Tony Chohan Interview - "APA takes in 26mm, pays out 1mm"

strmanglr scott said:
Harvey Penick one of golf's greatest all time teachers said Always put some money on the game. Whether it be a quarter or fifty cents a hole. It doesn't mean anything if nothing is on the line. You'll concentrate more and be more ready to handle bigger matches where more is on the line. You get used to playing w some pressure.

If the apa wants to rape it's voluntary subjects and those subject volunteer themselves and those numbers are correct, then yeah, get what you deserve.
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Just when you think you have heard it all from apa haters. Rape ? Lmao :grin-square:

Apa is a for profit business that caters to a select clientele. I have no idea if Tony's numbers are correct but its none of mine....yours....or any one elses business how much profit they earn.

When I go buy a car I dont base my choice on which brand due to their profit margin so why should I choose to play in a leaque....or not based on their profit margin ? Reading this thread gives credence to pool players negative reputation.

As for the subject of playing for something brings out a higher level of play from a person..... I completely agree with that sentiment. I play entirely different in a Vegas qualifier than I do on a regular league night. So do an until number of other players in apa.

Yet we are called sandbaggers when our level of play escalates when some thing is on the line. However when a serious or non league player does the same thing when money is on the line its called a reason to focus. I myself just dont see the difference between an apa player and a serious player in these situations.
 
lorider said:
Just when you think you have heard it all from apa haters. Rape ? Lmao :grin-square:

Apa is a for profit business that caters to a select clientele. I have no idea if Tony's numbers are correct but its none of mine....yours....or any one elses business how much profit they earn.

When I go buy a car I dont base my choice on which brand due to their profit margin so why should I choose to play in a leaque....or not based on their profit margin ? Reading this thread gives credence to pool players negative reputation.

As for the subject of playing for something brings out a higher level of play from a person..... I completely agree with that sentiment. I play entirely different in a Vegas qualifier than I do on a regular league night. So do an until number of other players in apa.
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Lmao :) "the apa haters" that's funny. I have no flippn clue about how the apa works, the handicap system, the league night play, any of it, never seen it.

So, my opinion of raping has nothing to do with the apa player experience, other than payout.

I'm all for a business running it's business as it sees best.

But for any business to run that kind of profit margin Is raping it's consumer.

I understand administrative costs, but that still leaves a yuge margin.

I could not get into such a league just based on that.

If the numbers are true, which again I will admit ignorance on the apa....

There is a great opportunity for a non-profit national league operation.

Imagine that payout?

Imagine what that would do for the game?
 
I got to add on "gamblin".

When I refer to some money on the game, it's just that.

I'm not talking about going out and hustling. Likewise I don't get hustled and know how to stay out of that. But I would never bet more than even if I was being set-up I could still afford to lose.

League play is a form of gambling.

Any tournament w an entry fee is gambling.

You will never see my best game w out money on the line, unless you really piss me off during play.

Any game I play that isn't for money in some way is practice to me. I would gladly lose a practice game to learn something new.
 
strmanglr scott said:
Lmao :) "the apa haters" that's funny. I have no flippn clue about how the apa works, the handicap system, the league night play, any of it, never seen it.

So, my opinion of raping has nothing to do with the apa player experience, other than payout.

I'm all for a business running it's business as it sees best.

But for any business to run that kind of profit margin Is raping it's consumer.

I understand administrative costs, but that still leaves a yuge margin.

I could not get into such a league just based on that.

If the numbers are true, which again I will admit ignorance on the apa....

There is a great opportunity for a non-profit national league operation.

Imagine that payout?

Imagine what that would do for the game?
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Well forgive me if I mistook you for an spa hater. There are quite a few haters on this board and they type much the same as you did in regards to negative comments about apa.

Yes I am also ignorant to how much profit apa makes and would be interested in how Tony came up with those figures.

Iirc correctly most of the weekly fees goes to the lo who purchased a franchise. Now before you state the lo's must be raping players you have to understand that it usually takes a while for him to recoup the purchase price before he starts making a profit.

The lo's have expenses also. They purchase an untold number of patches...plaques and trophies.....not to mention having to pay for all the teams trips to nationals.

I believe our lo sends a total of 8 teams to Vegas. He also is sending a team to Hawaii this year. Also sends players to singles nationals...not sure how many of those.

