Mosconi Cup Tournament Table - Opinions?

[AtLarge]

Posted in the other thread:

At last week's warm-up match with England, the table was tough on breaks. The wing ball went in only 17% of the time, and successful breaks were about 50%.

Deep shelves and bad racking were given as possible reasons for the difficulties on the break. And we heard that the table was being moved to Alexandra Palace for the Mosconi Cup, so we wondered whether it would be the match table and, if so, how it would fare.

Well, that table from last week is certainly NOT the match table being used this week at the Cup. The wing ball went in on 30 of the 34 breaks today (88%, several were fouled) and the successful break rate is way up.

And then, as you say, several pretty bad "misses" during the games found their way to the bottom of the pockets.

As is said, both teams are playing on the same table.

[But I wish the table played tougher.]

 

[MattPoland]

Mosconi Cup 2018

Mosconi Cup 2015

Mosconi Cup 2012

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Taxi]

I’m not really upset the euro’s got some rolls from it because we will to. I just think the best players in the world playing in the biggest 9 ball event of the year should be playing on equipment that penalizes you for bad shots and this table doesn’t come close to doing that.

That's my sentiment exactly. World class players should be playing on world class equipment, and this table was pathetic.

(Well, at least they're not playing on bar tables. That's what half the promoters in the U.S. would be doing if they had their way.)

But I'm also wondering whether the Sky Sports promoters who want the biggest possible audience for these matches don't mind letting the players seem as if they're a bit better than they really are. Sort of a pool variation of that old "Chicks dig the long ball" mentality in baseball that was promoted during the steroid era.

 

[jokrswylde]

The mosconi Cup was never intended for a test of the world's best and purest ball pocketers. The world championships have that covered.

The mosconi is intended for raucous crowds, intense patriotism and pressure, and short sprints to the finish.

This table plays just fine for this purpose. Yes it looks like it plays easy for the guys, but I would venture to guess that many of the folks who are calling these pockets "buckets", would find them a little more difficult in front of a couple thousand rowdy fans screaming as they drop into their shot.

As Justin Bergman said on the FB stream, new cloth accounts for most of the slopped in balls. The table will tighten up over the next couple days.

 

[CharlesUFarley]

The rolls go both ways.

Kaci missed a ball by a diamond and a half, and it still went.

I saw that shot (on the 2 ball, I believe), I could not believe it dropped.

 

[pt109]

I’m not very enthused by the looks of the table...hardly the design of the year....
....we’ve discussed this problem earlier....

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?466794&p=6053675#post6053675

 

[Grilled Cheese]

Mosconi Cup 2018

Mosconi Cup 2015

Mosconi Cup 2012

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the comparison Matt.

It does appear that the pocket angles are too straight on the Rasson. This causes the throat of the pocket to be bigger. BUT...that's not what makes balls go easier, since once the ball is back there - it's pocketed. It rebounds the object ball more toward being pocketed as opposed to rattled and rejected as in the Diamond.

Can't tell from the photos since they are not scaled exactly - but they do look like they are slightly bigger pockets overall even at the mouth. But not "buckets" as everyone has been describing them.

Also, if the pocket faces have a sharper inward angle, that makes the pocket bigger since the ball does not contact the top of the rails inside the pocket, but underneath. Deeper angle, bigger pocket even though from above it can look the same size.


Combine that with very slick cloth....and balls go easier. Do note that on most of the sloppy pocketing, the shot speed (by pro standards) was fairly soft and slow. Softer shooting makes pockets play bigger. The players know this.

 

[iusedtoberich]

As someone who is anal with measurements, and has a home table with a video camera permanently attached to the wall, I can tell you 100% that picture/video is absolutely meaningless for determining if a table is consistent. Unless someone is there in person, and with a ruler in their hand, there is no way to tell.

 

[kevina]

Anyone notice how far the corner pocket slate drop-offs radius's are way out of square on this Rasson table, when they show the overhead view? I can't imagine that could be the camera angle causing that distorted appearance, as all 4 corners are way off, but the side pockets seem to be perfectly aligned, which means these slates just do not match this table. I can't imagine the Mosconi Cup / Matchroom Sports would ever find this table acceptable for their signature event like this.

Also, the pockets are playing ridiculously big for this level of competition, and the players know it, so are they are playing very agressive and cheating the heck out of the pockets when necessary, and making balls on clearly missed shots even when there is no reason for them to be cheating the pocket.

Overall very disappointing for a Mosconi Cup table, in my opinion.

