generally, how much would more of a forward-weighted balance point affect cue ball squirt/deflection? besides the cue feeling heavier overall, would there be any other consequences of having the balance point moved up? cheers!
cue balance point question
- Thread starter evergruven
- Start date
its the mass at the tip thats the main factor in squirt not the balance point of the cue
(unless all the weight was at the tip...
)
theory vs fact
In theory, only the mass of the first five or six inches behind the tip matters. However, if the stick is held rigidly then the stiffness of the shaft and everything between the mount and the cue ball comes into play.
Holding a cue in our hands is a relatively soft mount so depending on how we accomplish it, moving the balance point forward a few inches shouldn't matter. Adding a weight bolt at the joint should make little difference in deflection. As already noted, put a weight right behind the tip to get forward balance and expect big deflection.
I have played with forward weighted cues, didn't like the way they felt. Can't say it played better or worse. What matters is the distance from the tip but we measure the balance point from the butt end. My cue would seem forward weighted, it balances 21" from the back of the cue. However, it is a sixty inch cue so when that is considered the balance point is exactly the same as the very common 19" a 58" cue often balances at. People trying the cue notice instantly that it is light at 16 ounces. Few notice it is sixty inches long until I mention it, and nobody has ever commented on the balance point.
In theory, only the mass of the first five or six inches behind the tip matters. However, if the stick is held rigidly then the stiffness of the shaft and everything between the mount and the cue ball comes into play.
Holding a cue in our hands is a relatively soft mount so depending on how we accomplish it, moving the balance point forward a few inches shouldn't matter. Adding a weight bolt at the joint should make little difference in deflection. As already noted, put a weight right behind the tip to get forward balance and expect big deflection.
I have played with forward weighted cues, didn't like the way they felt. Can't say it played better or worse. What matters is the distance from the tip but we measure the balance point from the butt end. My cue would seem forward weighted, it balances 21" from the back of the cue. However, it is a sixty inch cue so when that is considered the balance point is exactly the same as the very common 19" a 58" cue often balances at. People trying the cue notice instantly that it is light at 16 ounces. Few notice it is sixty inches long until I mention it, and nobody has ever commented on the balance point.
its the mass at the tip thats the main factor in squirt not the balance point of the cue
(unless all the weight was at the tip...
thanks guys. I was actually considering 18" on 58" cue, which, if I'm reading you right, isn't overly forward-weighted?
and how do you like 60"? I think it's interesting and cool you're working with long, but light. is there any precedence for that design? what do you like about it? thanks again.
I play with a, 55 1/2" carom cue. I like the balance point from the end of the butt, 18" - 19". For me the cue should feel like a fencing sword foil in my hand, with complete control over the tip!
I don't like the feel of the tip falling downward, but, sort of like the it's floating in air if I hold the cue out stretched with my grip hand.
I don't like the feel of the tip falling downward, but, sort of like the it's floating in air if I hold the cue out stretched with my grip hand.
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the back story
I tend to put a lot of distance between my bridge and grip hand so I like a longer cue. A project that might happen someday is a three piece cue with each piece being 22". I have stuff laying around to make it but my cue lathe has been in storage for ages.
Many years ago, mid-eighties, some friends were playing with twelve ounce sixty inch snooker cues on a bar table. They were also playing with milk duds, we happened to all be close to Jensen cues. The stick was ten or twelve dollars, installing the dud about the same.
This stick was low deflection before low deflection was cool! Found I had to learn how to aim all over again. Another issue was that the weight was very wrong. I have hammered enough nails to know there is a reason most carpenters have at least three different claw hammers. Likewise, when I helped assemble the biggest land oil rig in the world I found the right weight sledge hammer for the job made a lot of difference.
