Did Scmidt set new record

[deanoc]

something about this record business doen't seem right to me

Willie set the record on certain 8 foot table that might be considered easy by some
but at least he was playing a game
now along comes someone to play days on end,weeks on end not even in a game

It makes me think of golf,when i was a kid Art Wall was said to have made 34 holes
in one in competition of some kind,at least while playing golf


Lets say another guy goes out and hits 3 or 4000 balls shot after shot counting the
ones that go in

lets ssy he makes 1 a day with all these shots ,i would not consider that a record
any where near the accomplishment of Art
what if someone else sets out on another 8 foot,with big pockets ,then day after day
until he finally accomplishes his task,

it still is nothing like a game of pool


Roger Maris hit 61 homers in a longer season so he got an asterisk Babe Ruth still held
a long time record,now Bonds Sosa,Maquire all break the record but some moral cloud
hangs over the record

I am amazed at what Schmidt is doing,but it is still hitting balls on the driving range,it
is not even a game of pool

When he finishes, should I conclude he is the best player in the world. Is he the best now?
I don't know who is or where the world championship is played.

Is john the champion?How many times has he been the champion?
Is the world champion even considered to be the best player?

There were tournament where Willie got beat,but we all knew who
the best player in the world was.

when i was a kid and we watched guys wearing tuxedos playing straight pool,
it was special,impressive.

I hope this thing John is doing revives interest in the game,it is beautiful.
There seems to be a class to it.



Willie wasn't in competition,it was exhibition,but at least he was playing a game

Take Ronnie o Sullivan running 147 s,now that is something,but don't count every time some guy does it on his home table as the same

No offense meant,but one guy won a bunch of world championships ,and casually ran 526 along the way



this is not the same,it is impressive,but not the same

How many world championshis did Willie have?is that still the record?

 

[terryhanna]

I think John has the record for highest run ever caught on video from the 1st ball to the last ?

He has ran over 400 four times and i don't think any other living player can say that.

Any way you look at it's a hell of accomplishment for 14-1.

 

[Dan White]

something about this record business doen't seem right to me

This is always true of records. I think the answer is that records just don't mean what people think they do and we can't put too much stock in them. The only probable exception to that is a win/loss record. That means something.

Best example I know of is the home run record. Every baseball field has different dimensions. Ruth set that record in Yankee Stadium with the extremely short right field (not to disparage Ruth as he was a phenomenal player). At the same time, left center was so long they called it Death Valley. DiMaggio would have held every home run record if he didn't hit into that field on half the games he played in. There was one game in which DiMaggio would have had a home run on every at bat if he was playing on a normal field (although that might have been a game at the Polo Grounds, also with long dimensions).

I'm blown away at JS's performance and he just might break Mosconi's record someday. The more he tries the more impressive Mosconi's record seems. If he does, we might have to add an asterisk... I mean to Mosconi's record, since he wasn't really even trying. :grin:

 

[Poolmanis]

You can´t get a game where one could beat 526 in game.
So only way someone could beat 526 is what J.S is doing right now.
If players would start trying to beat it after they ran out tournament game.. Scheludes would suck..
Practice runs are not same as game but after 150 it really does not matter. Making really long run start putting pressure to anyone. Especially if you start to get near records. Own or others.

 

[mikemosconi]

mikemosconi...Do you have some problem with JS? He's making a legitimate run at a historic record. He's already famous and successful btw. He plays well, and represents professional pool well. I see no reason to put that down dirogatorily.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I have NO problem at all personally with the man. I DO have a problem with his contrived method of going about something that WOULD assist him in laying claim to having an all time "record" over someone(Mosconi) that Schmidt could not hold a candle to in prime vs. prime head on 14.1 COMPETITION. I have seen both men compete at 14.1 and Schmidt is just NOT very impressive to me- and Mosconi was the BEST ever as a 14.1 COMPETITOR. As others have stated, NOTHING about this attempt at 526+ seems anything but contrived, staged, non competitive, and in my own opinion; so far removed from how the record was accomplished in the first place that I personally place NO legitimacy to whatever he does in terms of a "record", in fact I see this METHOD of trying to lay claim to a "record" held by the most esteemed man in the history of pocket billiards as utterly disrespectful to Willie Mosconi, his family, and the sport itself. GOT it NOW!

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Willie... at least he was playing a game ...

No, he was doing an exhibition. It was not a competition. That's why it's the exhibition record.

The competition record is 200.

As for the other comment, "staged and non-competitive", it's quite remarkable. Willie Mosconi's record-setting exhibition run was by design "staged" and to say it was competitive is just foolish.

 

[speedy5963]

Bob Jewett has seen the table Schmidt has been using for his high-run attempts. It is a 9-foot Rebco. Bob called the pockets "generous" and guessed the corners to be about 5".

