"My knowledge exceeds my skill level" has to be the among the most common things said by players who never get better than B level. I don't think it is even possible for a player with shortstop or higher level knowledge to fall to B player status. I guess maybe if they went blind or something, but I know solid A players who are well past 70, so as long as the eyesight is there, there is nothing physical holding people back to reaching at least A level.
To spin or not to spin?
- Thread starter Kevin3824
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"My knowledge exceeds my skill level" has to be the among the most common things said by players who never get better than B level. I don't think it is even possible for a player with shortstop or higher level knowledge to fall to B player status. I guess maybe if they went blind or something, but I know solid A players who are well past 70, so as long as the eyesight is there, there is nothing physical holding people back to reaching at least A level.
Tiger Woods swing coach was better than him?
A master learns from everybody.
I became far better with a rest from a guy I used to give 75 to at full rack snooker.
.....he was an old boxer and told me how to adjust my stance....
....basically, your feet should be the opposite from when you shoot without a rest.
No, but they were former pros, not some hack who occasionally breaks 100.
Those that cannot do, teach? His coach is teaching him fundamentals of his swing right? Do you want a lesser player than you fooling with your fundamentals if they aren't accredited? I am sure there are accredited pool instructors that teach pros fundamentals but if you are an A player would you take advice on fundamentals from a B or a C player? In the same vein does a C or B player see the table the same as an A player? Actually they would want you to teach them.
PoolChump
Banned
Have's and Havenots
Just because top professionals have nearly mastered their art, it won't guarantee they will be great instructors. Great instructors don't have to necessarily master the game, but they do have to understand a game well enough to explain and teach it in a way that makes sense. Also, one instructor may be the best fundamentals coach, but weak in another area or have a particular preference in something specific.
Just because top professionals have nearly mastered their art, it won't guarantee they will be great instructors. Great instructors don't have to necessarily master the game, but they do have to understand a game well enough to explain and teach it in a way that makes sense. Also, one instructor may be the best fundamentals coach, but weak in another area or have a particular preference in something specific.
I agree. There are many certified instructors that post here that do not play at pro level. When did I ever say that because you play well you would be a good instructor? The fact remains for me, I don't have to be formally taught by a better player but I do learn by playing better players. What can I learn from someone that is consistently racking for me? I don't know your speed, but when a guy who always misses shots by a full diamond tries to give me advice on my game I usually wonder why he doesn't play better.
This may sound harsh but probably needs to be said:
Serious pool doesn't even begin until a player reaches at least an APA 7 skill level. Up until you reach this level you really can't comprehend everything that's happening on the table. You can study the game, read the books, watch the videos, and even read an Internet forum but you still won't quite get "it" until you reach this level of proficiency. It's sort of like the guy that reads all about climbing Mount Everest but has never done it -- explaining to a sherpa how to go about doing it. That's not to say that a less skilled player couldn't come across a piece of advice or pick up on a fundamental flaw in a more skilled players game. It's just that when they do you would think they would do so with a bit of humility that comes from an understanding that the person that they are dealing with has climbed much further up the mountain top than they have. If you lack this humility you may continue to offer up sage advice but don't be suprised if you hear, "Thanks but no thanks Skippy."
Serious pool doesn't even begin until a player reaches at least an APA 7 skill level. Up until you reach this level you really can't comprehend everything that's happening on the table. You can study the game, read the books, watch the videos, and even read an Internet forum but you still won't quite get "it" until you reach this level of proficiency. It's sort of like the guy that reads all about climbing Mount Everest but has never done it -- explaining to a sherpa how to go about doing it. That's not to say that a less skilled player couldn't come across a piece of advice or pick up on a fundamental flaw in a more skilled players game. It's just that when they do you would think they would do so with a bit of humility that comes from an understanding that the person that they are dealing with has climbed much further up the mountain top than they have. If you lack this humility you may continue to offer up sage advice but don't be suprised if you hear, "Thanks but no thanks Skippy."
Are you implying that my skill level determines whether or not what I have stated is true?
Is it not a fact that hitting off vertical center of the cue ball introduces several other factors that must be accounted for?
Is it not fact that the more variables you introduce into a shot, then the more likely it is that the successful execution of said shot goes down?
Is it not fact that the more the environment has a direct affect the variables then those variables become inconsistent?
Are you stating that low level players that actually do want to improve do not need to master the basic shot of the cue ball with natural roll?
Good cue ball control is ultimately entering the shot window from the angle that allows you to stay in it the longest which improves your margin of error. So unless your spin, which introduces many inconsistent variables, is greatly increasing your entry and time in that shot window over a natural roll shot, then why even do it to begin with?
