How do you know you need an Aiming System?

[Low500]

1. so you have no heart to play anyone decent, you just prey on the non-players.
2. You aren't learning anything except how to play when you can't win, a losers mentality is all you are learning. My advice, just buy a beer and watch him practice, then buy him dinner and pick his brain. OR. Get him to give you a spot to make it competitive, much much better for both of you. Then you both have to play to win and you will learn much more that way.
3. Yea i've lost a few and admit it, unlike most on here who never lose. But i've won a few also. I like beating the better players who exhibit the signs of no heart, they choke and make it easier on me. They choke just about every time, but they also pull up easily so you can't make big scores against most of them. I'd rather play then take my balls and go home.

Ray Martin, an expert professional pool player, made the statement once at an exhibition that......"those who dwell on how others will choke are usually the ones who choke the worse themselves".
Seems to be a psychological desire to punish oneself. ??
I just wonder.................

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Yes, prepare for a lot of scoffs until the first 20' putt is sunk. I got pretty good at it and it was a lot of fun to putt this way.

Was/is the putter center shafted or heel shafted?

 

[Bobkitty]

I'm not sure why you are humoring this line of questioning. He's just going to keep berating and baiting you until you agree with him.

Oh! I thought Spidy had a prize or something for the winner.

 

[Bobkitty]

Was/is the putter center shafted or heel shafted?

The 50" Callaway 2ball makes an excellent putter for this style. I used that but then had a special center shafted putter made up for me.

 

[BC21]

If anyone thinks they can look at a pool ball several feet away and determine exactly where to hit another ball into in for a 3/8 or 1/4 ball hit without an element of guesswork in my opinion, is are full of it. I did buy the book and while the theory may or may not be accurate is irrelevant to me. You still have to see the portions accurately to use it accurately, which is were I personally saw a break down. One could argue that CTE users have the same argument because they have to see fractions to determine their perception of the shot. I do use CTE, and for me it's much more accurate. The reason is that in CTE I don't use the fraction for an aiming point, it is for the perception. The target is not at a fraction of a ball, it's the cueball, every shot. Determine the perception, step into the shot, and aim at the cueball. So to me, it's easier and more accurate. This is not an attack on anyone, it's just what my experience has taught me. I'm sure both systems can be helpful to someone.

Fair enough. There are no magic systems, as all of them require a player's individual input, whether it's a visual perception, a fractional aim point, a contact point, or whatever. That's where practice comes in. Seeing the portions is easy once you do it a few times and see the results. Just as the final bridge placement and pivot or sweep is easy to see for those who've practiced pivot or sweep style systems. Ghostball users would say it's easy to see gb center also. With enough practice, any system begins to work. Some just require more time than others.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Most players use the Jack Nicklaus method of finding an off color blade of grass, leaf, something that is on the line a few feet out from the ball. That is what I always used. Then I worked hard on alignment. Diverging parallel lines. In other words, the feet, hips, shoulders should point 25 yards left for the drive (right hand golfer).

DING, DING, DING, We have a winner. No prize, just a pat on the back with a "well done."

That's exactly right about standing directly behind the ball on line either straight to the pin or right or left of it if you want to hit a straight shot to one side or the other because of the slope in the green or to start the ball there and work it with a cut or draw back to the pin. Then you work backwards to the spot a few feet from the ball as you stated and align the body parallel to the spot from there

There's one other thing that has to be "aimed" properly. The club face to the spot in front of you. This is first before arranging the stance and body. Straight, or slightly closed or open to move the ball left or right.

Are we in agreement? I am. If so with you, a milestone has been made.

Next: How does one AIM on the putting green? Yes, there IS AIMING.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The 50" Callaway 2ball makes an excellent putter for this style. I used that but then had a special center shafted putter made up for me.

It was probably OK a few years ago but a center shafted putter with side saddle is now illegal. It has to be heel shafted.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I'm not sure why you are humoring this line of questioning. He's just going to keep berating and baiting you until you agree with him.

The way I see it is demwhit knows what he's talking about regarding AIMING in golf.
You don't in golf or pool.

 

[Bobkitty]

It was probably OK a few years ago but a center shafted putter with side saddle is now illegal. It has to be heel shafted.

Well, I'll defer to you but there are different rules for amateurs and professionals. I think the "anchoring" rule is still not in effect for amateurs but is for the pros. I had to quit golf 4 years ago because of neck surgeries so haven't kept up.

 

[Bobkitty]

DING, DING, DING, We have a winner. No prize, just a pat on the back with a "well done."