That is correct, its at our local pool hall, nice table. I was there watching some of the runs/attempts. Good guy, fun to watch him shoot

 

[one stroke]

mikemosconi...Do you have some problem with JS? He's making a legitimate run at a historic record. He's already famous and successful btw. He plays well, and represents professional pool well. I see no reason to put that down dirogatorily.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

So I'm assuming then he is doing it in front of a crowd ,, is there not accounts of runs much higher not seen by crowds


1

 

[lfigueroa]

No, he was doing an exhibition. It was not a competition. That's why it's the exhibition record.

The competition record is 200.

As for the other comment, "staged and non-competitive", it's quite remarkable. Willie Mosconi's record-setting exhibition run was by design "staged" and to say it was competitive is just foolish.

Well, I think a reasonable concession would have to be that while it was an exhibition, the record was framed within the context of an actual match. And, when the match was over, there was not an endless series of run attempts.

Mosconi took one shot at it.

Perhaps it is like someone trying to break the Home Run Derby record by going out day after day, at a similar ball park and under ideal conditions, until they break the record. The conditions — and the fact that you’re only going to try it once — changes how the record, as well as attempts to break it, should be viewed.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JimGinPhx]

Mosconi

I think all the current top 14.1 guys are impressive. The thing that will never change, whether someone comes along and runs 527+ is, the aura of and respect for Willie Mosconi to this day. If there was a Mount Rushmore of Pool and Billiards, Mosconi, Greenleaf, Hoppe and Cuelemans IMHO. Becoming a legend usually happens years after the person dies. Being head and shoulders above your contemporaries and looked at as great at what you do is usually when you're actively competing.

 

[Baby Huey]

John came to my room about a month ago after I had just finished recovering one of my GC3's with 47/8" standard pockets. He ran over a 100 playing Jerry McWhorter several times (I don't remember how many runs over the 100 he had) but he told me he could play on that table and maybe break the record. I would love to see him do that. One thing about his 14.1 game that I really like is how much action he gets off the break ball. If he stays with it the sky's the limit. Good luck John.......

 

[Dan White]

John came to my room about a month ago after I had just finished recovering one of my GC3's with 47/8" standard pockets. He ran over a 100 playing Jerry McWhorter several times (I don't remember how many runs over the 100 he had) but he told me he could play on that table and maybe break the record. I would love to see him do that. One thing about his 14.1 game that I really like is how much action he gets off the break ball. If he stays with it the sky's the limit. Good luck John.......

I think new cloth makes a tremendous difference. Many of my highest runs came when the cloth had not yet been broken in.

 

[arnaldo]

I think all the current top 14.1 guys are impressive. The thing that will never change, whether someone comes along and runs 527+ is, the aura of and respect for Willie Mosconi to this day. If there was a Mount Rushmore of Pool, Mosconi, Greenleaf, Hoppe and Cuelemans IMHO. Becoming a legend usually happens years after the person dies. Being head and shoulders above your contemporaries and looked at as great at what you do is usually when you're actively competing.

Small point: That would have to be a Mount Rushmore of Billiards (rather than "pool") if the hypothetical grouping includes Hoppe and Cuelemans.

Arnaldo

 

[Mr. Wilson]

He has no record at all!! Your book - who are you?? FYI Mosconi walked into a strange pool hall during a road trip of exhibitions and ran the record on a strange table- these so called "set up" trials at the record under TOTAL ideal conditions for the player are complete jokes "IN MY BOOK"

Share your high run and who you are that such strong opinions should be supported.

 

[mikemosconi]

Well, I think a reasonable concession would have to be that while it was an exhibition, the record was framed within the context of an actual match. And, when the match was over, there was not an endless series of run attempts.

Mosconi took one shot at it.

Perhaps it is like someone trying to break the Home Run Derby record by going out day after day, at a similar ball park and under ideal conditions, until they break the record. The conditions — and the fact that you’re only going to try it once — changes how the record, as well as attempts to break it, should be viewed.

Lou Figueroa

Thanks Lou, agree with you entirely. Willie Mosconi never ever set aside ANY portion of his career to chase anyone's record. He simply viewed pool as a way to make a living and support his family. He traveled night and day to support his family, and those that knew his routine know that he often slept an hour or so outside pool rooms prior to entering them to perform a competitive exhibition, because he was so exhausted from the demanding schedule required to make a living. How can any rational person respect this current self serving attempt by someone to say they did more than Mosconi on a pool table is just well beyond my comprehension and acceptance.

 

[sjm]

Thanks Lou, agree with you entirely. Willie Mosconi never ever set aside ANY portion of his career to chase anyone's record. He simply viewed pool as a way to make a living and support his family. He traveled night and day to support his family, and those that knew his routine know that he often slept an hour or so outside pool rooms prior to entering them to perform a competitive exhibition, because he was so exhausted from the demanding schedule required to make a living. How can any rational person respect this current self serving attempt by someone to say they did more than Mosconi on a pool table is just well beyond my comprehension and acceptance.

