoy 4.25" pockets but on a table where the ball refuses to roll clean down the rail, it really ruined my night. 15-ball rotation was just a pain in the ass, I'd hit my shot knowing it was going to go dead in then start to walk to my next shot, only for the ball to wobble and curve and hit the point of the pocket, blowing my pattern. I don't think I ever got through a full 15 ball rack of rotation cleanly the whole night, it really did not make for good practice.
Go With 4 3/8" Pockets
Standards and Reality
I think you have standards in basketball, we should have them in pool and the Diamond pockets are as perfect as I've seen. I'd like to see the specs on the Diamond pocket as you suggest above become the standard. Rail rubber angle the whole bit.
I've played on stuff I hated to look at the pocket and the new diamonds are consistent. When I play on one I feel like I can count on what I can do in order to pocket the ball.
Now all that sounds great but really I'm just happy to have a table to go play on. I don't care if its made out of plywood. I don't care if they have air conditioning. I just love pool, but when I come play, come over and lets get a game going or sit your butt down and leave me be. That's all I require. I'll play on what I have to play on.
I think you have standards in basketball, we should have them in pool and the Diamond pockets are as perfect as I've seen. I'd like to see the specs on the Diamond pocket as you suggest above become the standard. Rail rubber angle the whole bit.
I've played on stuff I hated to look at the pocket and the new diamonds are consistent. When I play on one I feel like I can count on what I can do in order to pocket the ball.
Now all that sounds great but really I'm just happy to have a table to go play on. I don't care if its made out of plywood. I don't care if they have air conditioning. I just love pool, but when I come play, come over and lets get a game going or sit your butt down and leave me be. That's all I require. I'll play on what I have to play on.
Not trolling. Just have never owned a table and had no idea what tight pockets would be. Ive always thought that 4 1/2 were standard and i wanted to challenge myself but after reading the responses here i have learned that 4 1/2 will be plenty tight and offer the benefits of a tight table without the aggravation of going too tight. I really appreciate everyone that has replied.
I would not go any smaller than 4.375, unless your looking for extreme punishment, or your a seasoned player.
If you have good fundamentals, the easiest way to get discouraged shooting pool, is on a table that is too tight. Start bigger, and work your way down in a couple years. You may be better off in the long run, starting at 4.75. Trust me, you'll enjoy the game and practice time much more.
Keep us posted.
If you have good fundamentals, the easiest way to get discouraged shooting pool, is on a table that is too tight. Start bigger, and work your way down in a couple years. You may be better off in the long run, starting at 4.75. Trust me, you'll enjoy the game and practice time much more.
Keep us posted.
YES.................Johnnyt
I'll admit I'm biased based on what I chose for my table, but I think that the Diamond pro-cut is the best choice for a serious pool player for a few reasons: it's one of the few (possibly the only) standardized "professional" pocket geometries out there, it accepts balls hit into the pocket from any angle cleanly, yet it's tight/deep enough to penalize sloppy shots down the rail.
The catch is that unless you get a Diamond table, the pockets are not going to play exactly like the Diamond pockets, because it's really a combination of the shelf depth, angle, and width that determines how the pockets play. I have played on "really tight" tables that are actually quite forgiving because they don't have much of a shelf or are angled so that they seem to gobble up balls, and I have played on "loose" tables where the angle was so bad that they'd spit out balls that were hit cleanly between the points.
If you have a good table mechanic available, I would recommend discussing exactly what you're looking for with them so that you can take the characteristics of the table into account when choosing the pocket geometry.
In any case, I would opt for a setup that is fun to play on over one that's designed to penalize you for every slight error. That way, you'll have something that you and your friends can enjoy playing on and will be more likely to put in the time to get better. If you want to practice precision pocketing, buy a set of pocket reducers and put them in for part of your practice session, but practice with them out as well so you can work on position play without the frustration of rattling every other ball.
The catch is that unless you get a Diamond table, the pockets are not going to play exactly like the Diamond pockets, because it's really a combination of the shelf depth, angle, and width that determines how the pockets play. I have played on "really tight" tables that are actually quite forgiving because they don't have much of a shelf or are angled so that they seem to gobble up balls, and I have played on "loose" tables where the angle was so bad that they'd spit out balls that were hit cleanly between the points.
If you have a good table mechanic available, I would recommend discussing exactly what you're looking for with them so that you can take the characteristics of the table into account when choosing the pocket geometry.
In any case, I would opt for a setup that is fun to play on over one that's designed to penalize you for every slight error. That way, you'll have something that you and your friends can enjoy playing on and will be more likely to put in the time to get better. If you want to practice precision pocketing, buy a set of pocket reducers and put them in for part of your practice session, but practice with them out as well so you can work on position play without the frustration of rattling every other ball.
Again...what kind of pool table are you getting, as that can also have an effect on how pockets play.