Does John Schmidt Get into the Hall of Fame After 626?

[Cardigan Kid]

You must be joking.

Bigger than competing against the world's best and being the last man standing? And, yes, Pagulayan won the world championship in 2004. If a high run record is more important than winning a world championship, why is no other top player giving it any priority?

After last year, when Niels Feijen, one of the best players of all time, wasn't voted in, I started to wonder what the criteria are. Is it about sustained excellence over a long period of time, the kind Feijen has produced, or is it about popularity and the sentiment of the moment?

I see Schmidt as a borderline hall of famer. He won the US Open 9-ball, the Derby City 1-pocket, the Super Billiards 10-ball, but his list of significant titles is very small compared to the guys normally voted in. For example, would you dare compare him to Thorsten Hohmann, who will become eligible this year, who has two sanctioned world championships in straight pool and two sanctioned world championships in nine ball? Thorsten also averaged 50 balls per inning once for the entire event in winning the European Straight Pool Championship, arguably the greatest ever performance in a single straight pool event.

Even in 14.1, John's tournament track record over the years is very forgettable, and his one win at the Charlie Williams 14.1 event was not a sanctioned world title. Does one world record run erase years of fairly forgettable results in 14.1 competition? Not to me it doesn't.

John's 626 is a wonderful achievement and I'm very happy for him but your suggestion this run somehow eclipses all the great accomplishments available in our sport as well as the achievement of others is nonsense of the highest order.

OK by me if John gets voted in somewhere down the road, but if he gets in right now, it's about politics and not about celebrating a career of sustained excellence.

All that said, though, I voted yes, as I think he'll get in at some point.

I see your reasoning here, Stu. But I'll have to disagree in that, the sheer weight of such an accomplishment is to be highlighted here. That's why I even posted Thorsten's comment with the thread--Thorsten being a hall of fame lock for sure, giving the utmost respect to the accomplishment.

With other folks in the hall of fame like Barry Hearn who are there because of accomplishments off of the pool table, that advanced the game, the criteria has been all over the map as to who should be inducted and when. Player, promoter, commentator, all seem to be fair game when judging who gets in (tom rossman, barry hearn, danny diliberto, Terry Bell / Larry Hubbart, Mike Massey, Pat Fleming--all inducted over the last 15 years)

That's why I see this as the ultimate promotion to a game that one would spend a lifetime to accomplish. His hall of fame induction might just ignite a fire in every young player to start recording high runs.

You asked does 1 world record run erase years of fairly forgettable results...I'll have to disagree and say it does here, because no one in history has been able to beat it in over half a century. Will others try now? I hope so.

In other sports, players that weren't necessarily the greatest have been inducted because of a certain accomplishment (joe namath got in just for that 1 Superbowl win that set history on fire). This really should be seen as equal to that. John beat Willie, and the rest is history. Hall of Fames are made for such events.

 

[WildWing]

You must be joking.

Bigger than competing against the world's best and being the last man standing? And, yes, Pagulayan won the world championship in 2004. If a high run record is more important than winning a world championship, why is no other top player giving it any priority?

After last year, when Niels Feijen, one of the best players of all time, wasn't voted in, I started to wonder what the criteria are. Is it about sustained excellence over a long period of time, the kind Feijen has produced, or is it about popularity and the sentiment of the moment?

I see Schmidt as a borderline hall of famer. He won the US Open 9-ball, the Derby City 1-pocket, the Super Billiards 10-ball, but his list of significant titles is very small compared to the guys normally voted in. For example, would you dare compare him to Thorsten Hohmann, who will become eligible this year, who has two sanctioned world championships in straight pool and two sanctioned world championships in nine ball? Thorsten also averaged 50 balls per inning once for the entire event in winning the European Straight Pool Championship, arguably the greatest ever performance in a single straight pool event.

Even in 14.1, John's tournament track record over the years is very forgettable, and his one win at the Charlie Williams 14.1 event was not a sanctioned world title. Does one world record run erase years of fairly forgettable results in 14.1 competition? Not to me it doesn't.

John's 626 is a wonderful achievement and I'm very happy for him but your suggestion this run somehow eclipses all the great accomplishments available in our sport as well as the achievement of others is nonsense of the highest order.

OK by me if John gets voted in somewhere down the road, but if he gets in right now, it's about politics and not about celebrating a career of sustained excellence.

All that said, though, I voted yes, as I think he'll get in at some point.

Understand your points, but there aren't enough world championships, especially in 14.1 that have been consecutively held, to be a criteria for hall of fame.

This record set, does qualify, in my opinion, and by your vote, apparently yours as well.

As I said in the other thread, we have a referee in the hall of fame. How is it that this isn't greater?

All the best,
WW

 

[sjm]

I see your reasoning here, Stu. But I'll have to disagree in that, the sheer weight of such an accomplishment is to be highlighted here. That's why I even posted Thorsten's comment with the thread--Thorsten being a hall of fame lock for sure, giving the utmost respect to the accomplishment.

