Are you leaving the forum because people don't agree with you?
"Aiming Systems" are Junk, DO the Work!
- Thread starter Bobkitty
- Start date
Are you leaving the forum because people don't agree with you?
NO, its because AZB posters don't even know that the CB goes off in different directions when the OB hits the pocket at 1 (the thickest) and through 5 (the thinnest). If someone rolls the CB for shape, he needs to know this stuff. Stan says his aiming system has you hit the middle of the pocket and that's crazy except for almost full table shots. THAT knowledge makes any aiming system except for the contact spot on the OB, so you can deliver it where it needs to go, stupid to me. That's why I'm out of here.
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Because you can't grasp the "simple" aiming system touted by a few but can only be taught be a handful of people? And each one still can't explain it simply.
So, more materials are needed to be released to explain this simple aiming system ?
I grasp it completely. My instructor gave me 70 important transitions that everyone should know to use on my projector on the table. In order to produce the CB effect and proper roll out to the target, one must hit the correct portion of the pocket. Someone can NOT do these transitions hitting the middle of the pockets. Any aiming system that I've read about has the OB in the middle of the pocket, so how would someone learn these transitions? I'll stick to the CB contracting the OB to make it go where it needs to go whether its in the middle, thick or thin into the pocket. Most on here don't understand that. They want the "MIDDLE" of the pocket every time they stroke the OB as Stan has thousands of times commented. You can do it your way.
I think you misunderestimate some in this forum denwhit. Honestly I don't see striving to set up and make your balls center pocket as an egregious act. Many of us play tangent lines when shape and thickness of cut are concerned. Do I number the type of hit 1 thru 5, no...but I play the ball as it needs to be played to make it and get shape.
Yes, there are a lot of CTE proponents in this forum, but that is their deal, if you want people to have different knowledge you need to share it, maybe some will come around to your way of thinking.
I play pool differently than probably every single person in this forum...no parallel shifts...never once a pivot, nor do I ever have a problem finding center cue ball. Even so, I have found random posts to have insightful information that has helped my game.
So, leave the forum if you must, but pool is a game best suited to the individual, I always read your posts and everyone else's for that matter, but if everyone played the same, nothing new could be discovered.
Yes, there are a lot of CTE proponents in this forum, but that is their deal, if you want people to have different knowledge you need to share it, maybe some will come around to your way of thinking.
I play pool differently than probably every single person in this forum...no parallel shifts...never once a pivot, nor do I ever have a problem finding center cue ball. Even so, I have found random posts to have insightful information that has helped my game.
So, leave the forum if you must, but pool is a game best suited to the individual, I always read your posts and everyone else's for that matter, but if everyone played the same, nothing new could be discovered.
I agree that middle pocket is not always the target when the OB is within 3 feet or so from the pocket. Farther out, where the margin of error is 1.5° or less, center pocket is the best target if you enjoy making balls hit the hole. That said, the only method that allows you to pocket the ball at will, slighty left or right of center, is called FEEL. Whether a player uses ghostball, fractions, CTE, or whatever....fine tuning to pocket a ball with precision into dead center, or left/right of center, is a developed skill that requires experience and excellent judgement/feel for the shot.
Aiming systems are intended to help a player put the ball in the pocket. There is no magical "center pocket" aiming system . There are just too many factors that come into play when pocketing a ball. Tweaking or fine-tuning any system for precise accuracy is simply a matter of practice/table time. And any system can be fine-tuned with the right amount of time invested. Some just take a lot longer than others. Still, a player must know how to deal with each factor (cloth condition, ball surface, humidty, etc...) in order to pocket the balls with precision skill.
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How is it that you do not yet understand that CTE is an aiming system, and not a position system? As far as center pocket goes, the system gives you the shot line for center pocket. If you want to hit another part of the pocket, it is a simple adjustment to do so.
Also, since where the cb goes off the ob is very speed dependent, why is that you have never said anything about that factor?
Well, this is a heck of a coincidence.
I got my 9' table back in '93 after moving into or new home. Before that I would stop at a local pool hall after work, practice for an hour and then head for the house. Did this everyday without fail. At $3.50 an hour that's approximately $70 a month so getting my own table was a no brainer.
Like you, there has never been a game of any kind played on my table, I bought the table to be used as a tool.
