Watching mr. 400 trying to break the record

evergruven said:
they apparently found it tuff..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOlxow0l8bE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZbGoiyZ8wQ
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That is anecdotal evidence. More the result of learning curve phenomenon. Seriously... How else was Sigel of that year gonna beat schmidt of that year?

Id theorize slower cloth provides a more favorable margin of error for measures of speed control...a +10% power error would lead to being less distance from target on slower cloth.

Yes, one gets more length on simonis than on backed/ napped/ 21oz...but how often do good players really move the cb large amounts?
 
Black-Balled said:
That is anecdotal evidence. More the result of learning curve phenomenon. Seriously... How else was Sigel of that year gonna beat schmidt of that year?

Id theorize slower cloth provides a more favorable margin of error for measures of speed control...a +10% power error would lead to being less distance from target on slower cloth.

Yes, one gets more length on simonis than on backed/ napped/ 21oz...but how often do good players really move the cb large amounts?
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Billiard games can be played at a higher level on finer cloth.
I got lots of anecdotal evidence for that.
 
MachineGunKelly said:
He ran 434 in Jan this year. On film. Did you see that?
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I saw that and I've applauded the feat loud and long. I'm talking about the "challenge" that's going on right now, 3/20 thru 4/18, have you seen any of it?
Tomorrow, 4/12, is John's birthday, maybe he'll run 546 on his 46th birthday!
 
So much drama in the LBC... I wondered myself recently if slow cloth wouldn’t be a bit easier overall for 14.1 because of tight position and being able to use a more natural stoke, trade off with the breakshot and occasional long position whatever. Who knows?

But I think any run on a normal table size (7-10’) and pocket size (4- 5 1/4”) with any type of long cue shaped object that you propell yourself would count and should be hailed by all. And my opinion holds more weight than pretty much everyone else’s.

Just let the dude run balls and hope he makes it higher than anyone else ever - recorded,witnessed, or otherwise.

-pool authority
 
Johnny Rosato said:
I saw that and I've applauded the feat loud and long. I'm talking about the "challenge" that's going on right now, 3/20 thru 4/18, have you seen any of it?
Tomorrow, 4/12, is John's birthday, maybe he'll run 546 on his 46th birthday!
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Cool trivia...also a girl I love's berfday.
 
Not that this thread is about Grady, but in the late 80’s Grady came into the newish local pool hall in Amberst, MA to do an exhibition, The tables were Connelly furniture tables, and they were all setup poorly or they were bad out of the box. One of the foot corner pockets were tighter than the other three corners, and all pocket facings and sheves combo weren’t very “accepting.”

Grady did a race to 125 or 150 vs Mike Zuglan. They both wore tuxedos. Grady ran a 100+ balls. It was mesmerizing how he dominated such a difficult table. He actually missed on a slow, pocket speed shot that the pocket didn’t want to take. It would have fallen on an easy table.

Freddie <~~~ just one of my Grady Matthews stories
 
I just got back from watching for three days at Bull Shooters. I was there for the 390 on Tuesday.

I agree with some of the other comments -- one way or another, John ends up with too many difficult shots. He makes nearly all of them, but if he managed to cut out half of them his odds would get a lot better.

Right now he is about 82% to get through the rack he is breaking. (Where is AtLarge when you need him?;)) A rough calculation of the top Mosconi-era players I did a while ago said they were likely closer to 90%. One way to look at it is that the difference corresponds to runs that are nearly twice as long.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I just got back from watching for three days at Bull Shooters. I was there for the 390 on Tuesday.

I agree with some of the other comments -- one way or another, John ends up with too many difficult shots. He makes nearly all of them, but if he managed to cut out half of them his odds would get a lot better.

Right now he is about 82% to get through the rack he is breaking. (Where is AtLarge when you need him?;)) A rough calculation of the top Mosconi-era players I did a while ago said they were likely closer to 90%. One way to look at it is that the difference corresponds to runs that are nearly twice as long.
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hi bob, how do you calculate those percentages?
 
evergruven said:
hi bob, how do you calculate those percentages?
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You take anecdotal evidence and try to fit a set of rack-running probabilities to it. It is far from an exact science.
I probably could have done better if I had used all of Ursitti's info but I didn't.
 
