Roll-out ( 2 fouls, ball in hand )

[bstroud]

Push out is the best way to play.it is a test of All your skills no t just the ability to play safe.

Player A pushes out. Player B takes the shot. He automatically assumes player A’s foul and if he fouls player A get ball in hand.

Push out is a skill like any other in Pool.

I once played a player at Park Row Billiards in NYC. He was the best push out player I had ever seen. The only way I won a push out was with an end rail bank. No way to win playing safe.

His name was Toby Sweet. A month later he spotted Billy Johnson the 8 in 9 ball in Atlanta and beat him. They were playing push out.

Bill S.

 

[Michael Andros]

Push out is the best way to play.it is a test of All your skills no t just the ability to play safe.

Player A pushes out. Player B takes the shot. He automatically assumes player A’s foul and if he fouls player A get ball in hand.

Push out is a skill like any other in Pool.

I once played a player at Park Row Billiards in NYC. He was the best push out player I had ever seen. The only way I won a push out was with an end rail bank. No way to win playing safe.

His name was Toby Sweet. A month later he spotted Billy Johnson the 8 in 9 ball in Atlanta and beat him. They were playing push out.

Bill S.

Saw Toby play many times. If he wasn't "from" Florida, he at least lived here for a good while, somewhere down @ Lauderdale I believe. Hellacious player. Loved sweating his matches.

 

[bstroud]

I think I may have been misunderstood. I liked playing push-out while getting paid after every game. Push-out was all about protecting your money. When playing this way died out, so did the action. Push-Out and gambling went hand-in-hand. I see it in my own room. Standard $20 Nine-Ball was an every day occurrence among players of all calibers in the 70s and early 80s. The losing player (in his head) could always "play one more game". He might get his nose open and lose another 10! No more. Players now do sets for $20. Playing sets, a losing player does not want to commit to another set and who can blame him. It is darn near impossible to get a player's nose open playing sets. Push-out was all about gambling and does not lend itself to tournaments.

I always said "I am not kicking at balls for the cash" and I have not. Everyone else can do whatever they want. I just stopped playing...more than 30 years ago.

Gambling at Nine-Ball will never come back with One-Foul.

Paul,

You have always been right about pool. One foul has ruined Gambling.
One pocket is still OK but 9/10 ball is a joke. Playing sets is a joke.
By the game is more fun and you might accidentally beat someone out of some money if they actually have some cash in their pocket.

How can anyone go to the pool room to gamble without at least $500. In their pocket and expect to win anything?

Bill S.

 

[jay helfert]

I have an old Accustats match between Earl and Kim (@ Sands, I think) and they're playing the old rules... and they played three sets! Kim got him...:thumbup:

I was TD that year. I think it was 1989 or 1990. Kim really celebrated after beating Earl, dancing around the table and waving his cue around. Suffice to say he was not one of Earl's biggest fans.

 

[Runner]

What year was that, Runner? Any idea?

I'll check tonight and get back to you... it had to be late '80's, early '90's.. and I think Buddy was commentating, saying something about "that'll change if they employ the Texas Express rules" and described TE a little. TBD

 

[Runner]

I was TD that year. I think it was 1989 or 1990. Kim really celebrated after beating Earl, dancing around the table and waving his cue around. Suffice to say he was not one of Earl's biggest fans.

That's right, Jay!... Billy and Buddy (and Nick, I think) commentating, old 9 ball rules, three sets?

That was a great win for Kim (one of my favorite players)... just watched Kim playing
Archer, race to 11, Johnny's got him stuck I think 9-3, Kim comes back and runs out the set... talk about not giving up!

 

[jay helfert]

Saw Toby play many times. If he wasn't "from" Florida, he at least lived here for a good while, somewhere down @ Lauderdale I believe. Hellacious player. Loved sweating his matches.

I'm pretty sure Toby was from Westchester County above New York City. He is living back there now. He owned (and sold) several pool halls in Florida, making money on every one of them. Toby was a great money player and the last guy to spot Buddy (the eight ball also) and win. He was also a smart businessman and is well retired now.

 

[Michael Andros]

I was TD that year. I think it was 1989 or 1990. Kim really celebrated after beating Earl, dancing around the table and waving his cue around. Suffice to say he was not one of Earl's biggest fans.

2 fouls in a tourney in 90? really??? WOW! Thanks Jay!

 

[Michael Andros]

I'll check tonight and get back to you... it had to be late '80's, early '90's.. and I think Buddy was commentating, saying something about "that'll change if they employ the Texas Express rules" and described TE a little. TBD

Thnx Runner.