That's exactly right about standing directly behind the ball on line either straight to the pin or right or left of it if you want to hit a straight shot to one side or the other because of the slope in the green or to start the ball there and work it with a cut or draw back to the pin. Then you work backwards to the spot a few feet from the ball as you stated and align the body parallel to the spot from there

There's one other thing that has to be "aimed" properly. The club face to the spot in front of you. This is first before arranging the stance and body. Straight, or slightly closed or open to move the ball left or right.

Are we in agreement? I am. If so with you, a milestone has been made.

Next: How does one AIM on the putting green? Yes, there IS AIMING.

Different players, different methods but I Stand behind the ball and imagine the arc the ball will take to the hole. Try to make the golf ball roll over something 1-2 feet out on that arc. The better players miss on the high side because the ball can fall in from the top side but never from the low side.

 

[bbb]

If anyone thinks they can look at a pool ball several feet away and determine exactly where to hit another ball into in for a 3/8 or 1/4 ball hit without an element of guesswork in my opinion, is are full of it. I did buy the book and while the theory may or may not be accurate is irrelevant to me. You still have to see the portions accurately to use it accurately, which is were I personally saw a break down. One could argue that CTE users have the same argument because they have to see fractions to determine their perception of the shot. I do use CTE, and for me it's much more accurate. The reason is that in CTE I don't use the fraction for an aiming point, it is for the perception. The target is not at a fraction of a ball, it's the cueball, every shot. Determine the perception, step into the shot, and aim at the cueball. So to me, it's easier and more accurate. This is not an attack on anyone, it's just what my experience has taught me. I'm sure both systems can be helpful to someone.

maybe for all newbies to cte they should buy poololgy first so they can easily and accurately see and learn the fractions and then use the cte method........
brian helping stan (in a way)
now that might be a sort of sequel to THE ODD COUPLE movie....:yikes::wink:
problem is some may not go on to cte if they get to poololgy first..
i am being facetious and couldnt resist ( NO INTENTION TO OFFEND ANYONE )
i think stan has made a major contribution to pool and look forward to buying his material....:thumbup:
and i think brian has presented fractional aiming in a user freindly way to learn it
and a way to develop feel for shots....:thumbup:
JMHO
ICBW

 

[skip100]

DING, DING, DING, We have a winner. No prize, just a pat on the back with a "well done."

That's exactly right about standing directly behind the ball on line either straight to the pin or right or left of it if you want to hit a straight shot to one side or the other because of the slope in the green or to start the ball there and work it with a cut or draw back to the pin. Then you work backwards to the spot a few feet from the ball as you stated and align the body parallel to the spot from there

There's one other thing that has to be "aimed" properly. The club face to the spot in front of you. This is first before arranging the stance and body. Straight, or slightly closed or open to move the ball left or right.

Are we in agreement? I am. If so with you, a milestone has been made.

Next: How does one AIM on the putting green? Yes, there IS AIMING.

The idea that every top golfer uses an intermediate point when aiming and aligning is preposterous. There is no "one way" to align your body properly.

I'd love to have your self-assurance though :thumbup: On second thought, if you think you already know everything, then you never learn anything.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The idea that every top golfer uses an intermediate point when aiming and aligning is preposterous.

Hack amateurs don't but it's clear as day when you watch EVERY pro player on TV each week..

There is no "one way" to align your body properly.

Body alignment changes with the type of shot played and irregular lie.

I'd love to have your self-assurance though :thumbup: On second thought, if you think you already know everything, then you never learn anything.

Sounds like you think you know everything.

 

[cookie man]

Ray Martin, an expert professional pool player, made the statement once at an exhibition that......"those who dwell on how others will choke are usually the ones who choke the worse themselves".
Seems to be a psychological desire to punish oneself. ??
I just wonder.................

Wonder all you want. I don't dwell on chokers or even go out of my way to find them. As i stated they are really bad action as they usually pull up right away. But they are pretty easy to spot.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Well, I'll defer to you but there are different rules for amateurs and professionals. I think the "anchoring" rule is still not in effect for amateurs but is for the pros. I had to quit golf 4 years ago because of neck surgeries so haven't kept up.

If an amateur plays in a USGA event, he/she falls under the same USGA rules and must conform.

As far as an amateur playing with his buddies at a golf club or public course they pretty much do as they wish. But what ends up happening is if the guy using an outlawed method such as anchoring or a club, especially a putter, and is making too many putts for the cash, his buddies won't be his buddies very long and insist he follows the new rules for the pros and makes a change to conform.

