Interesting observation in an old Mosconi vs Fats video

spktur said:
Apparently you never met them Fats was very friendly and entertaining to talk to and happy to give an autograph Mosconi was an ass and didn't want anything at all to do with the fans and would try and not do autographs.
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Not true.

Over the years I lived in SF I saw Mosconi put on an exhibition perhaps four times. When he was playing you could see the hate and contempt Mosconi had for all his opponents. It was said that in championship play he hated to lose so much that, while he was in the chair, he'd chew his tongue until it bled.

But at his exhibitions he was quite cordial afterwards and would sign anything and talk to the fans at length. In fact, one of the reasons Mosconi's autograph is not worth as much as that of some other players is that he toured the country over and over and would sign just about anything handed to him: paper, posters, books, CBs, and cues. There are thousands of Mosconi autographs out there. Even I have one.

Lou Figueroa
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Mosconi & Fats came from different backgrounds. Mosconi was a great ambassador for pool, and a gentleman Fat was a low life big month hustler.
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You're wrong about that. True, Mosconi was an ambassador but he was also on Brunswick's payroll to be an ambassador. Mosconi could be pretty nasty when he wanted to be. He was a prima-donna-type.

Fats, on the other hand was a good, kind person, maybe not a great player but he had his moments on the table--- and he gave a great exhibition--- and kept everyone laughing. Mosconi made no one laugh. Fats was the true ambassador.

Fats was also an animal activist and would often literally pick up strays and take them home from whatever city he was in at the time.

As far as safeties in that event, I'm pretty sure they were both asked to go for the shots.
 
FranCrimi said:
You're wrong about that. True, Mosconi was an ambassador but he was also on Brunswick's payroll to be an ambassador. Mosconi could be pretty nasty when he wanted to be. He was a prima-donna-type.

Fats, on the other hand was a good, kind person, maybe not a great player but he had his moments on the table--- and he gave a great exhibition--- and kept everyone laughing. Mosconi made no one laugh. Fats was the true ambassador.

Fats was also an animal activist and would often literally pick up strays and take them home from whatever city he was in at the time.

As far as safeties in that event, I'm pretty sure they were both asked to go for the shots.
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Bull shee-too.

Fats was as much an ambassador to pool as a carnival barker. He was a total opportunist. Was he entertaining? Sure. But it was Mosconi who traveled back and forth across the country -- giving 300 exhibitions a year -- and inspired players for years and years, showing them how beautiful the game could be when played perfectly. Fats was a side show.

Lou Figueroa
 
spktur said:
Apparently you never met them Fats was very friendly and entertaining to talk to and happy to give an autograph Mosconi was an ass and didn't want anything at all to do with the fans and would try and not do autographs.
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This is a lot closer to the truth!
 
FranCrimi said:
You're wrong about that. True, Mosconi was an ambassador but he was also on Brunswick's payroll to be an ambassador. Mosconi could be pretty nasty when he wanted to be. He was a prima-donna-type.

Fats, on the other hand was a good, kind person, maybe not a great player but he had his moments on the table--- and he gave a great exhibition--- and kept everyone laughing. Mosconi made no one laugh. Fats was the true ambassador.

Fats was also an animal activist and would often literally pick up strays and take them home from whatever city he was in at the time.

As far as safeties in that event, I'm pretty sure they were both asked to go for the shots.
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Right on Fran. I knew them both, Fats very well. He was a hustler, no doubt about that. But he had a big heart, and would help other pool players who were down on their luck. I could tell many stories about Fats, maybe the most interesting man I ever met. I rode with him to an exhibition in Cincinnati and we stopped at a gas station where Fats took about thirty minutes to care for an emaciated dog that was hanging around looking for scraps. He had that poor dog eating out of his hands and licking his face. When we were leaving he handed the gas station attendant some money and told him to take care of that dog. He said he would be back to check up on him.

Mosconi meanwhile, had a bad attitude toward just about everybody. We were all beneath him. He took mercy on me since I was his whipping boy in one particular match. He did mellow as he got older and, thanks to Fats, made some good money from their TV specials. I could tell you a lot more but that's enough for now.
 