It would be safe to Sa our lo spends close to 30.000.00 just for players to go to nationals. He also has to pay for his own 2 trips to nationals every year.....singles and teams which at held on different dates.some have assistants that they have to pay also.


If you want to talk about raping a pool player we can talk about cue dealers and flippers . ...based on my personal experience and what I have read on here.
 
jalapus logan said:
Thorston hohman doesn't gamble to my knowledge and he is a world class player. Perpetuating the myth that gambling makes a player better is pure folly. I bet on pool from time to time, but has never made me a better player, though I won some and lost some.
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Yeah, but what would happen to Thorston tomorrow if a player equal to him offered him the eight ball for 20k. Thorsten would probably shit himself and say no. World class means different things to different people I suppose. Thorsten has certainly proven he's a world class tournament player. If he wants to go beyond that (and say reach an efren caliber for example), he'd have to change his ways.
 
Leagues are the worst thing that ever happened to pool. I agree they are a business and should do their best to make as much as possible though. I think they ended pool in America though. Either that, or the timing of all the good players disappearing in relation to when leagues popped up is certainly a huge coincidence.
 
Ekojasiloop said:
Leagues are the worst thing that ever happened to pool. I agree they are a business and should do their best to make as much as possible though. I think they ended pool in America though. Either that, or the timing of all the good players disappearing in relation to when leagues popped up is certainly a huge coincidence.
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Please elaborate how leagues ended pool in America.


I'll be waiting.


200_s.gif
 
BeiberLvr said:
Please elaborate how leagues ended pool in America.
I'll be waiting.
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Not much of a wait. Only had to spend 30 seconds searching.
A whole thread that discusses "How Leagues are Ruining Pool".
***This is not my opinion.***
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=454958&highlight=Leagues

Actually Pool has been on a decline since the 1920's and was in real bad shape after WWII. Yes, yes. Point out the "Golden Years" after a couple of Pool movies came out. Pool's popularity at that time was nothing compared to the 1880's to 1920's.
 
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Ekojasiloop said:
Yeah, but what would happen to Thorston tomorrow if a player equal to him offered him the eight ball for 20k. Thorsten would probably shit himself and say no. World class means different things to different people I suppose. Thorsten has certainly proven he's a world class tournament player. If he wants to go beyond that (and say reach an efren caliber for example), he'd have to change his ways.
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Some people are not motivated by money. I know that is shocking to hear, but it's the truth. For me, the thrill of winning money is long gone. What's left is my love of the game and my desire to improve. Crazy I know.
 
different now

It's so different now than 70's, 80's and 90's, when there were so many
champions, and really good players around where I played. If nothing
was happening almost all of them would match up cheap and play, but
they wouldn't play for nothing. Louie, Buddy, Greg Stevens, etc would
always play, and make the game tight. You got to know them, and learn
plus you could ask them about certain shots and they would gladly show
you. You could play for hours (days with Greg Stevens) adjusting the
game. This put a little money in their pockets and kept them in stroke
while you learned and it didn't cost you all that much. I loved doing this
but my good buddy and partner DEANOC would never do this. He would
match up and bet it up with all of them. Sometimes we win sometimes
we don't, but you could always depend on DEANOC to play his speed
no matter who he played. He might miss some easy shots, but he didn't
dog them. Once I was playing Louie for $5 a game and missed a fairly
easy shot, he says Jack you keep missing balls like that you're going
to go broke. Well I come back with, it'll take a long time for me to go
broke at $5 a game. He lines up the 9 turns his head away like T.C.
in TCOM smiles fires it in while saying "I hope so". Hilarious. But those
days are gone and so to improve I guess it's tournaments, leagues
and a different mind set. Learn to play hard no matter what, for some
of us older guys it's not possible.
jack
 
Ekojasiloop said:
Yeah, but what would happen to Thorston tomorrow if a player equal to him offered him the eight ball for 20k. Thorsten would probably shit himself and say no. World class means different things to different people I suppose. Thorsten has certainly proven he's a world class tournament player. If he wants to go beyond that (and say reach an efren caliber for example), he'd have to change his ways.
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Sadly,

I kind of agree!

Based on my limited knowledge! He has a sponsor that pays for his airfare, hotel, and entry fee???

