Can anyone identify these two players?

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kkdanamatt

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More info on Snaggle Tooth and Stan Moryz ?

1.
He was a NY State 14.1 Champion in the late 1950's or early 1960's.
I watched him run over a hundred balls many times in his Coney Island poolroom, located on Stillwell Avenue on the second floor above the merry-go-round.
I think his last name was Moran or something similar.
He was in his late 30's at that time, about 1963-64.
When his poolroom closed, I never saw him again.

2.
He was an black hustler from Hightstown, NJ., about 50 years old.
I met him in New Brunswick when "The Hustler" came out.
I was 19 at the time.
They called him Snag, but I never knew his real name.
Snag had bad front teeth, I guess that's how he got his nickname.
Snag always shot with a house cue.
Very delicate stroke, similar to Johnny Ervolino.
Snag beat both Mike The Russian and Mike Sica for some serious cash in 9-Ball.
Then I drove Snag to Paddy's 7-11 in NYC and he made a small score off a shortstop.
He gave me half, about $40.
We stopped at a liquor store in Passaic NJ where he bought a pint of whiskey.
It was past midnight when I dropped him off at an all black poolroom in Passaic, run by a guy they called Sarge.
It was 10 cents a rack.
Sarge carried the rack around his neck, collected the money and racked the balls.
Snag got into a ring game right away, but I had my '47 Plymouth parked outside and drove back to Rutgers because I had an early class.
I never saw Snag again.
 
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Was #1 Frank McGown? NY State Champion, about the right age, and played in Brooklyn.
 
Stu, I thought about that.
But, I can't find any information that Frank McGown ran a poolroom in Coney Island in the early '60's.
Frank was a partner with Jean Balukas' dad in a Brooklyn poolroom, but I don't know which one.
Also, my "Moran" guy was short, about 5' 8".
Wasn't Frank McGown quite a bit taller?
Lou Figueroa played McGown in a 14.1 exhibition match.
Maybe he can chime in?
 
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that was frank mcgowen. his pool room was in coney island. i think that was the one he owned with george balabuska. coney island is part of brooklyn. skippy frank was one of the best ever straight pool players. he ended up in billings montana. he liked me as i would go to fish the big horn and so did he. thats why he moved there and ran a small string of poolrooms using a montana brand of tables(poolrooms) he was a partner in. i tried to lock him up a few times but he played so slow it wasnt even worth it or fun to play with him for money. and he was always too busy anyway to be bothered. he died there as well.
he would be in his late 80's if still around.

second guy played super good. i never heard his name. he came around rooms and looked for cheap games. white guys didnt play black guys too often if they didnt know them well then as they were afraid of them. he was a player from passaic as i remember.
 
kkdanamatt said:
1.
He was a NY State 14.1 Champion in the late 1950's or early 1960's.
I watched him run over a hundred balls many times in his Coney Island poolroom, located on Stillwell Avenue on the second floor above the merry-go-round.
I think his last name was Moran or something similar.
He was in his late 30's at that time, about 1963-64.
When his poolroom closed, I never saw him again.

2.
He was an black hustler from Hightstown, NJ., about 50 years old.
I met him in New Brunswick when "The Hustler" came out.
I was 19 at the time.
They called him Snag, but I never knew his real name.
Snag had bad front teeth, I guess that's how he got his nickname.
Snag always shot with a house cue.
Very delicate stroke, similar to Johnny Ervolino.
Snag beat both Mike The Russian and Mike Sica for some serious cash in 9-Ball.
Then I drove Snag to Paddy's 7-11 in NYC and he made a small score off a shortstop.
He gave me half, about $40.
We stopped at a liquor store in Passaic NJ where he bought a pint of whiskey.
It was past midnight when I dropped him off at an all black poolroom in Passaic, run by a guy they called Sarge.
It was 10 cents a rack.
Sarge carried the rack around his neck, collected the money and racked the balls.
Snag got into a ring game right away, but I had my '47 Plymouth parked outside and drove back to Rutgers because I had an early class.
I never saw Snag again.
Click to expand...

First guy is definitely Frank McGown. The second guy mostly hung around Broadway Billiards (and the other Manhattan poolrooms in the 60's) which was downstairs and had a mostly black clientele, all of them hustlers and shortstops. I played him Bank Pool there sometime in 1966 or '67. $10 Full Rack Banks. I couldn't beat him and he didn't really beat me either. I quit him one or two games loser. Saw him a few times after that but we never played again. I remember him because they called him Snaggle Tooth and it made me think of Buck Tooth, another hustler.
 
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kkdanamatt said:
Frank was a partner with Jean Balukas' dad in a Brooklyn poolroom, but I don't know which one.
Click to expand...

Frank McGown and Al Balukas were partners in Ovington Billiards, later renamed Hall of Fame Billiards in, I believe, Bay Ridge, Brookyln.
 
jay you got lucky quitting that guy he was a really good player and played close to country, and stalled better than brooklyn jimmy playing a ten year old for his candy.
 
kkdanamatt said:
1.
He was a NY State 14.1 Champion in the late 1950's or early 1960's.
I watched him run over a hundred balls many times in his Coney Island poolroom, located on Stillwell Avenue on the second floor above the merry-go-round.
I think his last name was Moran or something similar.
He was in his late 30's at that time, about 1963-64.
When his poolroom closed, I never saw him again.
Click to expand...

First time I got into 9-ball...1965...Buffalo...I was a snooker player..but 9-ball suited me also.
Played about 30 guys...I was a bit flush by then....went to another pool hall...had Gold Crowns.
A man was playing on the front table....he played at a higher level than anybody I had played.
I just sat and watched him for a few hours, I was fascinated...’he was giving someone the
8 playing 9-ball....I was very accurate then..but I was a banger...this man’s cue ball control
was amazing to me. I learned that his best game was straight pool...although he considered
himself a rank below Crane and Cranfield.