I don't see what John is doing as self-serving, but understand all those who say the records are not comparable.

Sigel once commented that had Mosconi played on Simonis cloth, the record would be over 2,000. That said, though, I have no idea whether Mike is right. Put the old nappy cloths on today's tables and the record would be unapproachable on the 4 1/2" that are customary today .... but if you also loosen the pockets, who knows? I don't think the fact that John is playing on 5" pockets and new simonis cloth would in any diminish the quality of his run were he to achieve his goal of 527+, as Mosconi played in easy conditions in his exhibitions, too, but never on new cloth, and he played with the old composition balls that were less reliable and on the old rails which were less live and less predictable than those of today.

Comparing anyone of this era to Mosconi or Greenleaf is absurd, as those two, per Charlie Ursitti, produced so many one and two inning games in competition that they were very hard to dethrone. Greatness is, was, and always will be measured in titles.

What we can say is that if John runs 527+, it's a great achievement and it will be the best run of this era of 14.1. Hope he does it.

 

[jrctherake]

I don't see what John is doing as self-serving, but understand all those who say the records are not comparable.

Sigel once commented that had Mosconi played on Simonis cloth, the record would be over 2,000. That said, though, I have no idea whether Mike is right. Put the old nappy cloths on today's tables and the record would be unapproachable on the 4 1/2" that are customary today .... but if you also loosen the pockets, who knows? I don't think the fact that John is playing on 5" pockets and new simonis cloth would in any diminish the quality of his run were he to achieve his goal of 527+, as Mosconi played in easy conditions in his exhibitions, too, but never on new cloth, and he played with the old composition balls that were less reliable and on the old rails which were less live and less predictable than those of today.

Comparing anyone of this era to Mosconi or Greenleaf is absurd, as those two, per Charlie Ursitti, produced so many one and two inning games in competition that they were very hard to dethrone. Greatness is, was, and always be measured in titles.

What we can say is that if John runs 527+, it's a great achievement and it will be the best run of this era of 14.1. Hope he does it.

hmm. As always, very well said!!!!

I've said this and heard the same from many folks:

1. Buy same type table Willie played on a set it up like it would've been back then.
2. Acquire a set of balls that's as close as possible to what he had to use.
3. Use a plain maple shaft.
4. Masters chalk.
5. Poor lighting that Willie usually experienced.
6. Get only "one attempt" each day.

I'm sure just like most, you see where I'm going.

I'm sure what I suggest, will never happen. If I was skilled enough to do it, I would in a heartbeat. Hell, I spent WAY more on equipment and have WAY LESS talent.

I only wish I had John's talent.

JMO, as usual, put it with a $1 and I somehow end up with .99 cents and a headache.

Rake

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Sigel once commented that had Mosconi played on Simonis cloth, the record would be over 2,000. That said, though, I have no idea whether Mike is right. Put the old nappy cloths on today's tables and the record would be unapproachable on the 4 1/2" that are customary today .... but if you also loosen the pockets, who knows? ...

I think Sigel is wrong on that one. Remember the nappy cloth they put on tables for the IPT? That was supposed to make the game a lot tougher. In one match (in Reno?) it went hill-hill (to 13 or 15) and the breaker only came back to the table one time. One two-inning game in the whole match. And those were Diamonds.

The way I try to play straight pool (and the way I think the greats used to play), I want to minimize cue ball movement. I find that easier to do on fluffy cloth.

 

[sjm]

I think Sigel is wrong on that one. Remember the nappy cloth they put on tables for the IPT? That was supposed to make the game a lot tougher. In one match (in Reno?) it went hill-hill (to 13 or 15) and the breaker only came back to the table one time. One two-inning game in the whole match. And those were Diamonds.

The way I try to play straight pool (and the way I think the greats used to play), I want to minimize cue ball movement. I find that easier to do on fluffy cloth.

Yes, but it's not the position play that is so much tougher - though it was just a little bit tougher, and a bigger stroke was needed, especially on long draw and stun shots. The bigger problem was that the balls didn't spread nearly as well on the slow nappy cloth on the break shots. On average the break shot had to be hit harder back then. Missed break shots and not getting a shot after pocketing a break-shot ended far more runs back in the day than today.

The IPT was 8-ball, and all the old masters were well past their primes. Nearly all the races were to eight.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... On average the break shot had to be hit harder back then. ... .

I think that's not true. The old timers tended to be within 10 inches of the object ball and have a 60-degree cut. In comparison, Hohmann is 30 inches from the object ball and has a 30-degree cut. I think Hohmann hits the ball a lot harder than Willie did.

And my memories of playing on new Stevens cloth in the 1960s is that the balls spread just fine. When new.