Just to state a few points concerning the pockets of RASSON tables at all events:
1. As a professional table manufacturer who have near 30 years of experience in billiard products(actually the biggest solid wood table manufacturer&exporter in the market now), RASSON are defenitely able to make the tables and cut pockets strictly according to the requirements of tournament organizations or customers.
2. Pockets specs RASSON usually make are WPA, Matchroom, EPBF, GB9, Dragon Promotions (All of them require different pocket sizes for their tournaments).
3. One tournament/organizor may require to change the pocket sizes for same event in different years; or for different events at same year.
4. Table pocket template/sizes are governed&required by the organizor, not RASSON
5. All players play on same table

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Just to state a few points concerning the pockets of RASSON tables at all events:
1. As a professional table manufacturer who have near 30 years of experience in billiard products(actually the biggest solid wood table manufacturer&exporter in the market now), RASSON are defenitely able to make the tables and cut pockets strictly according to the requirements of tournament organizations or customers.
2. Pockets specs RASSON usually make are WPA, Matchroom, EPBF, GB9, Dragon Promotions (All of them require different pocket sizes for their tournaments).
3. One tournament/organizor may require to change the pocket sizes for same event in different years; or for different events at same year.
4. Table pocket template/sizes are governed&required by the organizor, not RASSON
5. All players play on same table

Hi Kevina,

Hope all is well with you, it has been a long time since we have chatted. Are you guys still using the Artemis pool 66 ?? If so why? Why not change to the Artemis Intercontinental 66?? Thanks

Trent from Toledo

 

[RichSchultz]

I worry that Matchroom will use these tables at the US Open. Hopefully the specs will be tougher.

 

[Inaction]

The table matches the atmosphere of the event.

 

[Swighey]

This table plays just fine for this purpose. Yes it looks like it plays easy for the guys, but I would venture to guess that many of the folks who are calling these pockets "buckets", would find them a little more difficult in front of a couple thousand rowdy fans screaming as they drop into their shot.

As Justin Bergman said on the FB stream, new cloth accounts for most of the slopped in balls. The table will tighten up over the next couple days.

Indeed. The tables are just fine and there will be many shots missed under pressure during the next few days. There have already been some shots missed that an average player would make in his or her sleep so the pockets can’t be that big

 

[ChrisinNC]

Just to state a few points concerning the pockets of RASSON tables at all events:
1. As a professional table manufacturer who have near 30 years of experience in billiard products(actually the biggest solid wood table manufacturer&exporter in the market now), RASSON are defenitely able to make the tables and cut pockets strictly according to the requirements of tournament organizations or customers.
2. Pockets specs RASSON usually make are WPA, Matchroom, EPBF, GB9, Dragon Promotions (All of them require different pocket sizes for their tournaments).
3. One tournament/organizor may require to change the pocket sizes for same event in different years; or for different events at same year.
4. Table pocket template/sizes are governed&required by the organizor, not RASSON
5. All players play on same table

Kevina, we appreciate your response. Any way you could provide us with the pocket specs requested of Rasson by Matchroom for this Mosconi Cup tournament table? Many of us here would love to know what those specs are, to add to our enjoyment of watching this event, as opposed to just guessing on here what these specs are. All of us here fully realize newly installed Simonis cloth (as is the case with this match table) will certainly affect how the pockets will play.

Specifically, it would be very enlightening to know what exactly are the corner and side pocket mouth measurements, the corner pocket facing angles, corner pocket shelf depth measurement and the thickness of the pocket facings used? Thanks

 

[HawaiianEye]

To me, it looks like the tables are playing really "soft".

I've only watched a few games, but I've seen players hit the ball a foot, or so, down the rail from the pockets and they go in.

The tables are playing the same for all the players, but I think there are some shots that they are "getting away with" that are hit "less than perfect".

 

[skogstokig]

any links youtube or otherwise would be highly appreciated, facebook is blocked for me

using a poor version of cricfree now, very low quality

 

[garczar]

any links youtube or otherwise would be highly appreciated, facebook is blocked for me

using a poor version of cricfree now, very low quality

No offense BUT, WHAT does this have to do with the table? As for the table, hey this is a made-4-tv exhibition not the world championships. I personally have no issues with the table and both sides gotta use it so why b^*ch?

 

[skogstokig]

No offense BUT, WHAT does this have to do with the table? As for the table, hey this is a made-4-tv exhibition not the world championships. I personally have no issues with the table and both sides gotta use it so why b^*ch?

i posted in the wrong thread

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Slow rolling balls die comin off the rails. I wonder what the players have to say about it?

Trent from Toledo

 

[easy-e]

European players sure are missing a lot on such an easy table today.