Peace proposal

[BC21]

Or maybe it's the complete opposite. Maybe it's so objective, so perfect, that no one should have been able to even conceive the notion of it. Except Hal Houle did. But he only gave Stan the framework to start with. From there Stan has broken it down and is putting it all out there in writing to be forever documented. I know enough and have used it enough to realize that it is indeed perfect. I've hit enough tough shots that go absolutely center pocket to be a believer.

Could be. But if it was that objective there wouldn't be a learning curve or a timeframe for developing the needed experience. I suppose it could be objective, but at the very very ambiguous, where it's almost impossible to see the simplicity of it. Though it does require a player to use judgement when choosing the correct perception, or when using the same perception to make multiple shots that would typically require a newbie to yse different perceptions.

 

[Bobkitty]

Could be. But if it was that objective there wouldn't be a learning curve or a timeframe for developing the needed experience. I suppose it could be objective, but at the very very ambiguous, where it's almost impossible to see the simplicity of it. Though it does require a player to use judgement when choosing the correct perception, or when using the same perception to make multiple shots that would typically require a newbie to yse different perceptions.

I would love to see it work. I know Stan is sincere with his statements and I know how Landon plays. But,... I think for me, it's got to be someone hands on that can explain it all. Just could not get it from the DVD. I'll order the book but I'm pessimistic about learning it from that.

 

[Neil]

Could be. But if it was that objective there wouldn't be a learning curve or a timeframe for developing the needed experience. I suppose it could be objective, but at the very very ambiguous, where it's almost impossible to see the simplicity of it. Though it does require a player to use judgement when choosing the correct perception, or when using the same perception to make multiple shots that would typically require a newbie to yse different perceptions.

There is a learning curve because people, like you, have a hard time letting go of what they think they know, and just following the directions. It is way different than conventional ways of aiming, and the two do not mix well at all.

And, trust me, you don't want to start going that "objective" road. It didn't end well for those that tried it in the past.

 

[stan shuffett]

Could be. But if it was that objective there wouldn't be a learning curve or a timeframe for developing the needed experience. I suppose it could be objective, but at the very very ambiguous, where it's almost impossible to see the simplicity of it. Though it does require a player to use judgement when choosing the correct perception, or when using the same perception to make multiple shots that would typically require a newbie to yse different perceptions.

There is a typically a learning curve for learning anything! CTE is a professional system.
I can reel off 100/100 correct perceptions and pivot directions.

A novice after 1 day of lessons can choose at 60 up to 80% of correct perceptions/pivots--and the ensuing climb to proficiency is simple enough with work. I have carefully chosen a few hundred shots in my book to assist any player towsrd developing a professional approach.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Dan White]

There is a learning curve because people, like you, have a hard time letting go of what they think they know, and just following the directions. It is way different than conventional ways of aiming, and the two do not mix well at all.

And, trust me, you don't want to start going that "objective" road. It didn't end well for those that tried it in the past.

You got that right. Stan simply berates and insults anybody who dares question "objectivity." He is ban-proof on AZ so can say whatever he pleases.

 

[BC21]

Ok, if you think that you see the perceptions correctly tell me this, you have two shots that are different angle, but concerning CTE they are both 15° perceptions, when you get that 15° CTE perception on both shots that are different angle, is the CB-OB overlap the same or different?

I don't know. Common sense tells me they have to be different because the angles are different. But you can get any perception from any two balls regardless of the actual angle, so I assume you are saying that I would have to know from experience to use a 15° perception for each angle. In other words, I could drop two balls or pucks or beer bottles onto the ground and find any visual perception I'm looking for. But you are saying I have to look at the angle and determine (based on my personal experience) which perception to use, correct?

 

[BC21]

There is a learning curve because people, like you, have a hard time letting go of what they think they know, and just following the directions. It is way different than conventional ways of aiming, and the two do not mix well at all.

And, trust me, you don't want to start going that "objective" road. It didn't end well for those that tried it in the past.