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Cornerman said:
Not that this thread is about Grady, but in the late 80’s Grady came into the newish local pool hall in Amberst, MA to do an exhibition, The tables were Connelly furniture tables, and they were all setup poorly or they were bad out of the box. One of the foot corner pockets were tighter than the other three corners, and all pocket facings and sheves combo weren’t very “accepting.”

Grady did a race to 125 or 150 vs Mike Zuglan. They both wore tuxedos. Grady ran a 100+ balls. It was mesmerizing how he dominated such a difficult table. He actually missed on a slow, pocket speed shot that the pocket didn’t want to take. It would have fallen on an easy table.

Freddie <~~~ just one of my Grady Matthews stories
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Was that at Bob's Billiards???
 
skip100 said:
Is fast cloth really an unmitigated advantage in a game where pinpoint position matters and players get in trouble from flying cue balls after the break?

There would have been no Ghost of Willie scratch on nappy cloth...
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First of all: "Ghost of Willie scratch" <- lol

Bob Jewett said:
I think slow cloth does not make 14.1 harder.
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Black-Balled said:
I am inclined to agree that slower cloth may be a bit easier to play on.
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Black-Balled said:
Id theorize slower cloth provides a more favorable margin of error for measures of speed control
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I think it's about matching the required range of stroke speeds with the player's stroke speed comfort zone.

For many, especially those who learned on it, slower cloth does that better. For many others (including me) the expanded range of possibilities on faster cloth is a good trade.

pj
chgo
 
Good grief.

All pool games, but especially for 14.1 where the player is hoping to spend an extended period at the table, you need a cloth that is not too slick but not too nappy -- you want Goldilocks.

And that's why you will often find tournaments installing cloth a few weeks in advance of a big event, so that the cloth, usually Simonis, get's "broken in" which is just a euphemism for it getting it used, abused, abraded, and chalk infused so that the damn stuff slows up a bit and you can control the CB.

I have played in tournaments when the cloth is brand spanking new and the CB uncontrollable. No way you're going to run big numbers unless the cloth has a tad of grab and you can control whitey.

Lou Figueroa
 
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lfigueroa said:
Good grief.

All pool games, but especially for 14.1 where the player is hoping to spend an extended period at the table, you need a cloth that is not too slick but not too nappy -- you want Goldilocks.

And that's why you will often find tournaments installing cloth a few weeks in advance of a big event, so that the cloth, usually Simonis, get's "broken in" which is just a euphemism for it getting it used, abused, abraded, and chalk infused do that the damn stuff slows up a bit and you can control the CB.

I have played in tournaments when the cloth is brand spanking new and the CB uncontrollable. No way you're going to run big numbers unless the cloth has a tad of grab and you can control whitey.

Lou Figueroa
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I hate it when you're right. :wink:
 
lfigueroa said:
... I have played in tournaments when the cloth is brand spanking new and the CB uncontrollable. No way you're going to run big numbers unless the cloth has a tad of grab and you can control whitey. ...
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I remember a lot of pool tournaments held at special venues that had no time for breaking in. I thought that gave an additional advantage to top players because they more frequently got to play on slippery cloth.

For a lot of carom events, the tables are used for a few days for "qualification" phases so the cloth is nicely subdued by the time the seeded players arrive.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I remember a lot of pool tournaments held at special venues that had no time for breaking in. I thought that gave an additional advantage to top players because they more frequently got to play on slippery cloth.

For a lot of carom events, the tables are used for a few days for "qualification" phases so the cloth is nicely subdued by the time the seeded players arrive.
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oh, no kidding.

Adjusting to conditions is a skill unto itself and one that a pro player will acquire more so than the wannabe. IOWs, if you're exposed to a wider variety of cloth, balls, pockets, cushions, lights, etc you should be able to call up a better response than those that are seeing it for the first or an infrequent time.

Lou Figueroa
 
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