Things I've learned here and know to be true.

Thank you for chiming in Joeyln. I have not researched all pro players and their sponsors, but it seems logical to assume that sponsorship is a part of most pros life if they are not independently wealthy. As stated by many others....pros need all the help they can get. Product suppliers recognise the value of " celebrity" and the R. O. I. achieved by its use. Do they cover all expenses for all players.....HELL no....do they add $ to the pot if a player wins with their equipment....?......wouldn't surprise me. Without firsthand knowledge we are relegated to educated guesses......Advertising budgets for most major companys have a line reserved for "Endorsements"
 
danquixote said:
Thank you for chiming in Joeyln. I have not researched all pro players and their sponsors, but it seems logical to assume that sponsorship is a part of most pros life if they are not independently wealthy. As stated by many others....pros need all the help they can get. Product suppliers recognise the value of " celebrity" and the R. O. I. achieved by its use. Do they cover all expenses for all players.....HELL no....do they add $ to the pot if a player wins with their equipment....?......wouldn't surprise me. Without firsthand knowledge we are relegated to educated guesses......Advertising budgets for most major companys have a line reserved for "Endorsements"
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Believe me, most of them are begging for sponsors.
A lot of pros have hustled custom cue makers in the past .
They would get cues as part of the deal and they didn't live up to their agreement.
So, today, most custom cue makers are reluctant to sponsor any pro player.
The joke was, all pro player have lost cues in the airport or pool hall.
They would sell their cues and claim they were stolen or lost in the airport.
So, their poor sucker, err sponsor cue maker, would have to make them cues again.
 
A little hustle here , a little hustle there doesn't make you a bad guy. Some players you just have to go after. Believe me, there will be some coming after you.
 
Pushout said:
Sorry, no. I am an alcoholic, recovering. 39 years sober. I never shook and I played when I drank and vise versa. In the course of my recovery, which is still ongoing, I've met thousands of alcoholics. Comparing the ones who DID shake versus the ones who DIDN'T, the ones who did shook in the morning only and had to drink to get started. I've known a good many drunks who play pool over the years and met very, very few, if any who had to drink because of shakes before they played.
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Congrats on the 39 years. 13 here.Johnnyt
 
Ched said:
I can't speak for Doc, but here's my take. There are a TON of folks who are functioning alcoholics - they get up every morning, go to work, pay their bills, and at the end of the day sit down with some beer or whatever. You see this a lot in "bar players" - work all day, and relax by having a few drinks and shooting some pool. Many of the amateur leagues are filled with such players. It's nature and habit for them to have a few drinks while they're shooting.

If you take away be booze - it takes them out of their element, and induces a discomfort zone. The tension increases, and they don't play as well.

Other folks don't really care for the booze, and would rather concentrate on the game itself.

Neither is wrong or right - it's just life. For myself, I fit somewhere in the middle. On league night - I don't drink until after my match - then I have a few with the folks. Same with any tournaments I get into. I'm not a good player by any means, but I keep trying to get better.

Some folks tense up at the word "alcoholic" - it's been given a stigma by society. They get defensive, when really there's no need to. Congrats to you for you long history of sobriety .. it's indeed something to be proud of (especially if drinking is something you crave.)

I don't think Doc intended to "refer" to anyone as an alcoholic, but was just making a general observation from a medical standpoint. .... but I'm just guessing on that part.
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I get what you are saying and I'm well aware of it. I changed my response, I was referring to the shakes, as he put it, and wasn't very clear as to when I was playing and drinking. I'm not sure where he was going with it.
 
This is the total truth. MANY famous cuemakers have told me stories about getting ripped off by pro players (some very recognizable names past and present). "Sponsorship" for most pros who have one (or more) generally means they are getting some free equipment. Almost nobody is getting serious financial sponsorship.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

JoeyInCali said:
Believe me, most of them are begging for sponsors.
A lot of pros have hustled custom cue makers in the past .
They would get cues as part of the deal and they didn't live up to their agreement.
So, today, most custom cue makers are reluctant to sponsor any pro player.
The joke was, all pro player have lost cues in the airport or pool hall.
They would sell their cues and claim they were stolen or lost in the airport.
So, their poor sucker, err sponsor cue maker, would have to make them cues again.
Click to expand...
 
Pushout said:
I wasn't clear, I guess. I drank in bars and didn't have the shakes nor did I need to drink before I played. I just drank, period. I couldn't drink in commercial billiard rooms because it was illegal in NYS at that time. My whole point was about the shakes, you seem to have gone in another direction?
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I get that.

I did mention the shakes. Perhaps I over-emphasized that.

My point is that those who feel they play better on alcohol are most likely either abusing it or are alcoholic.

The classic case is the one who feels it "calms his nerves". This, when exaggerated, is classically seen as the morning shakes, as you pointed out. But the reality is that even without shakes, feeling that it "calms the nerves" is in fact an indication of abuse or alcoholism...and a fairly strong indicator in fact.

It's also true that most will not want to admit these things. But you know that very well as a recovering alcoholic. They will create every excuse possible until and unless they recognize the problem. Even then, admitting all aspects of it can be very difficult, and they easily backslide on it.

As an aside, your own continued recovery should be congratulated. I can only imagine how hard that has been, especially in the beginning.



.
 