If he putts like crap with the putter/method, they'll let it slide and say nothing as long as they're tapping into his pocket.

 

[BC21]

If an amateur plays in a USGA event, he/she falls under the same USGA rules and must conform.

As far as an amateur playing with his buddies at a golf club or public course they pretty much do as they wish. But what ends up happening is if the guy using an outlawed method such as anchoring or a club, especially a putter, and is making too many putts for the cash, his buddies won't be his buddies very long and insist he follows the new rules for the pros and makes a change to conform.

If he putts like crap with the putter/method, they'll let it slide and say nothing as long as they're tapping into his pocket.

Like a pool player using only the shaft of the cue stick to jump a ball. I've let it slide because the cash in my pocket wasn't in the game.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Different players, different methods but I Stand behind the ball and imagine the arc the ball will take to the hole. Try to make the golf ball roll over something 1-2 feet out on that arc. The better players miss on the high side because the ball can fall in from the top side but never from the low side.

1-2 feet out on the arc is your "target". But since it was said there's no aiming in golf or pool (not by you) which is total BS, there are ways to AIM to the target and it must be done whether it's an intermediate target like yours factoring in slope and speed or the cup itself.

The primary way aiming takes place since the beginning of golf is with the putter face itself. Some players use entire face, the bottom base of the face and others use the top line of the face set either directly to the intermediate target, the cup, or outside the cup once the amount of break is calculated or guessed in many cases.

Many putters have a line on top of the face or behind it to aim at the target and many players do.

Your putter, the Odyssey two ball is a great aiming putter which ends up being a three ball putter with the real ball lined up in front the other two at address.

Putter design over the years has really made aiming easier and more accurate. A number of putters by different manufacturers have two prongs attached on the right and left side back of the putter which frames the ball and target accurately.

A favorite on tour now is the Taylormade putter used by Dustin Johnson, Jason Day, and John Rahm which has beautiful lines to make aiming more accurate.
Adam Scott has a putter made by Titleist which looks like an alien space ship but also easy and accurate to aim.

And then we have the ball itself to aim. Some ingenious experimenter a few years back designed a plastic cover with a slit in it to go over the golf ball and then run a Sharpie into the slit to draw a line around half the golf ball.

Many of the pros now use the line on the ball to accurately set it up to the cup or inside or outside for the break. They do it so painstakingly perfect that it's a pain in the arse to watch how long it takes for them to fidget around with it.

So YES, there's a helluva lot of aiming in golf just like pool.

Just to make something clear, what I posted about golf so it's not thought I'm a know it all or a great golfer, I'm not!

I'm a mid to high 80 player which gives me no right to tell the world all about golf as far as what's right or wrong. So I didn't.

I contacted a very good friend that lives out of state who has been a top teaching pro for over 3 decades and super player to address aiming in the full swing and putting.

Everything I posted is from him who has been entrusted by other pros to help with their games.

If you don't agree, so be it. The nature of forums. However, he would be more than willing to play anyone here for a friendly $500 Nassau with automatic 2 down presses. Your choice of match or medal play. If you want to add to it, $10 for long drive on par 4's and 5's; greenies; closest to the pin on par 3's.

And if the distance is too far from where you/he lives, he knows other pros all over the country who would be more than willing to step in and accept your challenge.

Just throwing it out there for any interested takers/non aimers who think they have the game and something to prove.

That's it for the golf stuff. I don't want to take up his time any more and I'm not exactly qualified.

 

[Bobkitty]

The primary way aiming takes place since the beginning of golf is with the putter face itself.
Many putters have a line on top of the face or behind it to aim at the target and many players do.


around half the golf ball.


So YES, there's a helluva lot of aiming in golf just like pool.

Just to make something clear, what I posted about golf so it's not thought I'm a know it all or a great golfer, I'm not!

I'm a mid to high 80 player which gives me no right to tell the world all about golf as far as what's right or wrong. So I didn't.

I contacted a very good friend that lives out of state who has been a top teaching pro for over 3 decades and super player to address aiming in the full swing and putting.

Everything I posted is from him who has been entrusted by other pros to help with their games.

If you don't agree, so be it. The nature of forums. However, he would be more than willing to play anyone here for a friendly $500 Nassau with automatic 2 down presses. Your choice of match or medal play. If you want to add to it, $10 for long drive on par 4's and 5's; greenies; closest to the pin on par 3's.

And if the distance is too far from where you/he lives, he knows other pros all over the country who would be more than willing to step in and accept your challenge.

