Shaw's Aiming

Dan White said:
Can you shoot the cue ball up and back hitting the tip of your cue 10 times in a row? Can you put draw on the cue ball and do the same thing even two times in a row? If not, then you have stroke issues that are causing you to miss. Fix that and you will miss less frequently due to "aiming" error. Just to be clear, I put that word in quotations to indicate that it isn't really an aiming error, but a stroke error.

I have to 'splain everything around here.
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You still gotta splain it a lot.
They still maintain some esoteric aiming system is more important than a great stroke.
 
I'd say everyone misses for perhaps their own reasons. But alignment plays a significant role. You can hit a ball pretty badly and still make it if your alignment is spot on. This is separate from aiming of course since you can choose the correct line and but not actually put your cue on it properly.

Great alignment with a great stroke tend to produce high level results though.
 
JoeyInCali said:
No, you're confused.
Dan was saying John's stroke needs more attention. Not his aiming.
He said the same about Goldenflash.
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And knowing Dan he would say the same about me, except he has never seen me play.

PS still the aiming forum
 
cookie man said:
And knowing Dan he would say the same about me, except he has never seen me play.

PS still the aiming forum
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I don't need to see you play. Just do the up and back drill at typical shot speeds with both follow and draw. If you don't do it consistently then I believe many of your misses are due to the stroke, not aim. BTW, it isn't like this is some new thing I just made up. It just became crystal clear to me as I began to achieve a straighter and straighter stroke.

Oh, if you never did it before, set up a shot and hit it softly enough that the ball doesn't even quite reach the pocket. Observe whether the ball was on the right path to be pocketed. Since stroke errors are generally magnified as the speed of the shot increases, this is another way to check your aim vs stroke.
 
Dan White said:
I"m pretty sure based on this comment that you don't understand the issue. You as much said you are a bar banger level player, so it follows my original point that you wouldn't understand the stroke, and instead would blame too many misses on bad aim.
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Mmmmm...well, I guess you're probably right about me.
Obviously my skill level is so inadequate that I'm mentally incapable of understanding the finer points of the game. Points on which you seem to be an expert.
So I guess I will just continue to plod along in mediocrity and enjoy the parts of the game that I can.
Thank you for your well thought out response.
 
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Dan White said:
I don't need to see you play. Just do the up and back drill at typical shot speeds with both follow and draw. If you don't do it consistently then I believe many of your misses are due to the stroke, not aim. BTW, it isn't like this is some new thing I just made up. It just became crystal clear to me as I began to achieve a straighter and straighter stroke.

Oh, if you never did it before, set up a shot and hit it softly enough that the ball doesn't even quite reach the pocket. Observe whether the ball was on the right path to be pocketed. Since stroke errors are generally magnified as the speed of the shot increases, this is another way to check your aim vs stroke.
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I shoot balls soft all the time, it's one of my favorite drills.
 
GoldenFlash said:
Mmmmm...well, I guess you're probably right about me.
Obviously my skill level is so inadequate that I'm mentally incapable of understanding the finer points of the game. Points on which you seem to be an expert.
So I guess I will just continue to plod along in mediocrity and enjoy the parts of the game that I can.
Thank you for your well thought out response.
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It was a well thought out response. You have a habit of using self deprecating humor. I don't know you from Adam so I don't know if you really are a good player or not. Sorry, but I can only go by what you type.

The fact is that lower level players cannot appreciate higher level concepts no matter how well they intellectualize it. That is not a dig. I'm sure there are lots of things a pro player can tell me and I can think I understand, but really don't because I'm not at their level.

Is this really even controversial?
 
Dan White said:
It was a well thought out response. You have a habit of using self deprecating humor. I don't know you from Adam so I don't know if you really are a good player or not. Sorry, but I can only go by what you type.
The fact is that lower level players cannot appreciate higher level concepts no matter how well they intellectualize it. That is not a dig. I'm sure there are lots of things a pro player can tell me and I can think I understand, but really don't because I'm not at their level.
Is this really even controversial?
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I really don't know what my self deprecating has to do with understanding the higher levels of pool. My doctor finds very little humor in my condition.
At my age, regular doses of Metamucil seem to be about the best I can do.:)
Thanks for your concern about it................................I guess.
 
GoldenFlash said:
I really don't know what my self deprecating has to do with understanding the higher levels of pool. My doctor finds very little humor in my condition.
At my age, regular doses of Metamucil seem to be about the best I can do.:)
Thanks for your concern about it................................I guess.
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I can't tell whether you are a banger and take offense at the idea that you might not appreciate the finer points of play, or whether you are a great player that takes offense at being called a bar banger. If you've been playing 50 or so years and are in a pool forum I'm thinking you're a pretty experienced player.

