Calling all pro speed players

[jay helfert]

Jay,

Do you think posting his current fargo rate would be ok? I don't think any number would reveal his identity. Just post the rating and the robustness, if you would.

KMRUNOUT

I don't have it. Looks like he answered this one himself.

 

[jay helfert]

Am I the only one who thinks this whole discussion gets a bit ridiculous?
First of all I don`t know why people think that Chen is the new messiah of pool and her playing male players could give pool a much needed push. In the end its all about two people playing uninterestingly long races of pool, on an internet livestream with more or less poor quality, inside a dark, noisy and smoky pool room and to top it, there is some gambling an betting involved.
Thats exactly the image you want to transport to the public...which you don`t transport anyway, because nobody outside the pool world cares about.

Second, there is another big discussion about fargorate, which might be interesting when it comes to US amateur players, since they use it for some sort of handicap system, but is pretty...useless (might sound a hard, I know)...when it comes to international pro players. Very few players outside the US care or even know about Fargo and if you look at the yearly MC results or any other international results of US players except Shane, you might get an idea why this Fargo lists make non US players giggle.

Third, and this might be the strangest part of this thread, people start debating who or who not Chen is allowed to play. Which solely is her decision. If she feels like challenging herself, she can play the top ten US pros, if she wants the easy money, she can play amateurs every day for the next six month, if she wants, she can give out free hugs in front of pool halls all over America (which probably would get pool more attention).

Anyway, sooner or later Chen will be going back to China and will play women`s tournaments, with good prize money, with TV coverage, with sponsorship deals, with proper referees and perfect equipment.
Wondering why all those Americans wanted to hand over their money to her, thinking about why they are so obsessed about this fargosomething and maybe if this cute American, who tried so hard to beat her in 10ball, ever calls her back.

Probably the best post on this entire thread. Thank you :thumbup2:

 

[Meucciplayer]

I don't know where this is all going. Jeez - Fuhrer, communism, inferior women, superior testosterone, unreliable Fargo rate .....

I am waiting for a little Stalin, Castro, Obama, Trump thrown in for good measure.

Do the posters of such stuff realize that they don't exactly let their intelligence shine in public?

BTW - WRT the gender problem. Has anyone ever thought about it outside the male box?

Yes, testosterone and aggression may be a deciding factor in some sports like football, boxing etc. Does it really matter that much in pool?

But: wouldn't aggression also sometimes be a very negative factor - i.e. a male being likely to go "through a wall"; a more sensitive woman would possibly reconsider first and pick a better choice?

Watching myself play I realize this fact - some of my - possibly testosterone driven - shots were stupid in hindsight. I would bet that many women would have had an advantage over me right there. Not so many men.

 

[gxman]

I'd like to see Chen get into action with Billy Thorpe or Sky.

 

[Nostroke]

I don't know where this is all going. Jeez - Fuhrer, communism, inferior women, superior testosterone, unreliable Fargo rate .....

I am waiting for a little Stalin, Castro, Obama, Trump thrown in for good measure.

Do the posters of such stuff realize that they don't exactly let their intelligence shine in public?

BTW - WRT the gender problem. Has anyone ever thought about it outside the male box?

Yes, testosterone and aggression may be a deciding factor in some sports like football, boxing etc. Does it really matter that much in pool?

But: wouldn't aggression also sometimes be a very negative factor - i.e. a male being likely to go "through a wall"; a more sensitive woman would possibly reconsider first and pick a better choice?

Watching myself play I realize this fact - some of my - possibly testosterone driven - shots were stupid in hindsight. I would bet that many women would have had an advantage over me right there. Not so many men.

Yep Half the stuff in this thread is speculation, 30% thought provoking and 20% unadulterated non sequitur bullshit!

 

[jimmyg]

I don't know where this is all going. Jeez - Fuhrer, communism, inferior women, superior testosterone, unreliable Fargo rate .....

I am waiting for a little Stalin, Castro, Obama, Trump thrown in for good measure.

Do the posters of such stuff realize that they don't exactly let their intelligence shine in public?

BTW - WRT the gender problem. Has anyone ever thought about it outside the male box?

Yes, testosterone and aggression may be a deciding factor in some sports like football, boxing etc. Does it really matter that much in pool?

But: wouldn't aggression also sometimes be a very negative factor - i.e. a male being likely to go "through a wall"; a more sensitive woman would possibly reconsider first and pick a better choice?

