It's so confusing! One guy says HR is faster and another guy says no it's not. Which is it? What would you buy, the HR is not much more. Casual play home table, not tons of play like in a pool hall. One person play plus an occasional gathering. Table is 1974 Brunswick Windsor 8 ft. It seems it would be fun to play on something faster than a typical crap bar table but I don't know much.
Simonis 860 or 860HR
- Thread starter livemusic
- Start date
I had 860 HR installed on my Gold Crown and I like the cloth. I think the HR is less likely to get the white "burn" marks on the cloth otherwise I think the 2 clothes are about the same.
Thanks
Kevin
https://www.pooltablefeltcloth.com/simonis/product/860hr.html
The Best of Both Worlds
Durable Commercial-Grade Billiard Cloth
If you are looking for cloth that will give you commercial grade durability and professional quality performance and accuracy, then Simonis 860HR (High Resistance) is for you.
Simonis 860HR combines the legendary strength and performance of the Simonis 760 and Simonis 860 blends into one cloth to give you the best of both worlds.
Simonis 860HR has the same blend of wool/nylon that 760 has, but has the same thread count as 860. The difference is that 860 and 860HR is approximately 70/30 wool/nylon. The shaving process is also changed slightly, leaving more or less a 100% wool surface on the cloth, which is why the cloth doesn't show marks (ball burns) as much as 760.
Simonis 860HR is slightly faster than the standard 860.
Our cloths are shipped pre-cut (bed cloth and rail cloths).
The Best of Both Worlds
Durable Commercial-Grade Billiard Cloth
If you are looking for cloth that will give you commercial grade durability and professional quality performance and accuracy, then Simonis 860HR (High Resistance) is for you.
Simonis 860HR combines the legendary strength and performance of the Simonis 760 and Simonis 860 blends into one cloth to give you the best of both worlds.
Simonis 860HR has the same blend of wool/nylon that 760 has, but has the same thread count as 860. The difference is that 860 and 860HR is approximately 70/30 wool/nylon. The shaving process is also changed slightly, leaving more or less a 100% wool surface on the cloth, which is why the cloth doesn't show marks (ball burns) as much as 760.
Simonis 860HR is slightly faster than the standard 860.
Our cloths are shipped pre-cut (bed cloth and rail cloths).
But......Simonis 860HR is only available in a handful of colors, correct?
Looks like 4 colors from the Simonis site.
Simonis Green™
Blue-Green
Tournament Blue™
Royal Blue
I had Green and currently Tournament Blue on my table.
I will be switching to 760 soon.
Simonis Green™
Blue-Green
Tournament Blue™
Royal Blue
I had Green and currently Tournament Blue on my table.
I will be switching to 760 soon.
I've had both on my table, the HR does seem to hold up better, it will get the white burn marks just not as bad as the others. As far as color I think they offer it in the most popular choices. I honestly don't think most pool players could tell the difference in speed unless they were side by side.
Which of course it the main reason to choose cloth. If you are are an interior decorator and are setting up a pool table to match the rug and curtains.
I got the HR for my table, don't have another one to compare it with, but it plays the same as other tables with Simonis, speed is fine.
Yes, the 860HR is available in Simonis green, blue/green, tournament blue and royal blue. Simonis green or tournament blue are by far the two most popular choices for pool rooms. The HR is certainly worth the additional 10% or whatever more it costs than the regular 860, unless you don't want any of those 4 color choices, as the 860 is available in probably 20+ different colors..
I have assumed that Simonis green is the closest to the old 'standard' color of 40-50 years ago, is this correct?
All of the youtube videos I watch of tournaments, they are playing on tournament blue color, which looks nice. I told a friend I was considering it, he said he doesn't like to play on it. But I think most people in another thread said they like TB.
All of the youtube videos I watch of tournaments, they are playing on tournament blue color, which looks nice. I told a friend I was considering it, he said he doesn't like to play on it. But I think most people in another thread said they like TB.
Many poolrooms and bars used the blue/green color which was often called "standard green". The dark green color was also an extremely popular color for poolrooms and still is the most popular for home tables among those that don't choose Simonis. I don't think the brighter and greener Simonis green color started to become popular until Simonis took over as the cloth of choice for the men's pro tour, although the Camel tour utilized the camel colored version of Simonis, I think in the 1990s.
It won't matter. As long as its Simonis, it will be 100 times nicer and faster than what you have now.
I've had plain 860 on my home table for 6 years. I play on it almost daily. It is still in great shape.
Speed of the cloth is controlled mostly by how much the table mech
stretched the cloth. You can make 760 slower than 860 by how tight its stretched.
Just tell the mech how fast or slow you want the table to play. The only limits
are the rails. You can only go so loose or so tight on rail cloth and still have it playable.
Back in the days of 'slow' wool cloth, you could take 18-19 oz wool and pull it
pretty tight. It would play much faster than normal. The problem was it would wear
out quickly. Then came the 21 oz rubber-backed wool. It could only be stretched
so tight because of the rubber backing. It lasted a long time and played pretty slow.
Good luck
Find a good table mech.
stretched the cloth. You can make 760 slower than 860 by how tight its stretched.
Just tell the mech how fast or slow you want the table to play. The only limits
are the rails. You can only go so loose or so tight on rail cloth and still have it playable.
Back in the days of 'slow' wool cloth, you could take 18-19 oz wool and pull it
pretty tight. It would play much faster than normal. The problem was it would wear
out quickly. Then came the 21 oz rubber-backed wool. It could only be stretched
so tight because of the rubber backing. It lasted a long time and played pretty slow.
Good luck
Find a good table mech.
I went with HR this time because the local room where I play/gamble uses it. I like my practice to be as close to match conditions as possible.
If you don't stretch it tight enough, it can/will eventually loosen to the point that you may see wrinkles appearing, especially around the corner pockets. To be installed properly, I believe it needs to be stretched just about as tight as it can be, with a specialized tool the installer should have which allows him to do it very tightly and evenly.
I have heard that HR doesn't have as much initial slide as the non-HR. For a home situation this probably isn't important. At a big tournament it means that the players won't have such a hard time adjusting the first day or so and the tables will not change as much during play.
Here is a previous thread about HR:
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=140328
Here is a previous thread about HR:
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=140328
The 860HR is also more humidity resistant than the normal weave of the 860. The higher the wool% the more humidity is absorbed into the cloth.