Cowboy Dennis said:
Exactly the opposite is true. Mosconi made Fats play "call-shot" 9-Ball and balls slopped in spotted up (could be wrong about that 2nd point). Rotation games and 8-Ball came before Banks and One-Pocket all at Mosconi's insistence. He had always beat Fats before Fats's best games came up. Mosconi knew he might very well lose to Fats playing Banks or One-Pocket and he did his best to put them up after the other games. It worked.

RBL
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It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Not only did they play call shot everything, Mosconi even included the BREAK. You break, and if you sink balls you get to keep shooting but whatever you sunk got spotted. Someone correct me if I'm remembering that wrong. Totally bizarre way to play pool, if you ask me.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Mosconi & Fats came from different backgrounds. Mosconi was a great ambassador for pool, and a gentleman Fat was a low life big month hustler.
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I am sure that somewhere in there is your opinion about playing safe in 9 Ball vs 14.1...

But I'm having trouble finding it.

Dale
 
john coloccia said:
It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Not only did they play call shot everything, Mosconi even included the BREAK. You break, and if you sink balls you get to keep shooting but whatever you sunk got spotted. Someone correct me if I'm remembering that wrong. Totally bizarre way to play pool, if you ask me.
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Oh, I almost forgot this rule, and again someone correct me if I'm wrong. I think in 9 ball, ball in hand was behind the head string, and if the lowest numbered ball was also behind the head string, I think it was removed from the table, or spotted on the foot spot. Is that right? Totally bizarre rules!

But do they lag for break? Nope. Coin toss! :rolleyes:
 
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lfigueroa said:
Bull shee-too.

Fats was as much an ambassador to pool as a carnival barker. He was a total opportunist. Was he entertaining? Sure. But it was Mosconi who traveled back and forth across the country -- giving 300 exhibitions a year -- and inspired players for years and years, showing them how beautiful the game could be when played perfectly. Fats was a side show.

Lou Figueroa
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I knew them both and I would pick Fats any day over Willie when it comes to a stand-up person. Fats was a good guy. Willie was all about Willie.
 
I was lucky enough to play Fats in an exhibition match. He was a really fun guy to be around...talking and kidding with the crowd and me. Maybe not the best player...but very very good...and a great hustler. I thought Ronnie Allen in his later years reminded me of Fats...just a plain good fun guy to be around. Both could hustle up a game and get you to bet more than you should while making you think you had the nuts. Loved being around both of them.
 
jay helfert said:
Right on Fran. I knew them both, Fats very well. He was a hustler, no doubt about that. But he had a big heart, and would help other pool players who were down on their luck. I could tell many stories about Fats, maybe the most interesting man I ever met. I rode with him to an exhibition in Cincinnati and we stopped at a gas station where Fats took about thirty minutes to care for an emaciated dog that was hanging around looking for scraps. He had that poor dog eating out of his hands and licking his face. When we were leaving he handed the gas station attendant some money and told him to take care of that dog. He said he would be back to check up on him.

Mosconi meanwhile, had a bad attitude toward just about everybody. We were all beneath him. He took mercy on me since I was his whipping boy in one particular match. He did mellow as he got older and, thanks to Fats, made some good money from their TV specials. I could tell you a lot more but that's enough for now.
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In Mosconi's case, the truth is that just about every living pool player was beneath him. He was a prima donna, a diva, but he was also a genius, a savant, the greatest, and as a person perhaps he did not wear the crown well. But as a player, Fats couldn't carry Mosconi's cue case.

Lou Figueroa
 
FranCrimi said:
I knew them both and I would pick Fats any day over Willie when it comes to a stand-up person. Fats was a good guy. Willie was all about Willie.
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Fran, what I clearly took issue with was your statement that Fats was the true ambassador for the game, not who was the nicer guy.

Willie served his country working in a defense plant, served in the Army near the end of WWII, and post-war toured USAF rec centers doing exhibitions. In retirement he toured the country multiple times, dressed to the teeth, running 100 in every joint he played in, doing trick shots, signing autographs, and talking to fans.

