Tap Tap Tap!
Did Scmidt set new record
- Thread starter deanoc
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Tap Tap Tap!
Actually, I did the commentary on the final match between Ortmann and Mizerak alongside my friend George Fels. They played a 200 point game. It was televised by a local Chicago television station. I have copies of that match plus the women's finals between Loree Jon Jones and Robin Bell. It's on the same DVD as the great Caesars Tahoe final between Mizerak and Strickland in 1982.
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Fair enough, Stu -- it sounds as if you've watched more major 14.1 events than me.
As I said, I was speaking from my personal experience, as a player with several 100+ ball runs under his belt (ran a 92 last week on a tough Diamond). I even won a "world" qualifier up in Chicago a few years back but had to bow out of the main event due to family obligations. And though your corner ball theory doesn't sync up with what I've learned as a player, nor what Dallas West and Ray Martin told me, nor with what I watched Mosconi do, it's perfectly valid.
Lou Figueroa
The record
I believe that I read of a couple of the older players that ran 600
something, practicing or whatever you want to call it. The number
of balls that John has run is phenomenal. Doesn't Mosconi's
526 have an * exhibition high run beside it. There should be
a different category for each. Tournament, exhibition, practice
(or whatever you call; it). Mosconi's 526 as great as it is, is what
it is, an exhibition. To whatever John does, has nothing to do with
what Mosconi did.
jack
I believe that I read of a couple of the older players that ran 600
something, practicing or whatever you want to call it. The number
of balls that John has run is phenomenal. Doesn't Mosconi's
526 have an * exhibition high run beside it. There should be
a different category for each. Tournament, exhibition, practice
(or whatever you call; it). Mosconi's 526 as great as it is, is what
it is, an exhibition. To whatever John does, has nothing to do with
what Mosconi did.
jack
For those of us who wish to learn this great discipline could either of you (SJM or Lou) perhaps take a few quick videos of the different breaking methods you are talking about so we (really me, but I'm sure others would be pleased as punch to see them too) can see them and get a better understanding of the technics and differences???
I think you may be misinterpreting me. I'm not saying the corner balls represent the only good break shot angles. That said, back in the day and today as well, I think we'd both agree that some break shots are better than others.
For example, when the cut angle is just 20 degrees, it may be less than optimal. Similarly, other times the attack angle into the rack may be undesirable.
My primary point is that it's easier to fade getting suboptimal position onto the break shots today that it was on the slower cloth because at a given speed, the balls spread more on the simonis.
There are many good breakshots, but I think what has changed is one's chance of success after leaving the wrong one. If you got a bit too straight back in the day and had to use a very powerful stun shot just to get to the rack, you got stuck a lot more back when slower cloth was in vogue.
Anyway, an interesting debate for sure and one that highlights that we've both got a lot of passion for the game and its underlying theory.
Hope I'll see you at the Derby, Lou.
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A superb post. Mastering Pool is one of the best pool books ever written, and George Fels himself was a straight pool junkie who knew of what he spoke. I got to know George quite well and I really miss him.
As George notes, the corner balls are a little safer, but Lou Figueroa is right in pointing out that there are many good break shots that top players utilize.
Like you, I admire John's passion in trying for the record. He's bringing positive attention to the discipline of 14.1 and I wish him well.
I don't think you can do much better than this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iaEWtZOPSY
Lou Figueroa
that surely would be impressive...
...............
A worthy cause indeed, Lou. Looking forward to seeing you.
I was lucky to be a grad student at Syracuse in 1977-1978, and got to know Babe Cranfield, who told me about the 768 run. I am not sure where it occurred, could have been Holiday Billiards, Caps Cue Club, or could have been earlier, a different room.
At Holiday Billiards, Babe practiced on table 10, and I practiced in table 11. He was as honest as they come, and was so good at counting 14s, that there is no doubt in my mind that he ran 768. Every week even then, he ran in the 200s. The problem was, quite a few witnessed it, but nobody for the whole run. According to Babe, he made an attempt to get it documented, but couldn't do it, as there wasn't complete observation.
There are a lot who cling to the 526, and I understand that, even though it's pretty obvious there are a bunch of runs higher than that. Even Charlie Ursitti, I believe, recounted a session where Mosconi ran something like 612 with Charlie racking the balls. Obviously, there's Mike Euphemia's 625.
I think it's great that John is trying to complete this mission. If he wants to eliminate all the asterisks, it would be great if he were to get above 768. There would then be no doubt. It is also no doubt that there are those who will disagree on various points, which is ok, as it's a free country. That's the story.
All the best,
WW
Thanks WildWing enjoyed that...
All the best to you..
No clinging but no witnesses to Cranfield's run either (unlike Mosconi).
No affidavits for all of Cranfield's run (unlike Mosconi).
Just say so.
That's why the 526 is the record -- witnesses.
Lou Figueroa
and an affidavit
Attachments
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More importantly it was not a practice run. It was an announced exhibition. Cranfield's 768 run (and Engert's 491 I believe, and various others) were not in exhibitions. They were in practice sessions. I think that even if Cranfield had witnesses and affidavits and video, it would still not be the exhibition record.
Of course with the current record-keeping situation, it's not clear what it's going to take to get recognized "officially".
The biggest difference to me Bob is that Mosconi's run started in the course of a regular match (exhibition or not) and was not just an attempt to break a record. After he won the match he continued the run, and the rest is pool history.
The single biggest flaw in John's attempts is that he will not do this in the course of a match and is starting with a break shot. For that reason, if he is successful it will have it's own place in the billiard record books for the longest verified run of balls. It will not supplant Mosconi's run, but complement it. That said, it would be an enviable record to have and would put John Schmidt's name in the record books for a long time to come. It would also be a very coveted DVD to own. I have already offered $10,000 for the rights to it, if it happens.
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I have come to feel that Schmidt's run might be the best in his category.....
...it’s on video.
Engert’s 491 has been called inofficial (sic)...I guess not totally witnessed, perhaps.
But I think there should be a third category for high runs....
...equivalent to ‘time trials’ in horse racing.
I don’t know what to call these DCC type runs other than practise runs...
...but I feel there should be a better name...they still get my admiration.
Darren Appleton has the high competive run at 200.....:bow-down:
I think Willie’s 526 as an exhibition run might stand for another 100 years....:bow-down:
I believe John’s 434 stands alone also...whatever we call this category.
As of right now that 434 is the longest recorded Straight Pool run of all time! In and of itself it is a valuable DVD for that reason.
Irving Crane, whom I knew, commented to me that Babe Cranfield, who claimed two runs of over 700, probably made both of those runs. Crane suggested Babe had more 300+ runs than any player ever.
... but what you say of Babe's 768 was also true of Eufemia's run in 1961 (interestingly enough, the same year Roger Maris' was given the dreaded asterisk in the record books when he broke Babe Ruth's single season record). Mike, who was a good friend of my father, was the only person who saw the entire run, so the documentation was insufficient for the Guinness Book of World Records.