World Pool Series - Pockets

garczar said:
Hypoth. situation: What if you had 4.5" openings but tight throats? What would such a set-up play like?
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Here's the rule oc thumb, the lower the miter number, the deeper the object balls are deflected into the throat of the pocket. The smaller the pocket opening, the tighter the throat. So while reducing the size of the pocket opening, you have to also back off some of the reduction in the size of the throat of the pocket in order to allow for balls to be deflected deeper into the throat of the pocket.
 
This all needs to be standardized. Locked down to one specification. The BCA needs to create a specification that gets there seal of approval. All tightening the pockets does is completely ruin the game. I just did a write up on a tournament I played where the games played where not only played on a combination of Diamonds and Gold Crowns but, the pockets were completely different sizes as you moved from one match to another. Everyone knows what happens when you tighten the pockets. What is more important to me is how it changes a players game as you see them tighten up. You have to adjust speed and even stroke. You shorten your stroke to compensate and the entire game now becomes a slow rolling ultra precise game. It's a boring yet aggravating game. You will see more safety's and more kicks. When a ball rattles it will either end up in the jaws or on one of the rails just outside the pocket. Rarely if ever do I see one kick out to the play field.

It plain and simply changes everything about the game.

What exactly are people trying to accomplish by tightening the pockets?

Set a standard and everyone lives by that standard. Period! Pro or amateur shouldn't matter. An amateur will miss a 5' reverse cut 9 times of 10 anyways. No matter if it's a 5" pocket or a 4".


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Correct me if i'm wrong...................

but isn't pool the only game where venue owner/director can change the target(pocket) size at will? Think about it: golf hole size, basketball rim, field-goal, soccer goal, home-plate,etc. All are standardized. It would be nice if ALL tables were same but it'll never happen. In a way its kinda cool in that it keeps players on their toes by constantly adjusting to different set-ups. A min/max rule "might" work.
 
Sigh. Here are the WPA pocket specifications. If the WPA had a lot more power, perhaps it could enforce them.

9. POCKET OPENINGS AND MEASUREMENTS
Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 [1.5875 mm] to maximum ¼ inch [6.35 mm] thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch [3.175 mm]. The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.

The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.

Vertical Pocket Angle (Back Draft): 12 degrees minimum to15 degrees maximum.

Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1). The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the side pocket entrance must be 104 degrees (+1).

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other – where the nose of the cushion changes direction – to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.

Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2 ¼ inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]​
 
garczar said:
but isn't pool the only game where venue owner/director can change the target(pocket) size at will? Think about it: golf hole size, basketball rim, field-goal, soccer goal, home-plate,etc. All are standardized. It would be nice if ALL tables were same but it'll never happen. In a way its kinda cool in that it keeps players on their toes by constantly adjusting to different set-ups. A min/max rule "might" work.
Click to expand...

Pool tables have always had a min/max dementions, it's just that this sport is full of couch potatoes that want to see everyone else struggle to pocket balls that truth be told, they themselves can't pocket, so they can sit back and say..."how in the hell did he MISS that shot, i could make that shot 9 out of 10 times, i guess he isn't as good as he thinks he is"
 
realkingcobra said:
If only you knew what you were talking about, you should stick to cues, you might know something about them:rolleyes:
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Says the clown who certified rails he admitted he never saw.
And keeps flip flopping about table specs.
Stick to motor cycles and kissing the pavement.
 
realkingcobra said:
Come on Joey....you're floundering in your own bs...LOL
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Lie and flip-flop some more pavement Glen.
You must be really getting senile .
Keeps flip flopping about table specs constantly.
And his opinion of WPA.

Take out your bike out for a spin.
Maybe this time it will improve your memory. :grin-square:
 
Bob Jewett said:
Sigh. Here are the WPA pocket specifications. If the WPA had a lot more power, perhaps it could enforce them.

9. POCKET OPENINGS AND MEASUREMENTS
Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 [1.5875 mm] to maximum ¼ inch [6.35 mm] thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch [3.175 mm]. The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.

The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.

Vertical Pocket Angle (Back Draft): 12 degrees minimum to15 degrees maximum.

Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1). The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the side pocket entrance must be 104 degrees (+1).

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other – where the nose of the cushion changes direction – to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.

Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2 ¼ inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]​
Click to expand...

