I don’t think non-players are allowed to get involved like that.
You tell the person who committed the foul.
I don’t think non-players are allowed to get involved like that.
I don't believe JB knew she didn't get a rail. The commentators had been talking about how long of a day it had been for the players. I think they both snoozed it, as did many people watching.
I think you have to give JB the benefit of the doubt in this situation instead of calling her out when you really have no idea what she was thinking at that moment. JMO.
With regard to the last part of your statement, If I were the TD in the case of a dispute in an unrefereed match where I saw the hit from the sidelines, I would tell both players that I saw the hit and ask them if they would both agree to let me call it after the fact. I believe it is wrong to just step in and call a hit after the fact without the permission of both players if the match was not refereed. If one or both of the players refused to let me make the call after the fact, then I would have to give the benefit of the doubt to the shooter, regardless of whether the shooter was right or wrong.
And frozen ballIt's not cheating regardless of what you think. It's not written anywhere that I have to tell you anything about the match other then "Push" or "you're on two"
The other player should not be rewarded for their ignorance.
I disagree with this completely. Both players should do their best to see that all rules are applied all the time. Failing to call a foul on yourself is unethical in my view whether there is a ref or not.... However, if a match is refereed, then it is entirely up to the ref to see a hit and make the call. The players don't have an obligation to make a call on themselves. ..
There was no ref so let's just say Jennifer is a bad referee then when it matters most, to say the least, and she clearly must be one of those people you mentioned in your first sentence also. That's too bad. She doesn't miss a thing when it comes to checkin the rack tho.. She made a couple of good shots to "win"at any rate but still.. Ive never liked 1 miss BIH anyway and it was more exciting for me to see the couple good shots on the end to"win" instead of a BIH out. And also, why have to drive a ball to a rail after a good hit anyway? It surely would take this behavior out of play and make for different outcomes where you have to make shots CanwinA lot of people feel that you don't have an obligation to call a foul on yourself and that it's not considered cheating if you know you fouled and you don't say anything.
The answer is: It depends on whether or not there is a referee presiding over the match.
If there is no ref, it is understood that both players must act as referees. There's nothing that states you must only referee your opponent and not yourself. Both players must referee both their opponent and them self.
However, if a match is refereed, then it is entirely up to the ref to see a hit and make the call. The players don't have an obligation to make a call on themselves. They can question a ref's call, but they aren't obligated to ref themselves or their opponents.
I disagree with this completely. Both players should do their best to see that all rules are applied all the time. Failing to call a foul on yourself is unethical in my view whether there is a ref or not.
I disagree with this completely. Both players should do their best to see that all rules are applied all the time. Failing to call a foul on yourself is unethical in my view whether there is a ref or not.
Do you recommend as a general course of action that a player clearly states "foul" whenever he or she commits one?I disagree with this completely. Both players should do their best to see that all rules are applied all the time. Failing to call a foul on yourself is unethical in my view whether there is a ref or not.
1.1 Player’s Responsibility
It is the player’s responsibility to be aware of all rules, regulations and schedules applying to competition. While tournament officials will make every reasonable effort to have such information readily available to all players as appropriate, the ultimate responsibility rests with the player.
https://wpapool.com/rules-of-play/
I disagree with this completely. Both players should do their best to see that all rules are applied all the time. Failing to call a foul on yourself is unethical in my view whether there is a ref or not.
I disagree with this completely. Both players should do their best to see that all rules are applied all the time. Failing to call a foul on yourself is unethical in my view whether there is a ref or not.
When there's a ref presiding over the match if you know you fouled and the ref misses it and you don't call it on yourself ---- Unethical, maybe. Illegal, no. That's the distinction I was pointing out as opposed to a match when there's no ref presiding, and by the rules, you must referee yourself and your opponent.
The rules have to be logically consistent. Like for example: When a ref is presiding over a match and you think the ref is wrong in calling a foul on you, you can dispute it, but in the end, the ref's word is what stands, even if the ref is wrong and you're right. If you don't have the right to change a ref's bad decision against you, then you shouldn't be obligated to call a foul on yourself in place of a presiding ref who may have missed it. That wouldn't be logically consistent, and it would tip the rules to being unfair towards the players.
If you're going to give the power to make the calls to the ref, then you have to be consistent about it.
However, if the ref makes enough mistakes like that, that person won't be a ref for much longer.
If there is no ref, it is understood that both players must act as referees. There's nothing that states you must only referee your opponent and not yourself. Both players must referee both their opponent and them self.
Fran, the chain of command in such situations is that a player can appeal to the tournament director if they feel the referee made an incorrect call or is wrong in their interpretation of the rules. The TD's decision would then be final. In the case of a ref's call on a close hit there is no appeal available, unless the match is being recorded and it can be replayed for the TD or head referee to watch. We have used this last option in the Mosconi Cup and World 9-Ball Championship before.
Sounds to me like you're using a vague statement to support a specific interpretation of that statement, then using the lack of a specific statement to invalidate another possible interpretation.
Furthermore, is that exact statement even in the rules used in that tournament?
If both players were required to hold equal responsibility on each and every shot, the rules would be more specific, assuming that "both players must act as referees" is even in the rules.
Rules that say "it's up to the players to referee" or anything vague like that are simply stating a fact, that in the absence of a referee, all fouls will be determined by both of the players. It does not make any other assertion as to what the responsibility is for each player.
Absent any clear cut rule, why should Jennifer have to go out of her way to call a foul that was obvious to everyone in the room? There isn't an injustice when someone chooses not to take ball in hand because they weren't paying attention enough to realize they had ball in hand. If you scratch and then put the cue ball back on the table, are you responsible for making sure your opponent follows through with taking ball in hand?
Since the foul benefits no one but the player receiving ball in hand, they should have some responsibility for paying attention enough to at least ask if it was a foul or not. Players shouldn't be trying to disguise a foul or lie, but when it's obvious or close, the other player needs to claim their right to ball in hand if there are no clear rules saying you have to call fouls on yourself.
I don't play professionally and rely on the game for income or anything like that, so I make sure my opponent knows about any fouls I commit, because it isn't that serious. If I were in Jennifer's shoes, in a professional tournament, I would have done the same thing she did. There is no excuse for Loree Jon to not have seen the foul. Someone at her level should be punished for the lapse in judgement or attentiveness in her own match.
There was no ref so let's just say Jennifer is a bad referee then when it matters most, to say the least, and she clearly must be one of those people you mentioned in your first sentence also. That's too bad. She doesn't miss a thing when it comes to checkin the rack tho.. She made a couple of good shots to "win"at any rate but still.. Ive never liked 1 miss BIH anyway and it was more exciting for me to see the couple good shots on the end to"win" instead of a BIH out. And also, why have to drive a ball to a rail after a good hit anyway? It surely would take this behavior out of play and make for different outcomes where you have to make shots Canwin