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Ched said:
I can't speak for Doc, but here's my take. There are a TON of folks who are functioning alcoholics - they get up every morning, go to work, pay their bills, and at the end of the day sit down with some beer or whatever. You see this a lot in "bar players" - work all day, and relax by having a few drinks and shooting some pool. Many of the amateur leagues are filled with such players. It's nature and habit for them to have a few drinks while they're shooting.

If you take away be booze - it takes them out of their element, and induces a discomfort zone. The tension increases, and they don't play as well.

Other folks don't really care for the booze, and would rather concentrate on the game itself.

Neither is wrong or right - it's just life. For myself, I fit somewhere in the middle. On league night - I don't drink until after my match - then I have a few with the folks. Same with any tournaments I get into. I'm not a good player by any means, but I keep trying to get better.

Some folks tense up at the word "alcoholic" - it's been given a stigma by society. They get defensive, when really there's no need to. Congrats to you for you long history of sobriety .. it's indeed something to be proud of (especially if drinking is something you crave.)

I don't think Doc intended to "refer" to anyone as an alcoholic, but was just making a general observation from a medical standpoint. .... but I'm just guessing on that part.
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The term is certainly loaded.

No, I didn't mean to refer to anybody. I only meant to characterize the drug and how people experience it.

Certainly a drink can be felt to calm the nerves and one isn't an alcoholic. It is a common knowledge...liquid courage.

I am talking about habitually feeling that one performs better with it. It's not a good sign.

Many can hold their liquor pretty well. It is an individual thing. I am not talking about that.

After three drinks my game definitely degrades. And I am a regular hard liquor drinker. Four or more drinks? I'll play...and I may pull off a few decent games, but I know I can't show you my true speed.


For the record guys...I am not judging anybody. I am a regular drinker. Seriously. I drink, I smoke, I ride Harleys, and I married a red head.



.
 
Chopdoc said:
The term is certainly loaded.

No, I didn't mean to refer to anybody. I only meant to characterize the drug and how people experience it.

Certainly a drink can be felt to calm the nerves and one isn't an alcoholic. It is a common knowledge...liquid courage.

I am talking about habitually feeling that one performs better with it. It's not a good sign.

Many can hold their liquor pretty well. It is an individual thing. I am not talking about that.

After three drinks my game definitely degrades. And I am a regular hard liquor drinker. Four or more drinks? I'll play...and I may pull off a few decent games, but I know I can't show you my true speed.


For the record guys...I am not judging anybody. I am a regular drinker. Seriously. I drink, I smoke, I ride Harleys, and I married a red head.



.
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YOU MARRIED A REDHEAD???? .... you ARE a brave man. :) :thumbup:

I used to like to drink a lot more .. but noticed that the last few years it just doesn't taste as good. Never did like the hard stuff, just beer. I'll still have a couple to be sociable .. but it just doesn't sit as well as it used to.
 
Scott Lee said:
This is the total truth. MANY famous cuemakers have told me stories about getting ripped off by pro players (some very recognizable names past and present). "Sponsorship" for most pros who have one (or more) generally means they are getting some free equipment. Almost nobody is getting serious financial sponsorship.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

.

:angry:



Yeah...Buddy Hall loved his free cues.

He'd get one then sell it and move on to another one....



.
 
Chopdoc said:
I get that.

I did mention the shakes. Perhaps I over-emphasized that.

My point is that those who feel they play better on alcohol are most likely either abusing it or are alcoholic.

The classic case is the one who feels it "calms his nerves". This, when exaggerated, is classically seen as the morning shakes, as you pointed out. But the reality is that even without shakes, feeling that it "calms the nerves" is in fact an indication of abuse or alcoholism...and a fairly strong indicator in fact.

It's also true that most will not want to admit these things. But you know that very well as a recovering alcoholic. They will create every excuse possible until and unless they recognize the problem. Even then, admitting all aspects of it can be very difficult, and they easily backslide on it.

As an aside, your own continued recovery should be congratulated. I can only imagine how hard that has been, especially in the beginning.



.
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Now, all that said, the best player that I've known personally, the first time I saw him play he was giving up 150 to 100 and he shook so badly every time he stood to chalk his cue that I was afraid he would drop it. He didn't, and ran 102 and out. Horrendous hangover and as I said, NY was dry in pool rooms until '97. I tipped few with him from time to time:rolleyes: The only time I remember playing there drunk I was at a bowling banquet before I got there. I was smart enough to realize that I couldn't play well that way and that was the only time. In the bars was a different story:p
By the way, I sat down with this guy many years later and talked about his time on the road. He was a world class Straight Pool player and played very, very good 9 ball also. He said he only lost a significant amount to two people. One was Buddy Hall and the other someone he didn't know. I found out just recently that the other guy was none other than cuemaker Bill Stroud, still on the road himself. Bill said he just caught a gear that match and won, said it wouldn't have happened any other time. My friend beat everyone else around. This was at Beany's place in the late '60s/very early '70s.
 
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Tell Kirkwood he can't play on 30 beers lol. Get your dough out and give it a shot. Please report back with results:grin:
Jason
 
jasonlaus said:
Tell Kirkwood he can't play on 30 beers lol. Get your dough out and give it a shot. Please report back with results:grin:
Jason
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I was thinking the same thing.:grin: But there is always the exception to the rule, and he is it. Porky (Norm Wines) was another one.
 
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