Fats never toured anywhere near as extensively. What he did, after "The Hustler" came out, was change his name from New York Fats to "Minnesota Fats." The random exhibitions he did, he would miss trick shot after trick shot and then just use a rubber stamp of his signature for autographs. THEN he's go on and on about his supposed exploits: "I played Happy the Chinaman for $500,000! I played Ralph (Greenleaf) a thousand nights in a row, and I beat him every night! Andrew Ponzi was a girl. I beat him like a drum!"

Fat's was a showman interested in promoting himself. Yes, Mosconi got paid by Brunswick and AJAY to do exhibitions but he was the the one who promoted the game across the country for years and years and was it's true ambassador.

Lou Figueroa
 
I met Fats once in Valley Stream, NY and Mosconi twice on Long Island and Queens, NY. I could spend a day talking with Fat's. Mosconi, I'd ***** slap that snob in the first few min. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
I met Fats once in Valley Stream, NY and Mosconi twice on Long Island and Queens, NY. I could spend a day talking with Fat's. Mosconi, I'd ***** slap that snob in the first few min. Johnnyt
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But you didn't ;-)

Mosconi was pretty hot tempered and even if you'd have the balls to slap a man whom I suspect would have been much older than you at the time, you would have had a fight on your hands. He was no shrinking violet.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
But you didn't ;-)

Mosconi was pretty hot tempered and even if you'd have the balls to slap a man whom I suspect would have been much older than you at the time, you would have had a fight on your hands. He was no shrinking violet.

Lou Figueroa

OH, PLEASE. Johnnyt
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Johnnyt said:
lfigueroa said:
But you didn't ;-)

Mosconi was pretty hot tempered and even if you'd have the balls to slap a man whom I suspect would have been much older than you at the time, you would have had a fight on your hands. He was no shrinking violet.

Lou Figueroa

OH, PLEASE. Johnnyt
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OH, WHATEVER. ( I love an intellectual discussion, lol.)

I don't believe it is widely known that Mosconi's father was a prize fighter. And when the elder Mosconi retired from boxing he ran a gym with pool tables out front for the boxers to relax. It was in a tough Philly neighborhood and Willie engaged in numerous scuffles as he grew up. In later life he had two scars on his face -- one on his forehead and another on his chin -- from those fights.

You're lucky not to have acted on your impulses ;-)

Lou Figueroa
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john coloccia said:
Oh, I almost forgot this rule, and again someone correct me if I'm wrong. I think in 9 ball, ball in hand was behind the head string, and if the lowest numbered ball was also behind the head string, I think it was removed from the table, or spotted on the foot spot. Is that right? Totally bizarre rules!

But do they lag for break? Nope. Coin toss! :rolleyes:
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BIH was indeed behind the line after a pocket scratch and the lowest numbered ball went down if it was also behind the line. It was a common way to play in 1978 before the advent of 1-foul BIH. Some played the ball would spot up though. Not bizarre at all except that Mosconi made the rules and I would think he would've wanted more balls on the table not less.

Here's one match:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gtnmfb9Dnkg

Nine-Ball is up first. By the way, They say Fats was 65 and Mosconi 64 at this time.

In this match-up they were to play Nine-Ball, 8 ball, Rotation, 14.1 and then One-Pocket. I'm sure with the victor only needing to win 3 of 5 events Mosconi figured he'd avoid the One-Pocket by putting it last.

RBL
 
Two different people that lived in different worlds. Mosconi made the rules for the televised match and he made 9 ball as close to straight pool as he could. If Fats made the rules and picked the games he would have won. Fats could never compete with Willie in tournament pool but if Willie would have ventured into Fats world he would not have liked it. Willie was enough of a hustler to match up with the best of it.
 
Henry W said:
Two different people that lived in different worlds. Mosconi made the rules for the televised match and he made 9 ball as close to straight pool as he could. If Fats made the rules and picked the games he would have won. Fats could never compete with Willie in tournament pool but if Willie would have ventured into Fats world he would not have liked it. Willie was enough of a hustler to match up with the best of it.
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I'm not sure what you're alluding to.

Mosconi grew up playing money games, though later on, at the urging of Brunswick, he disavowed gambling. Growing up in his room in Philadelphia he played anyone who walked through the door and, once word got out how good he was, there were few road agents who made stopping in there a priority. He was certainly always ready to play Fats any game he wanted.

Lou Figueroa
 
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