Cuemaker history

greyghost said:
Spliced points purpose were not for aesthetics. Crock of Bullwinkle

The Berger and the vignaux were done as such because it gave maximum gluing surface between the different woods.

I’m surprised to hear you say something completely ridiculous and false


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Unfortunately you took what I said wrong...I never meant that spliced points were developed for aesthetics. Sorry it reads that way because I said "purpose"... I meant floating points were. LIKE spliced points they "point" etc..etc..etc...

You understand now??

By the way, what were the "purpose" of veneers?

Let me add, spliced points today and for many many decades have been used as an aesthetic element. For a while now they sure dont offer an advantage as far as the hit of a cue no matter how well constructed.

-Rocky-
 
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greyghost said:
this is some cool info not necessarily about the craftsmen

Verl Horn bought 2 of the original lathes that Viking had in their factory, Verl sold those lathes to Joel Weinstock (first cue mentor of mine not counting Dennis cueniversity) Joel sold them at one point to Mike Betts (silky cues) got them back, then sold them to Eddie Farris (Farris) then got them back....this is when i started working with Joel in mid 2000's....late 2000's he sold them to Ken Quarters whom owned the Cue Spot in Tulsa....

Kens now passed and he didn't make very many cues but repaired many.....He was a life long engineer in the oil field and designed many down hole valves etc.....told me he wanted to finally build and make things people could see. Was real salt of the earth man with a soft and kind demeanor and is missed by anyone who knew him.

Joel even hired DPK at one point so David worked on those lathes as well.....

Far as i know the lathes are still in the cuespot.

Good side not on Ken Quarters, last time i seen him he was ridden to a little scooter after a stroke...and still every day he was up at his family oriented pool hall. He told me his lawyer said "ken your very wealthy why not go to a high class retirement home and relax"......Ken responed "all my friends are here and i love this game and place.....what the hell am i gonna do at a retirement home". They didn't make many like him ;)

-Keeb
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K, Qspot is history. Have no idea where those machines ended up.
 
Cuebuddy said:
Here is what I have. I borrowed it from somebody who posted it awhile ago. Thanks for the info to the OP. It certainly does not cover all the cue makers but its a start.
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Mike Bender was NOT an apprentice, student, or anything like that to Kersenbrock. It’s a shame that this fabrication is wirtten down.

Freddie <~~~ too much, too much
 
bstroud said:
I have to agree with this.

Bill S.
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Thats why makers like yourself are so important Bill. Someone has to play traffic cop. And out of all of them (makers) I cant think of any more qualified than yourself.
 
Many in this thread post their feelings of inaccurate facts being "abominations"...
The true abomination is individuals knowing facts and not sharing them. To what end? If you have the correct information, why wouldn't you share it for the betterment of billiards collective knowledge? Are you waiting for someone to pay for that knowledge? Are you writing a book? Or, will you, too, die with your secrets?

Josh
 
Cornerman said:
Mike Bender was NOT an apprentice, student, or anything like that to Kersenbrock. It’s a shame that this fabrication is wirtten down.

Freddie <~~~ too much, too much
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Cuemakers history is like a spider web.. Knowledge is obtain by studying, taught or when discussing issues. Whether one minute or numerous of years. As Dieckman mention a few years back many cuemakers don't wants other to know who taught them

Example an article about Dieckman in a Billiards Publication have error as it failed to mention the time he spent in North Carolina working with Danny Stout in1992.

These cuemakers on the tree are all connected.

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=110022

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=140972

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=238573

Maybe the best source would be ICA and ACA require their members to add this info to their profile,as to who they learn or work for in cuebuilding.
 
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skins said:
It's a damn shame that so many never mention the "other food group" in cues that Cognoscenti made popular in the early 90's and since has influenced decades of design.. Joe Gold is a pioneer in a many aspects and NEVER gets the recognition. His push of fancy design floating points, silver implementation, ultra precision construction, and G10 pin are so under recognised it's borderline criminal.

Joe is another pioneer that deservers his due in the cue category discussion.
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That is true, yet Schrager was doing fancier floating points before Joey. The 30 slot thin silver stitch rings and G10 joint screw are the main two things that stand out to me for Joey. He was also ahead of most on how clean his work was. Then there is the question, who did Joey get inspiration from? DPK stands out as a good possibility to me, which still goes back to the Martin tree.

I personally got help from all over. Mostly by talking to various cuemakers on the phone when doing business. There are some who got help from some on the Martin tree that want to keep that a secret so I will not add to it. There are scores of cuemakers that owe their initial inspiration to Leonard Bludworth. Yet he rarely gets mentioned. Bob Meucci also influenced cuemaking in more ways than can be counted.
 
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skins said:
Floating points are just that. Like triangle style, they convey movement towards the tip of the cue. An aesthetic element that "point" forward conveying a promise of force and shot direction.

Whether spliced or inlaid they are both for the same purpose and are both points.

That said there are cues that are inlaid in the forearm that I agree are not points but just a different look.
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If that's the case, spears, or any shape that "pointed" to the tip would be considered points.

IMHO floating points are no different than Boxes in box cues. I feel the process of putting them in a cue is closer to an inlay than traditional points.