With other folks in the hall of fame like Barry Hearn who are there because of accomplishments off of the pool table, that advanced the game, the criteria has been all over the map as to who should be inducted and when. Player, promoter, commentator, all seem to be fair game when judging who gets in (tom rossman, barry hearn, danny diliberto, Terry Bell / Larry Hubbart, Mike Massey, Pat Fleming--all inducted over the last 15 years)

That's why I see this as the ultimate promotion to a game that one would spend a lifetime to accomplish. His hall of fame induction might just ignite a fire in every young player to start recording high runs.

You asked does 1 world record run erase years of fairly forgettable results...I'll have to disagree and say it does here, because no one in history has been able to beat it in over half a century. Will others try now? I hope so.

In other sports, players that weren't necessarily the greatest have been inducted because of a certain accomplishment (joe namath got in just for that 1 Superbowl win that set history on fire). This really should be seen as equal to that. John beat Willie, and the rest is history. Hall of Fames are made for such events.

OK, I'll admit I didn't consider the second branch of HOF induction, which is called "meritorious service to the game." I considered John in the player category only and, per my vote, I deemed him a future hall of famer, though not by much.

Whether John's 626 is going to have a profound impact on the game of pool is yet to be seen, but it would be nice. If it does, I don't think the meritorious service to the game category is out of bounds here.

That said, it's hard to imagine that anyone who had no interest in setting the world record will suddenly be inclined to try. I guess we'll see what impact this has. Namath's win, by the way, is widely regarded as having led to a merger between the two largest factions (NFL and AFL) of professional football in America, creating one of the greatest sports juggernauts ever seen in this or any other country. If our sport is about to take off in that way due to John's run, fine, but I highly doubt it and it's arguable whether this an important moment in our sport at all.

 

[pt109]

I voted for John Schmidt for the Hall of Fame.
To hell with the reason, I’m voting with my heart.....
....hearts got rights too

 

[Cornerman]

I'm on work crunch now, but I can add some color to his Wiki page. It is bare bones right now. The Wiki editors will NOT let you post anything unless you have a reference to back it up. They're very strict.

His Wiki page was created in August of 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Schmidt_(pool_player)

.

I added everything pertinent to the record yesterday.

 

[one stroke]

You must be joking.

Bigger than competing against the world's best and being the last man standing? And, yes, Pagulayan won the world championship in 2004. If a high run record is more important than winning a world championship, why is no other top player giving it any priority?

After last year, when Niels Feijen, one of the best players of all time, wasn't voted in, I started to wonder what the criteria are. Is it about sustained excellence over a long period of time, the kind Feijen has produced, or is it about popularity and the sentiment of the moment?

I see Schmidt as a borderline hall of famer. He won the US Open 9-ball, the Derby City 1-pocket, the Super Billiards 10-ball, but his list of significant titles is very small compared to the guys normally voted in. For example, would you dare compare him to Thorsten Hohmann, who will become eligible this year, who has two sanctioned world championships in straight pool and two sanctioned world championships in nine ball? Thorsten also averaged 50 balls per inning once for the entire event in winning the European Straight Pool Championship, arguably the greatest ever performance in a single straight pool event.

Even in 14.1, John's tournament track record over the years is very forgettable, and his one win at the Charlie Williams 14.1 event was not a sanctioned world title. Does one world record run erase years of fairly forgettable results in 14.1 competition? Not to me it doesn't.

John's 626 is a wonderful achievement and I'm very happy for him but your suggestion this run somehow eclipses all the great accomplishments available in our sport as well as the achievement of others is nonsense of the highest order.

OK by me if John gets voted in somewhere down the road, but if he gets in right now, it's about politics and not about celebrating a career of sustained excellence.

All that said, though, I voted yes, as I think he'll get in at some point.

I love this post your really have a way with words as I said last week that if Willie even cared for one second about running more he would have likely shattered that record he simply didn't care and comparing the 2 on level ground in tournament play is simply laughable there is no comparison , , it's a great great feet but it's a novelty accomplishment, not in the spirt of what HOF players are supposed to be

1

 

[Maniac]

In baseball, a pitcher throws a no-hitter and immediately gets into the Baseball HOF, regardless of what he does for the rest of his MLB career. There have been numerous pitchers throw no-hitters over the years (you see one or two every year). It is considered such a great accomplishment that that player and his game go in.

What John Schmidt did is officially set a record that nobody has ever done (at least it cannot be PROVED that it was done). I think he should immediately go into the BCA HOF...at least until someone breaks his record in the future (if that ever happens).

It is one of pool's greatest accomplishments. Just my $0.02.

Maniac

 

[Cornerman]

Just in case there’s some confusion:

John Schmidt is eligible and has been eligible for Hall of Fame submission many years ago. Someone needs to campaign, write a bio, etc.