Pretty hard not to play your best when you have got "Nothing" to lose and "ALL" the upside if you win!!!

He does well against the players under "Monetary" pressure and there on their own dimes. Pretty unfair scenario??? One guy has the weight of the world on his shoulders playing and one guy has not a care in the world.

I truly believe this has worked well for many pro players with "Sponsors" it gives them an edge over the non-sponsored players. But, won't gamble with them and play under equal "Monetary" consequences.

I have kept this very generic and I would love to hear from a Pro-Player like Bergman how he feels about the subject???

KD
 
strmanglr scott said:
There is a great opportunity for a non-profit national league operation.
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The opportunity to work yourself to the bone for little or zero money. Man, what an opportunity. You can see why all the people are jumping on it!

Like BeiberLvr said, if it is such a great opportunity, then start one. Oh wait, that's right, like 99.99999999999999999999999% of the rest of the world, you don't like spending your life working for nothing either, and the few that do are going to pick a charity much more deserving than pool.

America's favorite pasttime is sitting around figuring out how to spend other people's time and money.
 
This whole argument misses the point. Most people do not play in leagues because they want to gamble their money or have a chance to win it back in prizes. They pay a few bucks a week because they want to have fun playing pool and hanging out with their friends.
 
mchnhed said:
Not much of a wait. Only had to spend 30 seconds searching.
A whole thread that discusses "How Leagues are Ruining Pool".
***This is not my opinion.***
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=454958&highlight=Leagues

Actually Pool has been on a decline since the 1920's and was in real bad shape after WWII. Yes, yes. Point out the "Golden Years" after a couple of Pool movies came out. Pool's popularity at that time was nothing compared to the 1880's to 1920's.
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I won't be reading that thread.

What I do know is that there are a shit ton (actual number) of people that play in all kinds of leagues all over America. As skip100 mentioned before me, most league players are just there to have fun and spend time with friends.

League players, as a whole, are much more likely to spend money on food and drink than tournament players. Love them or hate them, league players are what provide the majority of revenue to pool halls across the country that help keep them open.

So if people truly believe that leagues are ruining pool, then I'll politely bow out of the conversation. As my definition of "ruin" clearly differs from theirs.
 
I think there is room for both types of pool.
It's just that a lot of "players" do not tolerate, welcome or support noobs and ball bangers.

BTW.... Ekojasiloop never replied to your question about why he thinks leagues have ruined Pool.

BeiberLvr said:
I won't be reading that thread.

What I do know is that there are a shit ton (actual number) of people that play in all kinds of leagues all over America. As skip100 mentioned before me, most league players are just there to have fun and spend time with friends.

League players, as a whole, are much more likely to spend money on food and drink than tournament players. Love them or hate them, league players are what provide the majority of revenue to pool halls across the country that help keep them open.

So if people truly believe that leagues are ruining pool, then I'll politely bow out of the conversation. As my definition of "ruin" clearly differs from theirs.
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mchnhed said:
BTW.... Ekojasiloop never replied to your question about why he thinks leagues have ruined Pool.
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I will save him the trouble. He thinks pro pool is what makes pool as a whole popular, because the strongest players are what draw everyone to play pool to begin with. He also thinks leagues keep people from becoming super strong players, and therefore leagues are the cause for the lack of super strong and pro players, which in turn is what is keeping pool down because it is only the super strong players that draw the people in and make pool popular.

He also thinks that any two things that happen at the same time have to be related, even if the things are completely unrelated, because coincidence doesn't exist. He thinks leagues have been gaining in popularity over the years, while the rest of pool has been declining over the years, and therefore leagues have to be the cause of pool's decline since they are both happening at the same time, and all things happening at the same time are always related.

Yes I know there are some leaps of logic in there, but those were his basic arguments.
 
skip100 said:
This whole argument misses the point. Most people do not play in leagues because they want to gamble their money or have a chance to win it back in prizes. They pay a few bucks a week because they want to have fun playing pool and hanging out with their friends.
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We have a winner. :thumbup:

Very likely that Tony's numbers aren't accurate, but so what if they are? As for being forcibly fornicated, I get plenty of value for what I pay each week at league.
 
If Chohan is so smart he should run his own league and tourneys and swim in all the easy money.
 
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