Just throwing it out there for any interested takers/non aimers who think they have the game and something to prove.

That's it for the golf stuff. I don't want to take up his time any more and I'm not exactly qualified.

You are correct about "aiming in golf". I had forgotten about the line on the golf ball and lines on the putter.
But, it amazes me how people "throw out these challenges"? I mean, Phil Mickelson might be on here. God, wouldn't it be rich to hear your pro friend got a call: "Hey, just read your challenge and wanted you to know I'll be in town next week. Let's tee it up for the cash" " Who are you?" "Oh, I was number 1 at OSU, Just graduated and need some money"
Most teaching pros are not that sharp. Teaching golf takes a toll on a professional player's skill after a few years. I mean, almost any touring pro or kid just out of college and in the top 5 of his golf team would instantly take your "teaching pro" up on that bet. My son played golf for UNLV 20 years ago, was extremely long off the tee and back then would oblige him. He's CEO of a national company today but still can shoot par golf the few times a year when he plays.
There is an old saying about golf and probably pertains to pool; It takes a club pro 3 tries to demonstrate a shot, a teaching pro 2 times and a tour pro can do it the first time.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

You are correct about "aiming in golf". I had forgotten about the line on the golf ball and lines on the putter.

Don't forget about the face of the putter itself because it IS what strikes the ball and the ball goes in the direction the face is pointing. Proof of how important that is came about and to an abrupt end a few years ago when caddies (on the LPGA) crouched down a few feet directly behind the ball on a line to the hole while the player addressed it. He helped her AIM the putter face right on the target and told her to "GO" and then stepped away because it was illegal for him to stay there.

An outrage erupted and eventually the USGA and the LPGA, PGA deemed the entire outside assistance illegal. It was the FACE aiming the putter better seen by being right behind the ball than from up high with a distorted angle.

But, it amazes me how people "throw out these challenges"? I mean, Phil Mickelson might be on here. God, wouldn't it be rich to hear your pro friend got a call: "Hey, just read your challenge and wanted you to know I'll be in town next week. Let's tee it up for the cash" " Who are you?" "Oh, I was number 1 at OSU, Just graduated and need some money"

He or anyone else who finds out Phil Mickelson is calling him can just learn from you. Be a total scaredy cat NIT and walk away to happier hunting grounds.

But since this is a POOL FORUM the chance of a touring PGA pro being an active member on here is 0%. But there are plenty of hacks and wannabe golfers on here like Skip and you who he and many other pros would clean out like it was taking candy from a baby.

Most teaching pros are not that sharp. Teaching golf takes a toll on a professional player's skill after a few years.

You're speaking from a total position of ignorance. There are a good number of "teaching pros" who still play in many tournaments that are held locally in their section, state, and nationally. They choose NOT to be head pros of a club because their skills would deteriorate being in a pro shop everyday tending to running a smooth operation. They only TEACH and PLAY. In his case, unless precluded by weather, he hasn't and doesn't miss a day without pounding balls and/or playing his entire career. And here you are acting like you know what he does from 2000 + miles away.

I mean, almost any touring pro or kid just out of college and in the top 5 of his golf team would instantly take your "teaching pro" up on that bet. My son played golf for UNLV 20 years ago, was extremely long off the tee and back then would oblige him. He's CEO of a national company today but still can shoot par golf the few times a year when he plays.

Yep, you and your son. Two of the greatest golfers and pool players the world has NEVER SEEN.

There is an old saying about golf and probably pertains to pool; It takes a club pro 3 tries to demonstrate a shot, a teaching pro 2 times and a tour pro can do it the first time.

If that's the case, it would take you 100 times or more. And it takes a "newbie" know it all pool forum member his entire life to know when to shut his mouth once.

At least I didn't do what you did. I told the truth about who was giving the information regarding aiming for the swing and putting. I didn't make myself out to be a world beater and phony like you with the BS pool lies.

 

[Bobkitty]

If that's the case, it would take you 100 times or more. And it takes a "newbie" know it all pool forum member his entire life to know when to shut his mouth once.

At least I didn't do what you did. I told the truth about who was giving the information regarding aiming for the swing and putting. I didn't make myself out to be a world beater and phony like you with the BS pool lies.

I didn't do any of that either. You made it seem that way with your distortions, twists, etc. of everything I wrote. But, that is your M.O.
Don't you want to post some kind of challenge at pool? Hopefully, you will and someone will stick it up your ***. Oh, that would be fun to watch.