An SL6 can most likely look at a shot and tell you pretty much exactly where the cue ball is going to go with natural rolls and the tangent line, so I would not disagree they should be fine tuning their cue ball control by learning spin more. But I would not agree with your blanket statement of spin making the game easier, especially for players that haven't mastered the basics. I will also not shy away from my statement that it should still only be used when needed because of the additional inconsistent variables it introduces.
Speaking of which.... there are at least 10 variables that come into play when you hit off vertical center that will vary from equipment to equipment. Please list 10 of them and explain to the stupid ones (like me) how introducing at least 10 new variables into virtually ever shot makes the game easier for players that haven't even mastered the basics of cue ball control using natural roll and the tangent line.
I'll get you started:
1.) Deflection
2.)
3.)
4.)
5.)
6.)
7.)
8.)
9.)
10.)
But what do I know, I have only been playing for 4 years and I am a lowly SL6 in a shit league (APA)?
....or maybe it's like:
While you're on your maiden trek up the mountain you stop a sherpa who's on his way down, to explain to him the best way to get up.
While you're on your maiden trek up the mountain you stop a sherpa who's on his way down, to explain to him the best way to get up.
That's a lotta words.
Shooting many shots centerball introduces variables that are eliminated by shooting the shot with spin.
Shooting many shots centerball introduces variables that are eliminated by shooting the shot with spin.
As a general rule, you would be right. There are always exceptions though. One prime example would be Mike Segal thinking that one can not put spin on an object ball. The wise person will listen to what the weaker player says, he just might learn something.
It's also very possible that the weaker player sees something in the better players game that is holding him back that the better player didn't even realize that he was doing.
No, but it is correlated with how correct you are.
Depends on the shot, but generally yes.
I'm going to assume you meant to use the word "less" as opposed to "more" as that is what you have been arguing up until now.
No, that is not correct. Depending on what variables you introduce and how well you are able to compensate, the shot often becomes much easier depending on your goals.
Yes, but that goes for everything, including center ball, so it is a moot point.
No, he was stating that players of similar skill to yourself cannot improve without learning how to manipulate shots beyond natural roll.
Because it often makes the shot easier to make, reduces the chance of throw and skid, allows for a more firm stroke, puts the cue ball on the correct line for position, and some more reasons that escape me at the moment.
You don't need to agree, just to realize that you are speaking to people who know far more about this game, have far more experience at it, and who have helped far more lower level players raise their game to be better than yours and still have come to the conclusion that spin makes the game easier.
I'm not sure why you are so afraid of these "variables" did they abuse you as a child?
A good player can easily compensate for any effects introduced by english. They are good players, not because they have some innate ability to execute these shots without knowledge of them, but because through experience and learning have overcome them and are able to compensate for them at will. The fact that you haven't learned to compensate for them beyond the level of an apa 6 just shows a lack of knowledge in that area.
Actually, the fact that you have overcomplicated things by separating it into 10 factors shows your lack of practical knowledge as well.
The only problem with using spin is most of us take the tip way too far off center. The idea of not using spin is more like using less spin or learn how to stroke correctly so that you have adequate amount of spin without going too far off center.
Mike Sigel once said something like you only need like 1 or 1 and a half of the tip off center max.
When most pro using spin they don't actually hit that far off center.
Banks
Banned
A friend of mine has been at about the same apa 5 level since i began playing. He can still do a full cue jump better than i, but he helped me get it started. Another friend helped me with rail shots. I still ask for input on certain shots that i see people are more comfortable with than i am. I try my best to put my ego aside when it comes to learning.
Please name a variable other than collision induced throw offset (gearing) that is eliminated by using spin instead of center ball.
I understand I wouldn't want an APA 6 making me look foolish by trying to address his questions directly either.
Your speaker there clearly hasn't read my post as he wouldn't be speaking of highly skilled players if he did.
Take care.
Mind pointing out a part of your post that I didn't read? I debunked pretty much everything in your post point by point. That is pretty tough to do without reading it.
Mayoshi answered not only in the same manner I was going to, he even caught the same wrong word usage (you wrote, "more" instead of less). That would have been silly to write a post that was entirely too similar.
I will reiterate that you write as if spin (from a little to gobs) english is something to be feared. I would hope that is not the case for you, but you sure write it as if you either are or you want to convey to lesser players that it should be feared because it has so many dreadful variables for inconsistency. This seems to be the crux of your posts. English makes so many shot and shot patterns so much easier, I'd rather that lesser players didn't struggle with those shot if they're so bent on staying on the vertical axis.
I talk about the standard five shots of rotation that I teach. Everyone knows them. They all have English as part of their makeup. Understanding them makes this game so much easier. I'd assume you want to make this game easier to play.
You have choices. Read and learn from people who have already learned the lesson, or stay where you are believing how right you are.
Your choice.
Freddie <~~~ the dawn awakens
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