Are you even aware who wrote these specs? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the BCA....they came from a table manufacture, not the players:rolleyes:
 
realkingcobra said:
Awwww, are you upset that i know who supplied the spec's and you don't? Take your meds Joey, it's clear you haven't been taking them lately:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Oh, wow! You got the inside scoop on who supplied them the specs.
Hooray!!! Let's send you a box of chocolates. We'll make sure they're low-carb.

Let's send you Mr. Cool trophy too.
 
realkingcobra said:
Are you even aware who wrote these specs? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the BCA....they came from a table manufacture, not the players:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Well, actually, I've had several conversations with that author of the table specifications about the importance of the having and maintaining standards.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Sigh. Here are the WPA pocket specifications. If the WPA had a lot more power, perhaps it could enforce them.

9. POCKET OPENINGS AND MEASUREMENTS
Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 [1.5875 mm] to maximum ¼ inch [6.35 mm] thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch [3.175 mm]. The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.

The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.

Vertical Pocket Angle (Back Draft): 12 degrees minimum to15 degrees maximum.

Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1). The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the side pocket entrance must be 104 degrees (+1).

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other – where the nose of the cushion changes direction – to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.

Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2 ¼ inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]​
Click to expand...

Hi Bill,

I know there is a specification. I say there should be a standard. Across the board! All tables made should get a stamp of approval. For instance I have other hobbies outside of pool.

1-Slot Machines

2-Model Railroading

Slot machines are MANDATED to pay within are certain payout percentage. This is determined by the sate and you CANT change it with out the state approving it. Its illegal!

Model railroading has a specification for track etc. There are tolerances but it's regulated and it is stamped with an NMRA approval.

The BCA should be doing the same! If a NEW table is built it should be within tolerances and carry that stamp. It needs to start somewhere. This should be carried through to all Professional tournaments and regulated. Good bad or indifferent it needs and should be the same. You cant stop someone from hacking a table but at least you will know what it SHOULD be. Pocket gauges and cushion gauges should be made. Made and distributed by the BCA. A representative whether its a tournament director or other should use these gauges to verify specification. If its out of spec then the table provider or venue needs to correct it. It that simple. Make the pockets at home 2.5" if you want. It wont improve your game but it will improve your game on that table.

This is not tough thing to start but, it just hasn't been started.
 
Johnnybgood said:
Hi (Bob),

I know there is a specification. I say there should be a standard. ...
Model railroading has a specification for track etc. There are tolerances but it's regulated and it is stamped with an NMRA approval. ...
Click to expand...
Sure, but if a set of wheels is 10% wide, it simply won't work, while if someone gets their pockets set at 5", you can more or less still play the game unless it is one pocket.

Should it be illegal for table mechanics to work on a table with anything other than 114mm pockets?

If a customer with money sprouting out of every pocket asks for just a little larger pocket 'cause his eyesight ain't what it used to be, is the table supplier supposed to say no?

As for the BCA going around to events to enforce a standard, who is going to pay for that travel? How are you going to make having a BCA sanction important enough so that people will pay a few thousand for one?
 
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Bob Jewett said:
Sure, but if a set of wheels is 10% wide, it simply won't work, while if someone gets their pockets set at 5", you can more or less still play the game unless it is one pocket.

Should it be illegal for table mechanics to work on a table with anything other than 114mm pockets?

If a customer with money sprouting out of every pocket asks for just a little larger pocket 'cause his eyesight ain't what it used to be, is the table supplier supposed to say no?

As for the BCA going around to events to enforce a standard, who is going to pay for that travel? How are you going to make having a BCA sanction important enough so that people will pay a few thousand for one?
Click to expand...



Just heard you ask score at the Tony and Dennis game. Haha


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Bob Jewett said:
Sure, but if a set of wheels is 10% wide, it simply won't work, while if someone gets their pockets set at 5", you can more or less still play the game unless it is one pocket.

Should it be illegal for table mechanics to work on a table with anything other than 114mm pockets?

If a customer with money sprouting out of every pocket asks for just a little larger pocket 'cause his eyesight ain't what it used to be, is the table supplier supposed to say no?

As for the BCA going around to events to enforce a standard, who is going to pay for that travel? How are you going to make having a BCA sanction important enough so that people will pay a few thousand for one?
Click to expand...



At home you can have whatever you want. At tournaments it should be enforced. By the tournament directors. The BCA provides the specs and measuring devices.

Look, I get what you are saying but these lack of standards are ruining the sport.


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