Watching myself play I realize this fact - some of my - possibly testosterone driven - shots were stupid in hindsight. I would bet that many women would have had an advantage over me right there. Not so many men.

The catch with information is that it first has to be understood, then interpreted rationally, without bias or agenda.

Testosterone has both a physical and mental effect on people, and, like emotions, requires control. But it does positively effect competitiveness. No where in this thread have I read anyone claiming that testosterone or the presence of testicles, in and of itself, indicates or creates champions.

Some reading material: US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health - Testosterone research papers: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23587440

"Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2013 Oct;38(10):2034-41. doi: 10.1016/j.psyneuen.2013.03.008. Epub 2013 Apr 12.

Changes in testosterone mediate the effect of winning on subsequent aggressive behaviour.

Carré JM1, Campbell JA, Lozoya E, Goetz SM, Welker KM.
Author information
Abstract

Testosterone concentrations rise rapidly in the context of competitive interactions and remain elevated in winners relative to losers. Theoretical models suggest that this divergent neuroendocrine response serves to mediate future dominance behaviours. Although research in animal models provides compelling support for this model, evidence for its applicability to human social behaviour is limited. In the current study, men and women were randomly assigned to experience a series of victories or defeats, after which aggressive behaviour was assessed using a well-validated behavioural measure. Winning produced elevated testosterone concentrations relative to losing in men, but not women. More importantly, testosterone reactivity to competition mediated the effect of winning on subsequent aggressive behaviour in men, but not women. We discuss limitations of the current study (e.g., the status manipulation may have affected other variables not measured in the study including competitiveness and physical activity expended), as well as discuss a potential neural mechanism underlying the effect of testosterone reactivity on aggressive behaviour.

KEYWORDS:

Aggressive behaviour; Sex differences; Social status; Testosterone reactivity

PMID: 23587440 DOI:10.1016/j.psyneuen.2013.03.008

[Indexed for MEDLINE]"

 

[garczar]

Wow!! 325 posts. BTW, i thought "robustness" was a cigar size. I guess i was wrong.

 

[lfigueroa]

I think it would be a shame if SC wasted a precious day on her trip to the US playing someone nobody knows or has expectations about.

She's only here a certain amount of time. So the real question is she would be playing him INSTEAD of who?

Instead of Shuff? Instead of Robles? Instead of Frost? Instead of Hatch? Instead of a rematch with Donny? Instead of Thorpe? Instead of Bartram? Instead of Chip or Joey in OK? Instead or Chris or Damian or Stan in the pacific northwest? Instead of Brian Parks? This is the question in my mind. Clearly you know something I don't know. But I think the interest here is weird.

A full blown car wreck is always going to get more rubber necking.

Lou Figueroa

 

[overlord]

No that's an observation



No that's an observation



No that's an observation



No that's an observation



This one is different. A phrase like this is created after lots of people have observations like the others you've mentioned. But here is the problem. Creating a phrase like this cements those observations into a THING. Without the phrase, your viewpoint can more readily evolve if you started to see more car-repair or computer-repair people being women. But the phrases tend to make the earlier observations more resilient. This is a valid objection to genderizing something that doesn't need to be genderized. I wish people would try to understand this rather than calling someone who points it out "offended," whatever that means.



Nope; back to an observation.

ditto



I think it is subtle stuff, but I think it is REALLY worth thinking about in an honest way. One thing that would help I think is to assess comments for their content rather than assigning them to a bucket.

Science is all about " observation". What I get from you is the boiler plate fashionable and in fact " prejudicial " BS.

This is the standard, throw out your whole life experience in the face of folks spouting junk science and mouthing political slogans.

 

[Meucciplayer]

Science is all about " observation". What I get from you is the boiler plate fashionable and in fact " prejudicial " BS.

This is the standard, throw out your whole life experience in the face of folks spouting junk science and mouthing political slogans.

Have you been looking in a mirror recently?

I remember you were the one mouthing political slogans - i.e. "communists" should be checked for doping and all that. Should I name a few US athletes recently caught? Should we mention the American pool players who more or less openly admit to substance abuse (for example cocaine)? I don't think American males would fare better than Chinese women in the doping department - if everybody were to be thoroughly checked right before/after pool games.

I saw more prejudicial stuff from you than from most others.