I guess we will hear what others think on this.
Jason
 
cueman said:
That is true, yet Schrager was doing fancier floating points before Joey. The 30 slot thin silver stitch rings and G10 joint screw are the main two things that stand out to me for Joey. He was also ahead of most on how clean his work was. Then there is the question, who did Joey get inspiration from? DPK stands out as a good possibility to me, which still goes back to the Martin tree.

I personally got help from all over. Mostly by talking to various cuemakers on the phone when doing business. There are some who got help from some on the Martin tree that want to keep that a secret so I will not add to it. There are scores of cuemakers that owe their initial inspiration to Leonard Bludworth. Yet he rarely gets mentioned. Bob Meucci also influenced cuemaking in more ways than can be counted.
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Right, Joe wasnt the 1st for floating points but no one before him, including Schrager, did things similar to him.

As for help, Joe's close friend was Craig Peterson so he was aware of Craigs construction techniques. Not sure what if any of that info transfered over.
 
jasonlaus said:
If that's the case, spears, or any shape that "pointed" to the tip would be considered points.

IMHO floating points are no different than Boxes in box cues. I feel the process of putting them in a cue is closer to an inlay than traditional points.

I guess we will hear what others think on this.
Jason
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We agree to dissagree. IMHO Box cues are not like floating points. Most box cues as they have been normally designed originate from the center of the canvas (forearm) and radiate out equally towards the wrap and joint. Floating points start at the botton of the canvas like traditional splices and the design flows towards the joint.. Big difference. So yes any similar group of shapes that starts at the bottom of the canvas and radiates towards the joint can be considered a "point". Even better if those shapes taper as the forearms do.
 
skins said:
Unfortunately you took what I said wrong...I never meant that spliced points were developed for aesthetics. Sorry it reads that way because I said "purpose"... I meant floating points were. LIKE spliced points they "point" etc..etc..etc...

You understand now??

By the way, what were the "purpose" of veneers?

Let me add, spliced points today and for many many decades have been used as an aesthetic element. For a while now they sure dont offer an advantage as far as the hit of a cue no matter how well constructed.

-Rocky-
Click to expand...



I’d be willing to bet that originally it was done because veneers are less dense and it helped to get the glue soaked in for a better bond as well as “fill” any errors in the cut line

Remember cues came from the techniques of cabinet makers “ebonistes”


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skins said:
We agree to dissagree. IMHO Box cues are not like floating points. Most box cues as they have been normally designed originate from the center of the canvas (forearm) and radiate out equally towards the wrap and joint. Floating points start at the botton of the canvas like traditional splices and the design flows towards the joint.. Big difference. So yes any similar group of shapes that starts at the bottom of the canvas and radiates towards the joint can be considered a "point". Even better if those shapes taper as the forearms do.
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But there should be a distinct separation.....one is aesthetics the other a necessary construction technique....wether the times have made the glues we use better to not have to do such or not.

Dis gonna be a complicated flow chart tee boy


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skins said:
We agree to dissagree. IMHO Box cues are not like floating points. Most box cues as they have been normally designed originate from the center of the canvas (forearm) and radiate out equally towards the wrap and joint. Floating points start at the botton of the canvas like traditional splices and the design flows towards the joint.. Big difference. So yes any similar group of shapes that starts at the bottom of the canvas and radiates towards the joint can be considered a "point". Even better if those shapes taper as the forearms do.
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The shape has nothing to do with it, it's the way they are put into the cue.

Hope you're doing good. Headed to Florida at the end of the week :)
Jason
 
Originally Posted by Cornerman View Post
Mike Bender was NOT an apprentice, student, or anything like that to Kersenbrock. It’s a shame that this fabrication is wirtten down.

Freddie <~~~ too much, too much
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So you could say Bender was a Trainee of Kersenbrock, as he spent 5 days at Bender shop and build equipment, so Bender could pick his mind??
 
jasonlaus said:
The shape has nothing to do with it, it's the way they are put into the cue.

Hope you're doing good. Headed to Florida at the end of the week :)
Jason
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To me, a point is doing just that, pointing. Thats why most floaters have that tapered shape. Box cues are another animal...

I'm good.. Tell D I said hey and let me know how "things are going" :)... Looking forward to a couple things.
 
billiardshot said:
So you could say Bender was a Trainee of Kersenbrock, as he spent 5 days at Bender shop and build equipment, so Bender could pick his mind??
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Similar to my mentor Joel.....wouldn’t consider him a dpk apprentice but trainee would be a good way to put it.


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DPK hired himself out as a trainer to many smaller cuemaking shops over the years.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/trainee

trainee

noun

a person being trained, especially in a vocation; apprentice.

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/trainee

Synonyms for trainee


apprentice
cadet
learner
pupil
abecedarian
amateur
colt
greenhorn
neophyte
newcomer
novice
novitiate
recruit
rookie
starter
student
tenderfoot
tyro
 
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greyghost said:
But there should be a distinct separation.....one is aesthetics the other a necessary construction technique....wether the times have made the glues we use better to not have to do such or not.

Dis gonna be a complicated flow chart tee boy


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Click to expand...

It's ALL for aesthetics nowadays regardless of construction technique.

Makers go for a certain "look"... Today not too many techniques used today that are seen in the end result by the customer were done for for the benefit or betterment of the construction of the cue.

Edit..... Rereading your response again I think you're talking about a somewhat different thing but anyway my thoughts are more towards what my original thoughts of points and design not necessity of construction method...
 
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