I surely don't want to start an objective vs subjective debate. Objective simply means the process involves no personal estimations or developed skills that require individual judgement based on personal experience. If any of these are involved, regardless of the task being performed, it's subjective, meaning subject-dependent. But none of that matters. We can label it any way we want. The bottom line is.... if it works it works, and that's all that really matters.

 

[Neil]

You got that right. Stan simply berates and insults anybody who dares question "objectivity." He is ban-proof on AZ so can say whatever he pleases.

Just had to take another shot at Stan, huh? Odd, I wasn't even thinking of him when I typed that.

 

[Neil]

I surely don't want to start an objective vs subjective debate. Objective simply means the process involves no personal estimations or developed skills that require individual judgement based on personal experience. If any of these are involved, regardless of the task being performed, it's subjective, meaning subject-dependent. But none of that matters. We can label it any way we want. The bottom line is.... if it works it works, and that's all that really matters.

If you do decide to go down that road, you might first want to do a study on the word's evolving meaning. (you already have the definition wrong)

 

[BC21]

If you do decide to go down that road, you might first want to do a study on the word's evolving meaning. (you already have the definition wrong)

Any method that involves personal bias, or cognitive bias (which is based on a person's developed/learned knowledge), is subjective. It's really not that complicated. Subjective means the results rely on the SUBJECT'S personal knowledge or bias.

Update: If I asked you to swing a baseball bat into a brick wall, that's an objective task....anyone that can swing a bat can do it repeatably.. If I then asked you to swing the bat and hit a baseball thst I am throwing toward you, it becomes a subjective task because only those who have the developed skills to complete the task can actually do it with repeatable precision.

 

[Neil]

Any method that involves personal bias, or cognitive bias (which is based on a person's developed/learned knowledge), is subjective. It's really not that complicated. Subjective means the results rely on the SUBJECT'S personal knowledge or bias.

Update: If I asked you to swing a baseball bat into a brick wall. That's an objective task....anyone that can swing a bat can do it repeatably.. If I then asked you to swing the bat and hit a baseball thst I am throwing toward you, it becomes a subjective task because only those who have the developed skills to complete the task can actually do it with repeatable precision.

Like I said, you might want to do a study on the word first.

 

[BC21]

Like I said, you might want to do a study on the word first.

Lol. Right. It's the same with perception and perspective. Perceptions are subjective, perspectives are objective. One is based on a person's senses, and the other is based on vision. People sense things differently, but the vision center in our mind processes images in the same manner. So your perception of something can be different from my perception, but if we each stand in the exact same place and view the relationship between two objects, we will both see the same perspective.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

It would have been great if you had been chosen for the new job that kept you on the road traveling around the country and less time on the computer.

Any other openings coming up in the near future? Like next week? Count me in for a strong reference to help land the job.

WTF did you do with all of this current time spent on AZ prior to February of this year?

Who were you driving insane then?

I'm starting to think you're a woman. No man could possibly talk so much about anything trying to hammer their views across to an audience.

Is your name really Brianna? (I'm being serious)

 

[SpiderWebComm]

You got that right. Stan simply berates and insults anybody who dares question "objectivity." He is ban-proof on AZ so can say whatever he pleases.

You really do have some brass balls with the posts you get away with and only a 24 and 12 hour ban to your name. I almost think they were for show so you could say you were banned. Hell, the 12 hour one was while you were sleeping. That's not even a ban.

We all give ourselves a 12 hour ban every night. Except for Brian. He never sleeps.

Nope, you never berate or insult anybody. Right, "Innocent Dan"?

 

[BC21]

It would have been great if you had been chosen for the new job that kept you on the road traveling around the country and less time on the computer.

Any other openings coming up in the near future? Like next week? Count me in for a strong reference to help land the job.

WTF did you do with all of this current time spent on AZ prior to February of this year?

Who were you driving insane then?

I'm starting to think you're a woman. No man could possibly talk so much about anything trying to hammer their views across to an audience.

Is your name really Brianna? (I'm being serious)

Hahahaha. I wish I had gotten that job position also! :thumbup:. I took a motor out of my daughter's car yesterday, then had friends over for dinner and drinks.....spent just a few minutes on my phone replying to a few posts. Today I'll put another motor in that car, then I'll go to band practice, then I'll hit some pool balls. And I'm sure I'll squeeze in 15 or 20 minutes on my phone replying to some senseless posts. I've never used a computer on AZ....don't have the time to sit.