This slight side trip is to explain cue weights. Natural cue weight with current cloth is around 18.5 to 19.5 ounces for most people. A much heavier cue and you are trying to hold it back on many shots or shortening your stroke a lot. A much lighter cue and you are trying to hammer thirty penny nails with a sixteen ounce trim hammer, you are doing almost all of the work. With the twelve ounce cue it seemed I was doing all of the work. It felt pretty lousy to be honest but I kept playing with it and winning minor tournaments. I wasn't playing the amount I had in previous years, wife and business interfering with pool, and it took me months to get a handle on that light stick. When I did, I had a level of control with it that I had never had before. Spot shape instead of area shape became much easier. Spot shape is a license to steal.
Toting around a snake coffin draws a lot of attention so I tried to make a light two piece. My current cue is all wood and synthetic, no metal at all. If I make another it will be even lighter with weight trimmed at the joint(s).
There isn't any such thing as a best cue. It depends on the person and their playing style. A long light cue with a fairly soft tip suits me. Someone else would probably hate it. For ease of play, I like a 19 to 19.5 ounce cue. For more precise play I like the lighter cue. If I was playing on the old deep cloth ten foot tables with clay balls I played on a little I would use a 20+ ounce stick. No air conditioning either and a genuine stroke was required even with the heavier stick.
Today, when in stroke I play better with the long light stick with a thinner shaft. Out of stroke, I play better with a heavier stick with a thicker shaft.
Sorry for writing a book, takes a bit of writing to explain my answers to your questions.
Hu
I tend to put a lot of distance between my bridge and grip hand so I like a longer cue. A project that might happen someday is a three piece cue with each piece being 22". I have stuff laying around to make it but my cue lathe has been in storage for ages.
Many years ago, mid-eighties, some friends were playing with twelve ounce sixty inch snooker cues on a bar table. They were also playing with milk duds, we happened to all be close to Jensen cues. The stick was ten or twelve dollars, installing the dud about the same.
This stick was low deflection before low deflection was cool! Found I had to learn how to aim all over again. Another issue was that the weight was very wrong. I have hammered enough nails to know there is a reason most carpenters have at least three different claw hammers. Likewise, when I helped assemble the biggest land oil rig in the world I found the right weight sledge hammer for the job made a lot of difference.
This slight side trip is to explain cue weights. Natural cue weight with current cloth is around 18.5 to 19.5 ounces for most people. A much heavier cue and you are trying to hold it back on many shots or shortening your stroke a lot. A much lighter cue and you are trying to hammer thirty penny nails with a sixteen ounce trim hammer, you are doing almost all of the work. With the twelve ounce cue it seemed I was doing all of the work. It felt pretty lousy to be honest but I kept playing with it and winning minor tournaments. I wasn't playing the amount I had in previous years, wife and business interfering with pool, and it took me months to get a handle on that light stick. When I did, I had a level of control with it that I had never had before. Spot shape instead of area shape became much easier. Spot shape is a license to steal.
Toting around a snake coffin draws a lot of attention so I tried to make a light two piece. My current cue is all wood and synthetic, no metal at all. If I make another it will be even lighter with weight trimmed at the joint(s).
There isn't any such thing as a best cue. It depends on the person and their playing style. A long light cue with a fairly soft tip suits me. Someone else would probably hate it. For ease of play, I like a 19 to 19.5 ounce cue. For more precise play I like the lighter cue. If I was playing on the old deep cloth ten foot tables with clay balls I played on a little I would use a 20+ ounce stick. No air conditioning either and a genuine stroke was required even with the heavier stick.
Today, when in stroke I play better with the long light stick with a thinner shaft. Out of stroke, I play better with a heavier stick with a thicker shaft.
Sorry for writing a book, takes a bit of writing to explain my answers to your questions.
Hu
I know this feeling! I like it too, except when I choke up at all on the cue, and the front is jumping up..
makes sense- and thanks for taking the time to explain, I appreciate it.
definitely agree we all have our own formula..just gotta figure it out!
twelve ounce cue tho
18" from the bottom of a 58" cue is not considered forward-weighted these days.
The normal spot is a around 18.5" these days.