Thorsten Hohmann will not be eligible for consideration until 2020.

Alex Pagulayan is eligible for submission, nomination, and induction this year.

Corey and Niels were on the ballot last year, and I was surprised they didn’t each collect more votes.

It’s Meritorious this year. Campaign time. Plenty of worthy people to consider including: Cardone, Matthews, Griffin, Sullivan, Brieseth, Helfert, etc.

Freddie <~~~ just one vote

 

[Magyar19]

Of course he does. I see some people are not giving this the credit it deserves like we all knew would happen

 

[westcoast]

He certainly deserves to be in, but so do Corey Deuel, Alex pagulayan, Niels, and Thorsten as they are overall more accomplished than John. Mika is already in, right?

 

[sjm]

What John Schmidt did is officially set a record that nobody has ever done (at least it cannot be PROVED that it was done). I think he should immediately go into the BCA HOF...at least until someone breaks his record in the future (if that ever happens).Maniac

Same with Don Larsen. He threw the only perfect game ever in the World Series in the 1950's against the defending World Champion Brooklyn Dodgers. Nobody had done it before, no one has done it since, and it may never happen again for all we know ..... but Larsen's career never merited Baseball HOF consideration, because in other sports one day of unparalleled, almost incomprehensible, excellence does not a HOFer make.

Let's put Larsen in the Baseball HOF until someone else throws a perfect game in the World Series .... or not.

 

[BRussell]

It’s Meritorious this year. Campaign time. Plenty of worthy people to consider including: Cardone, Matthews, Griffin, Sullivan, Brieseth, Helfert, etc.

Are they alternating years between service and player?

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Same with Don Larsen. He threw the only perfect game ever in the World Series in the 1950's against the defending World Champion Brooklyn Dodgers. Nobody had done it before, no one has done it since, and it may never happen again for all we know ..... but Larsen's career never merited Baseball HOF consideration, because in other sports one day of unparalleled, almost incomprehensible, excellence does not a HOFer make.

Let's put Larsen in the Baseball HOF until someone else throws a perfect game in the World Series .... or not.

"Just your dedication to this impossible quest alone deserves the highest credit. Actually beating it--you are immortal"

-- Thorsten Hohmann, May 28, 2019

All sports have their coveted records and tales of greatness.
I'm following Thorsten on this--this is immortal.
Immortality belongs in the hall of fame. "The highest credit"

 

[JAM]

I added everything pertinent to the record yesterday.

Well done, Cornerman!

We need a photo with no copyright issues. I have one of John with Keith, but I would like to find one of John alone to insert in the Wiki article.

There's a lot of them on Google, but they all belong to somebody else, and Wiki won't allow photos that belong to others without express permission.

Anybody have a photo they're willing to donate to John's Wiki article?

 

[Nick B]

Simple Math

US OPEN + 626 = IN

 

[Nick B]

Same with Don Larsen. He threw the only perfect game ever in the World Series in the 1950's against the defending World Champion Brooklyn Dodgers. Nobody had done it before, no one has done it since, and it may never happen again for all we know ..... but Larsen's career never merited Baseball HOF consideration, because in other sports one day of unparalleled, almost incomprehensible, excellence does not a HOFer make.

Let's put Larsen in the Baseball HOF until someone else throws a perfect game in the World Series .... or not.

Their mistake should equal our mistake. It's a valid argument but alas that's baseballs problem. Earl is in. Pete Rose is not. They have more Juice Monkey records than I could count. Apples and Oranges.

JS in.

 

[Magyar19]

Same with Don Larsen. He threw the only perfect game ever in the World Series in the 1950's against the defending World Champion Brooklyn Dodgers. Nobody had done it before, no one has done it since, and it may never happen again for all we know ..... but Larsen's career never merited Baseball HOF consideration, because in other sports one day of unparalleled, almost incomprehensible, excellence does not a HOFer make.

Let's put Larsen in the Baseball HOF until someone else throws a perfect game in the World Series .... or not.

You're really going to compare the two? Come on man!

 

[Mick]

it's arguable whether this an important moment in our sport at all.

Nah. I've been playing since around 1990 and there's been NOTHING this big that's happened in pool since I took the game up, and I can't think of anything for decades before then that tops this either. Whether this makes a dent in pool participation and exposure remains to be seen, but if it doesn't, nothing will. This is as big as it gets in the billiard world.

Edit: I'm just happy it's going to bump up straight pool interest. I've been kicking around the idea of starting a 14.1 league for awhile and there's probably never going to be a better time.

 

[Ty Arnold]

Yeah this is big for pool. I just read an article about the 626 record in the New York Times. Not often pool gets national news coverage. Congratulations!

 

[Cornerman]

Are they alternating years between service and player?

The Hall of Fame Committee alternate Meritorious Service and Veteran Player categories. The Player Category for players under 60 years old is every year. Alex Pagulayan is newly eligible as of this year.