I think I'm figuring you out, though. My late, great uncle Walter was the oddball in the family. He's the guy wearing a wet suit and straw hat on the beach. At the same time he was an accomplished person who hosted Marilyn Monroe at his beach house. You sound like that sort...maybe even a relative of Tramp Steamer, no? :)
 
Dan White said:
I can't tell whether you are a banger and take offense at the idea that you might not appreciate the finer points of play, or whether you are a great player that takes offense at being called a bar banger. If you've been playing 50 or so years and are in a pool forum I'm thinking you're a pretty experienced player.

I think I'm figuring you out, though. My late, great uncle Walter was the oddball in the family. He's the guy wearing a wet suit and straw hat on the beach. At the same time he was an accomplished person who hosted Marilyn Monroe at his beach house. You sound like that sort...maybe even a relative of Tramp Steamer, no? :)
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Walter White? Wow!! Wasn't he the guy who cooked cyrstal-meth on t.v.? Awesome, really!!
 
GoldenFlash said:
You can have all the feel and all the instinct in the world, but if you hit the ball in the wrong place it isn't going into the pocket.
An aiming "system" eliminates guesswork on where to hit the ball....but you still have to hit that spot. That's where the feel and instinct come into play.
Those Phillipino fellas are taught very early exactly WHERE to aim. Then they develop their mechanics to hit those spots over and over.
Becoming a champion requires, as most say, hours and hours of rehearsal. But, rehearsing the CORRECT things.
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So, Efren with his pumping gas stroke, and Bustamante, who looks like he's encircling the cue with the tip before making a stroke, are using systems?

If you were at the table, not knowing what systems existed, and you wanted to learn how to cut a ball in with outside English for example, because you missed it in a match or tournament, after missing the first few or dozen or few dozen or so, aiming at the theoretical "correct" line, you'd make an adjustment, possibly consciously, possibly, to compensate. You then ingrain that, and now think you're aiming at that theoretical line when you're probably not. Maybe it's a steer of the cue slightly, maybe it's aiming a bit thinner than the shot suggests, whatever. It's one reason why changing to a different cue can take some adjusting to.

I think some people are better at "figuring it out" for themselves through hundreds of hours of playing and trial-and-error, while others do better with drills and systems.
 
louieatienza said:
So, Efren with his pumping gas stroke, and Bustamante, who looks like he's encircling the cue with the tip before making a stroke, are using systems?

If you were at the table, not knowing what systems existed, and you wanted to learn how to cut a ball in with outside English for example, because you missed it in a match or tournament, after missing the first few or dozen or few dozen or so, aiming at the theoretical "correct" line, you'd make an adjustment, possibly consciously, possibly, to compensate. You then ingrain that, and now think you're aiming at that theoretical line when you're probably not. Maybe it's a steer of the cue slightly, maybe it's aiming a bit thinner than the shot suggests, whatever. It's one reason why changing to a different cue can take some adjusting to.

I think some people are better at "figuring it out" for themselves through hundreds of hours of playing and trial-and-error, while others do better with drills and systems.
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Yes, they are using systems. Anyone that can do anything repeatedly is using a system. They may not have a name for it other than "feel", and they may not be able to list all the steps to their system, but it is there, nonetheless.

Far too many on here take the word "system" as a derogatory word, when it is anything but that. You don't like using the structure of a defined aiming system, but would rather play by feel. And, in the process of eliminating actual defined structure from your game, you also erroneously eliminated a word associated with it.
 
Neil said:
Yes, they are using systems. Anyone that can do anything repeatedly is using a system. They may not have a name for it other than "feel", and they may not be able to list all the steps to their system, but it is there, nonetheless.
Far too many on here take the word "system" as a derogatory word, when it is anything but that. You don't like using the structure of a defined aiming system, but would rather play by feel. And, in the process of eliminating actual defined structure from your game, you also erroneously eliminated a word associated with it.
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You're 100% correct.
Isn't it astounding that all the pool room detectives cannot seem to grasp the obvious aspects of what you just stated.
 
Neil said:
Yes, they are using systems. Anyone that can do anything repeatedly is using a system. They may not have a name for it other than "feel", and they may not be able to list all the steps to their system, but it is there, nonetheless.

Far too many on here take the word "system" as a derogatory word, when it is anything but that. You don't like using the structure of a defined aiming system, but would rather play by feel. And, in the process of eliminating actual defined structure from your game, you also erroneously eliminated a word associated with it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6Y2qoCtdiak#t=2696
" I just look a little bit thicker"
 
Neil said:
And that is the system he uses to adjust for squirt.
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At that distance, no.
He doesn't even know what squirt is.
He and Efren spin that ball a lot b/c they grew up on cheap balls and cloth.

Whenever we ask Efren how to shoot a shot, he always said " the pato ( cueball ) is here ".
He uses a combination of ghost ball and ghost pocket.
 
JoeyInCali said:
At that distance, no.
He doesn't even know what squirt is.
He and Efren spin that ball a lot b/c they grew up on cheap balls and cloth.

Whenever we ask Efren how to shoot a shot, he always said " the pato ( cueball ) is here ".
He uses a combination of ghost ball and ghost pocket.
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:thud: ..........
 
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