 

[jasonlaus]

Probably the best post on this entire thread. Thank you :thumbup2:

That was a terrible post
Jason

 

[one stroke]

Probably the best post on this entire thread. Thank you :thumbup2:

Might well be if half of it was true ,, Chen is the Messiah of woman's pool and it's a thousands of yrs old argument where women can compete with men , ,, and since there is 325 posts and almost 10 k views I'd say that constitutes as interest here
Roy himself mentioned Fargo rate in his post on FB and has several other times in making comparisons , and if pool gets back into public gambling Fargo will be a tool used for predicting matches ,, and since Match Room has moved the US Open to Vegas I'd say that's a distinct possibility,,
Chen is now one of Roy's Horses her picture was added to the others on his FB , so yes she will be in China playing however she will be playing here and they are working on matches to play then , and no not in seedy smoky rooms

1

 

[overlord]

Have you been looking in a mirror recently?

I remember you were the one mouthing political slogans - i.e. "communists" should be checked for doping and all that. Should I name a few US athletes recently caught? Should we mention the American pool players who more or less openly admit to substance abuse (for example cocaine)? I don't think American males would fare better than Chinese women in the doping department - if everybody were to be thoroughly checked right before/after pool games.

I saw more prejudicial stuff from you than from most others.

No you are engaging in bias. Citing the historical legacy is what it is. Since a Transexual played in the Women's Amateur National Championship this stuff is not gonna go away.

My point is that if Chen is on male hormones, then the whole holy grail of female players narrative, goes out the window.

Jeez they dope race horses. We are getting really freakish about how we define the sexes.

The way it is now why can't a male player put on a whig and some lipstick and enter a women's tournament?

 

[jasonlaus]

No you are engaging in bias. Citing the historical legacy is what it is. Since a Transexual played in the Women's Amateur National Championship this stuff is not gonna go away.

My point is that if Chen is on male hormones, then the whole holy grail of female players narrative, goes out the window.

Jeez they dope race horses. We are getting really freakish about how we define the sexes.

The way it is now why can't a male player put on a whig and some lipstick and enter a women's tournament?

Why would you even imply something like her being on hormones? Are you gonna claim she is a man next???

Wtf is wrong with you? Seriously
Jason

 

[one stroke]

No you are engaging in bias. Citing the historical legacy is what it is. Since a Transexual played in the Women's Amateur National Championship this stuff is not gonna go away.

My point is that if Chen is on male hormones, then the whole holy grail of female players narrative, goes out the window.

Jeez they dope race horses. We are getting really freakish about how we define the sexes.

The way it is now why can't a male player put on a whig and some lipstick and enter a women's tournament?

You got proof of that ?

 

[overlord]

Why would you even imply something like her being on hormones? Are you gonna claim she is a man next???

Wtf is wrong with you? Seriously
Jason

Trust but verify. I guess you all have never been " thrown in the river ".

 

[jay helfert]

I'll take that bet.

I'm a mid-600 player, and I'll play Siming for the cash, straight-up
Make it a race to 50 and she doesn't have to like it.
Why?
Because endurance is gonna be a factor, and pool is not all about making balls.

I feel I'm in better shape than she is, I'll out-think her, I feel my competitive drive is stronger than hers, and I'm an unknown.

Plus, I speak some Chinese, so a little barking is a-gonna happen.

No disrespect to Xiao3chen2 (anyone who has studied Chinese will understand why I called her that--it's not disrespectful), but I've never lost to a girl in my life.

Anyone want to bet?
I live in Tucson, AZ.

Look what you started Boogey! 337 posts and counting. You are a great entertainer after all! :smile:

 

[RiverCity]

No you are engaging in bias. Citing the historical legacy is what it is. Since a Transexual played in the Women's Amateur National Championship this stuff is not gonna go away.

My point is that if Chen is on male hormones, then the whole holy grail of female players narrative, goes out the window.

Jeez they dope race horses. We are getting really freakish about how we define the sexes.

The way it is now why can't a male player put on a whig and some lipstick and enter a women's tournament?

Why would you even imply something like her being on hormones? Are you gonna claim she is a man next???

Wtf is wrong with you? Seriously
Jason

 

[overlord]

And the river is wide and the river is deep and you get swept downstream where there are a bunch of freaks.

 

[one stroke]

Trust but verify. I guess you all have never been " thrown in the river ".

That's really tells us nothing, now if that came from omgwtf it would have cred


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