I'm not hammering an opinion here when it comes to word meanings. Lol. Words mean things. I don't make up the meanings. Concerning "objective", Neil suggested I should research the "word's evolving meaning", because in his opinion I got the definition wrong. But I don't use personal opinions as word definitions. Words mean things already, and I don't change a word's meaning to fit my personal bias or opinion. In other words, word definitions are objective.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Hahahaha. I wish I had gotten that job position also! :thumbup:. I took a motor out of my daughter's car yesterday, then had friends over for dinner and drinks.....spent just a few minutes on my phone replying to a few posts. Today I'll put another motor in that car, then I'll go to band practice, then I'll hit some pool balls. And I'm sure I'll squeeze in 15 or 20 minutes on my phone replying to some senseless posts. I've never used a computer on AZ....don't have the time to sit.

After you get done putting another motor in that car, put a motor in another car just for additional practice and to see if that car runs better. Forget squeezing time in for AZ.

I'm not hammering an opinion here when it comes to word meanings. Lol. Words mean things. I don't make up the meanings. Concerning "objective", Neil suggested I should research the "word's evolving meaning", because in his opinion I got the definition wrong. But I don't use personal opinions as word definitions. Words mean things already, and I don't change a word's meaning to fit my personal bias or opinion. In other words, word definitions are objective.

Even when using multiple dictionaries, word meanings can still be questioned just like STATE LAWS or FEDERAL LAWS from one person to another..

There it is in writing as clear as can be when written and as it stands on the books, but some yo-yo is going to dispute the meaning and it'll eventually end up in the Supreme Court where it will still end up as a 5-4 decision.

 

[justadub]

Hahahaha. I wish I had gotten that job position also! :thumbup:. I took a motor out of my daughter's car yesterday, then had friends over for dinner and drinks.....spent just a few minutes on my phone replying to a few posts. Today I'll put another motor in that car, then I'll go to band practice, then I'll hit some pool balls. And I'm sure I'll squeeze in 15 or 20 minutes on my phone replying to some senseless posts. I've never used a computer on AZ....don't have the time to sit.

I'm not hammering an opinion here when it comes to word meanings. Lol. Words mean things. I don't make up the meanings. Concerning "objective", Neil suggested I should research the "word's evolving meaning", because in his opinion I got the definition wrong. But I don't use personal opinions as word definitions. Words mean things already, and I don't change a word's meaning to fit my personal bias or opinion. In other words, word definitions are objective.

The thing is, we've had years of back and forth and senseless fights over the usage of the word "objective"....it became a grammar fight. Please don't revisit that. At least that part of the foolishness had finally died down somewhat. You've been civil with Stan, please continue that, and avoid the "objective" debate. There's enuf food for fodder with out that.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

The thing is, we've had years of back and forth and senseless fights over the usage of the word "objective"....it became a grammar fight. Please don't revisit that. At least that part of the foolishness had finally died down somewhat. You've been civil with Stan, please continue that, and avoid the "objective" debate. There's enuf food for fodder with out that.

This post of yours should be nominated for one of the "Best Posts Of The Year".

That's exactly what it is, a GRAMMAR FIGHT.

 

[BC21]

Even when using multiple dictionaries, word meanings can still be questioned just like STATE LAWS or FEDERAL LAWS from one person to another..

There it is in writing as clear as can be when written and as it stands on the books, but some yo-yo is going to dispute the meaning and it'll eventually end up in the Supreme Court where it will still end up as a 5-4 decision.

Good point. But individual words have origins and pretty distinct meanings. When grouped together they sure can become confusing and meaningless.

 

[BC21]

The thing is, we've had years of back and forth and senseless fights over the usage of the word "objective"....it became a grammar fight. Please don't revisit that. At least that part of the foolishness had finally died down somewhat. You've been civil with Stan, please continue that, and avoid the "objective" debate. There's enuf food for fodder with out that.

Lol. Got ya. I will avoid that side road.