In early 1993 I bought Bert Kinisters Tight Pockets Workout for 9 Ball on VHS. Since the tv was in the other room I diagrammed all of the shots to take to the table.
Everyday I would practice the diagrammed shots from 6pm to 10pm and then go to bed. I did this for what seemed like years. Sure enough, every shot in the video or a slight variation of the shots came up all the time out in the field.
Then I heard about Ryan Elliott, so I bought the package "Overcoming Contendrousis" and listened to one side of the cassette (12 sides, 6 cassettes) to go to sleep by. Did this every night for a year. i guess you could say that I self administered brain washing. But I wanted to be a good player. Later on I also bought his "Dead Stroke" tapes.
On the way to play I would listen to Daniel Kobialka's "Timeless Motion" which is a subliminal tape.
What I found out was I was starting to play "in the zone" it's a wonderful feeling. That all ended in the year 2000, for some reason I lost the feel, got disgusted and quit playing for ten years.
In January of 2010 I looked at the table, which had been converted to a work bench and said "I'm going to start over right from the beginning", like you would teach someone that had never picked up a cue or played the game. Man, it's been a painful 7 years but I'm slowly getting the feel back. There is no quitting this time.
Like you I spend a lot of time watching and listening to Barry Stark also Nic Barrows religiously. They have no issues with sharing their teachings with folks that want to learn. (unlike the instructors we have here on AZB. I will say that Fran Crimi is the only instructor that publicly wants to help players asking questions.)
Over the last 7 years my library of training DVD's and Books has increased. The material I'm most proud of is Tor Lowry's (Zero-X) instructional series. I also really enjoyed and benefited from pointers in Stan's "Get a Grip" video series.
Sorry about being so long winded but when reading your post I thought "well I'll be" that's exactly what I did and do.
Have a good one Low500
John
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Yes, but what good is "an aiming" system if it doesn't give one great shape on the next ball? Stan says "center pocket" every minute or so in his videos. If you can take the lines that give the "center" of the pocket and then adjust it accordingly so that you can hit the pocket thick or thin, aren't you really resorting back to contact point aiming? If that is correct, why get into "an aiming" system anyway? Just my two cents.
I will leave it like this. If anyone of you could ever have a lesson or two from my teacher, you'd all be convinced of what I've written within 15 minutes. Guess I could do a video of hitting the OB thick, middle or thin and watch the CB go off in different paths, but everyone knows that. SO, why fix yourself on lines and a path that drives the OB to the middle? Beats me why you guys wont go to someone that knows? Actually, one guy from Florida just spent 3 days with him this holiday. His second time out to Portland, Or. So guess me saying he is the best, got some attention. I can not prove what he says and does on here so I guess me writing about it does anything good.
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Well, this is a heck of a coincidence.
I got my 9' table back in '93 after moving into or new home. Before that I would stop at a local pool hall after work, practice for an hour and then head for the house. Did this everyday without fail. At $3.50 an hour that's approximately $70 a month so getting my own table was a no brainer.
Like you, there has never been a game of any kind played on my table, I bought the table to be used as a tool.
In early 1993 I bought Bert Kinisters Tight Pockets Workout for 9 Ball on VHS. Since the tv was in the other room I diagrammed all of the shots to take to the table.
Everyday I would practice the diagrammed shots from 6pm to 10pm and then go to bed. I did this for what seemed like years. Sure enough, every shot in the video or a slight variation of the shots came up all the time out in the field.
Then I heard about Ryan Elliott, so I bought the package "Overcoming Contendrousis" and listened to one side of the cassette (12 sides, 6 cassettes) to go to sleep by. Did this every night for a year. i guess you could say that I self administered brain washing. But I wanted to be a good player. Later on I also bought his "Dead Stroke" tapes.
On the way to play I would listen to Daniel Kobialka's "Timeless Motion" which is a subliminal tape.
What I found out was I was starting to play "in the zone" it's a wonderful feeling. That all ended in the year 2000, for some reason I lost the feel, got disgusted and quit playing for ten years.
In January of 2010 I looked at the table, which had been converted to a work bench and said "I'm going to start over right from the beginning", like you would teach someone that had never picked up a cue or played the game. Man, it's been a painful 7 years but I'm slowly getting the feel back. There is no quitting this time.
Like you I spend a lot of time watching and listening to Barry Stark also Nic Barrows religiously. They have no issues with sharing their teachings with folks that want to learn. (unlike the instructors we have here on AZB. I will say that Fran Crimi is the only instructor that publicly wants to help players asking questions.)