 

[Michael Andros]

That's right, Jay!... Billy and Buddy (and Nick, I think) commentating, old 9 ball rules, three sets?

That was a great win for Kim (one of my favorite players)... just watched Kim playing
Archer, race to 11, Johnny's got him stuck I think 9-3, Kim comes back and runs out the set... talk about not giving up!

Hey Runner -

Youtube has that Johnny / Kim match up as
"Best 9-ball comeback ever televised"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eunxk6Etu04

 

[Michael Andros]

I'm pretty sure Toby was from Westchester County above New York City. He is living back there now. He owned (and sold) several pool halls in Florida, making money on every one of them. Toby was a great money player and the last guy to spot Buddy (the eight ball also) and win. He was also a smart businessman and is well retired now.

Loved watching him play, Jay. Solid as a rock. He used to come to Tampa quite a bit, for tourneys and to gamble. He used to match up with Buddy and T.R. a lot back when Buddy was living here.

 

[Runner]

Hey Runner -

Youtube has that Johnny / Kim match up as
"Best 9-ball comeback ever televised"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eunxk6Etu04

Yes, that's the one! Kim stuck with it, grinded it out.. that's a must see!

 

[Michael Andros]

Yes, that's the one! Kim stuck with it, grinded it out.. that's a must see!

Yeah... I watched it a few years ago not long after it was posted there. Kim D. is a great player. That match is a classic lesson in "Play the ball you're shooting, then, when it goes down, play the next one. Period." Great match.

 

[Runner]

Thnx Runner.

So I checked the date, 1990 Sands Regent Reno, two out of three races to 9 for the cheese, Kimmer vs Earl, Mr. Jay Helfert on TD! A MBPT event. A great match!

I'll have to watch some to see if they're playing old school 9 ball rules... I do remember Buddy talking about it... TBD.

 

[Black-Balled]

Didn't ray hansen do a pushout tourney for us a clue years ago?

Am I still winning?!

 

[jay helfert]

So Earl is practicing in the practice room at the U.S. Open, early 1990's. He is pontificating to all present about what needs to be done to fix professional pool. When anyone disagrees with him he angrily rebukes them for being so stupid. In walks Kim and listens for a few minutes, looks dead at Earl and says, "Who made you the God of Pool?" Earl stared back at him and shut up!

 

[Runner]

So Earl is practicing in the practice room at the U.S. Open, early 1990's. He is pontificating to all present about what needs to be done to fix professional pool. When anyone disagrees with him he angrily rebukes them for being so stupid. In walks Kim and listens for a few minutes, looks dead at Earl and says, "Who made you the God of Pool?" Earl stared back at him and shut up!

Love that, Jay!.. Earl trying to be the "intimidator" and Kimmer having none of it..
Kim always looked like someone not to be trifled with.. that 1990 match where he danced around on Earl.. priceless.

 

[Michael Andros]

So Earl is practicing in the practice room at the U.S. Open, early 1990's. He is pontificating to all present about what needs to be done to fix professional pool. When anyone disagrees with him he angrily rebukes them for being so stupid. In walks Kim and listens for a few minutes, looks dead at Earl and says, "Who made you the God of Pool?" Earl stared back at him and shut up!

:rotflmao1:

Even though the way he does it makes a lot of people want to hose him down with mace, I think, in his heart, he really does just want what ( at least ) he thinks is/would be good for pool.

 

[Runner]

Thnx Runner.

Yep, my brain still works... 1990 Sands Regency Reno, Kim vs. Earl, they're playing the old 9 ball rules. Earl breaks, pockets 5 balls, but drives the CB off the table.
The result?
ALL 5 balls come back up on the spot, Kim has to shoot from the kitchen... he has to play a safety off the spot 'lineup'. Buddy on commentary talks about how that'll change if they adopt Texas Express rules. Ah, the good 'ol days, Jay!

 

[Michael Andros]

Yep, my brain still works... 1990 Sands Regency Reno, Kim vs. Earl, they're playing the old 9 ball rules. Earl breaks, pockets 5 balls, but drives the CB off the table.
The result?
ALL 5 balls come back up on the spot, Kim has to shoot from the kitchen... he has to play a safety off the spot 'lineup'. Buddy on commentary talks about how that'll change if they adopt Texas Express rules. Ah, the good 'ol days, Jay!

Damn... and so many have no idea what they're missing.