Would someone please elaborate more on the meaning and significance of the balance point in a cue?
Many readers misunderstand this aspect of a cue's anatomy any the absence of any bolts are a factor.
My own views about cue-making are very subjective so someone less opinionated should address this.
Many readers misunderstand this aspect of a cue's anatomy any the absence of any bolts are a factor.
My own views about cue-making are very subjective so someone less opinionated should address this.
wouldn't if I could!
Not gonna put my dainty little tootsies in that snake pit! We could get into a lot of engineering and scientific discussion but the right balance point is mostly determined by where the player bridges and where they put their grip hand. When we step from where it feels good to why it feels good we open a can of worms only slightly less contentious than how many angels can sit on the head of a pin.
Shotgun, pistol, pool cue, even stock car, when you grab the one that is right for you it feels like an extension of your body. You can spend a lot of time trying to figure out why or you can black box it and say that is the way things are.
Hu
Not gonna put my dainty little tootsies in that snake pit! We could get into a lot of engineering and scientific discussion but the right balance point is mostly determined by where the player bridges and where they put their grip hand. When we step from where it feels good to why it feels good we open a can of worms only slightly less contentious than how many angels can sit on the head of a pin.
Shotgun, pistol, pool cue, even stock car, when you grab the one that is right for you it feels like an extension of your body. You can spend a lot of time trying to figure out why or you can black box it and say that is the way things are.
Hu
Not really want to start an argument here, but the more weight you have at the bottom, the less resonance the grip hand is going to feel.
IF WEIGHT needs to be added to come the desired weight, the optimal location is in the middle of the butt. The weight in that location will be neutral to the balance point of the butt itself. Weight added does not need to be bolt btw. And it doesn't have to be the A-joint stud either.
"Forward weighted" cues are preferred by those who hold their cues very gently or loosely. Preferred by those who like to the cue go or do most of the power.
Tight grippers prefer lighter cues and more balance to the rear.
Having said that, if one is in-stroke, the cue might feel lighter. It just floats and glides during the stroke.
I prefer 19 to 19.5 oz myself at around 19" balance point.
If I have a cue that needs any weight at all, I place a,'set screw' in the bolt hole right where I grip the cue 98% of the time.
I also fill up the bolt hole with cotton balls, to take away some vibration. I've been doing this for 35 years.
I also fill up the bolt hole with cotton balls, to take away some vibration. I've been doing this for 35 years.
This is what I think also.
Depending upon where you have your bridge and your grip hand, the balance point could feel quite different.
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Balance Point Is Really Over-Rated Unless Exaggerated.....IMO.
I am a very strong advocate for building cues that fall within a range of weight proportionality for the butt and shaft
to the cue’s playing weight. There is a sweet spot range that all the great cue-makers I am familiar with always used and
their cues have been adored & heralded for decades. Except for a couple of cues I bought via the resale market, all of
the custom cues I’ve ordered were built to satisfy a particular weight proportionality. Once that requirement gets cleared,
the balance point becomes less significant and so really 18” to 20” is fine or basically anything relatively close to that.
I am a very strong advocate for building cues that fall within a range of weight proportionality for the butt and shaft
to the cue’s playing weight. There is a sweet spot range that all the great cue-makers I am familiar with always used and
their cues have been adored & heralded for decades. Except for a couple of cues I bought via the resale market, all of
the custom cues I’ve ordered were built to satisfy a particular weight proportionality. Once that requirement gets cleared,
the balance point becomes less significant and so really 18” to 20” is fine or basically anything relatively close to that.
The wait is over. Put the balance point where ever you want.
http://www.mcdermottcue.com/mcdermott-h-series-pool-cues.php
John
http://www.mcdermottcue.com/mcdermott-h-series-pool-cues.php
John
dig these quotes, joey!
<<<--often gentle
hi bava, interesting idea- tell more? I'm particularly curious what the average, and perhaps what a range of different cue butt and shaft weights you've tried look like?
cheers-