Over the last 7 years my library of training DVD's and Books has increased. The material I'm most proud of is Tor Lowry's (Zero-X) instructional series. I also really enjoyed and benefited from pointers in Stan's "Get a Grip" video series.
Sorry about being so long winded but when reading your post I thought "well I'll be" that's exactly what I did and do.
Have a good one Low500
John
Since you enjoy Nic Barrows, you might know about his CAT. I just received mine a few days ago. I can't think of anything wrong with having a straight stroke.
You apparently weren't serious about this huh?
A guy asked if I left because I could not get anyone to change their minds. I answered after a month or so. I'll be out now and let the "aiming systems" alone. I keep hoping someone would go to someone that can show them to be fruitless. I can't do it on here.
I can not show you on a forum but I know a guy that could show you in 15 minutes. He hits 5 portions of the pocket for shape, sometimes but seldom in the middle. Any aiming system that has the OB going for the middle just won't work with his shape. You can believe it or go out and see it for yourself. One little example; you are hustling a guy and you need to miss the shot but you want it to hit the corner of the pocket and not one diamond out, as he'll know you missed on purpose. All of your "aiming systems" have your imaginary lines to the center of the pocket but now you need to hit the corner protrusion and miss. You can not do this with fractions, and aiming systems that have the ball going to the middle of the hole, so you've got to resort to contact aiming. IF that is the case, why not go to contact aiming all the time?
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I guess with all of this new found knowledge you've acquired that's taken you from a beginner to an all knowing deadly pool room hustler in just a few short months, we CTE users would be especially wise to stay away from both you and "Mr. Fantastic" if we ever got to tangling for something more than chump change.
We'd all go bust! None of us has the slightest clue how to play position because we never learned how to use English, proper speed, nor ever heard of pocketing balls in different parts of the pocket.
How stupid could we have been to never figure it out on our own or watch someone else do it? I have never seen a pro player know about it either and do it in a money match or tournaments. This is some earth shattering, mind numbing new concepts coming out.
You've convinced me! I'm stopping CTE immediately because I can't use it to better my game like yours. I'm just hoping we never run into each other and you wax my butt for every penny I have on me and then empty out the nearest ATM.
Ghost ball, here I come!! I wanna be just like denwhit when I get older. :thumbup:
Btw, you'll still be posting in the aiming forum because you are NOT a man of your word. I warned you about getting a stroke in one of my posts after the top of your head was ready to blow off. Come to find out, you posted that you did have a stroke.
Don't let it happen again because it could be fatal. Those blood thinners are in no way a guarantee to prevent it from occurring once more.
Just keep taking lessons and be happy. (I'm betting he'll be posting here more often than not)
None of you get it. If you want your OB to hit another ball, what on earth would you count on to aim it? CTE takes the OB to the "center of the pocket" so it can't be that! You would have to rely on contact aiming and you guys can't admit it. Another aiming poster asks; why isn't my coach the best in the world? Amazing! Dustin Johnson didn't ask that of Butch Harmon, the best coach voted in USA. Pool players do not take lessons and that is the biggest problem that I can see. You all know what you are doing and that is it!. No other teacher can teach you anything. I am out of here.
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Dennis, don't take what I am going to say the wrong way. It's great that you learned something new, are excited about it, and want to share it. Never lose that feeling. it's what keeps us wanting to learn more.
The problem here, is that you are like the guy that just got his learning permit to drive, and you now think you have some great insight into driving and want to teach race car drivers the finer points of extreme driving.
Your thinking that the exact contact point on the ob is the determining factor on where the cb will end up is just wrong. It is but one of the factors and not even the main one. Do you realize that the contact points on the ob for different parts of the pocket draw closer together the farther away from the pocket the ob is? And what the implications of that are?
Do you realize that contact points is an aiming system? Or that no aiming system is the determining factor in where the cb will end up after making the ob? Aiming systems give you a reliable way to pocket the ob. Positional play is a whole other part of the game. It is in part determined by contact point on the ob. But much more determined by speed, which part of the cb was struck, and rails used.
Don't be the guy that just learned the alphabet and now thinks he's qualified to argue the finer points of writing a Shakespearean play. But likewise, don't lose the wonder and awe of learning something new.