His name was Joe Moran.
 
book collector said:
Here's a pic of McGown
http://untoldstoriesbilliardshistory.blogspot.com/2010/09/rip-frank-mcgown-new-york-pool-legend.html
Click to expand...

The first guy probably wasn't Frank McGown.
I now remember his first name.
I'm almost positive it was Stan.
I'm still not sure of his last name...Moran, Moritz, ??
He was short, about 5' 8".
I'm sure McGown was much taller.


Jay, you said that you played Snag in NYC.
Did he fit my description: about 50 years old (in the early '60's), front snaggle-tooth, smooth delicate stroke like Ervolino?
Yes, he was always on the hustle, lemonaded his true speed, played cheap games with "tourists".
He had a great sense of humor, drank from a pint in his pocket, and never seemed to have trouble finding pretty ladies.
 
kkdanamatt said:
The first guy probably wasn't Frank McGown.
I now remember his first name.
I'm almost positive it was Stan.
I'm still not sure of his last name...Moran, Moritz, ??
He was short, about 5' 8".
I'm sure McGown was much taller.


Jay, you said that you played Snag in NYC.
Did he fit my description: about 50 years old (in the early '60's), front snaggle-tooth, smooth delicate stroke like Ervolino?
Yes, he was always on the hustle, lemonaded his true speed, played cheap games with "tourists".
He had a great sense of humor, drank from a pint in his pocket, and never seemed to have trouble finding pretty ladies.
Click to expand...

You want Stanley Moryz. Yes, he was a very good player. McGown was probably about 6' tall.

As far as Snaggletooth is concerned, he was an older man but he had a lot of energy and gab, so I didn't think of him as being so old. He picked me out as a tourist and he was right, but I could play pretty strong Banks. I was mentored by Joe Burns, who was only a ball or so under Taylor. I just took to the game for some reason and have always played it a full speed above my best at any other game. I've won matches and money against many good players at Banks. It took a top Banker (like Youngblood or Truman) to give me 5-4 and win.

Yes he played good but so did I. That was the only game I would play him. By the way there were other black players in New York that played close to his speed. Remember Cisero was around back then and Snaggletooth was not in his league. And the king of the black hustlers was definitely Country, a legendary player. Country was the East Coast version of Jack Cooney. Not many people knew his true speed and he was careful not to reveal it. He would hang around for days or weeks sizing up his mark and then strike like a cobra. He had a knack for getting guys with money to bet uncomfortable amounts and taking them off, usually in one long session. I saw him at work a couple of times at Guys and Dolls and he just looked like another average player. Meanwhile he was playing $100 9-Ball when everyone else was betting five and ten dollars a game.

Snaggle Tooth wouldn't dare venture into 7/11, a room that was full of champions. He was a small time hustler who made a living playing "sociable" pool, as we used to call it. Broadway and McGirrs were full of hustlers like him, who were ready to jump on anyone who walked through the doors. After I played him that one time, no one else in there would play me Banks. They only wanted to play 9-Ball or Eight Ball. I was not a good hustler! I just wanted to play every day. I got passed around at 7/11 from Ervolino to Jersey Red to Blackie to Richie Ambrose and the notorious Rex. I never bet more than $5 a game and never got a spot from any of them and never won! I paid my dues but in the process became a much better player.

I had my moment in the Sun when I moved to California. I won day after day, exploring every pool hall I could find. I learned who to play and who to avoid. I saved money and actually had a bank account, something almost unknown among pool players. :smile:
 
book collector said:
Here's a pic of McGown
http://untoldstoriesbilliardshistory.blogspot.com/2010/09/rip-frank-mcgown-new-york-pool-legend.html
Click to expand...

Frank moved to Montana to be the General Manager of a chain of poolrooms (Corner Pockets) that eventually had over thirty rooms in the Western U.S. I think he also liked all the hunting and fishing available to him in Montana. I forget the man's name (Chuck ?) who owned Corner Pockets of America. They were the sponsor of some of Richie Florence's big tournaments at Caesars Tahoe and Caesars Palace. I worked as Richie's TD in most of them. If you ever see the video of Earl's big win over Steve Mizerak in Lake Tahoe, you will see the big Corner Pockets logo embedded in the cloth. I thought it was terrible but they put money in the pot!
 
70's

During Franks time with Montana and getting the corner pocket dream going CO was one of their targets.
Colorado Springs sprouted up 4 or five of em, and one of the structures is Still going in Widefield CO.
Corner Pocket pol rooms were laid out well, a good floor plan and beer and a grille, many had outdoor patios.
In the early 70's when I first played at the CP I was amazed at how different the quality of this commercial table was to a Gold Crown.
They used Gold Cloth in most rooms, and their bar tables were all 4 x 8's.

One of thee most unusual (pool table) things in my life happened on that table one night. 8 ball match, had a cut in the side at a high speed, made it and came around 4 + rails for my next ball/area.
Welllllllllllllll the ball went ''In" came out the other side pocket,and back on too the play surface.
 
jay helfert said:
You want Stanley Moryz. Yes, he was a very good player.

Yes, That's the guy...Stan Moryz.
How and where did you find his name?
Did he actually win the NY State 14.1 Championship?
That's what he told me back in '63 or '64.
I can't locate any records for those years, ie. late '50's to early '60's.
I think he was in the military before he opened the poolroom in Coney Island.

He also told me that he ran "over 250 many times".

One night, (the night of the first Cassius Clay-Sonny Liston fight), in his Coney Island pool room on Surf Avenue, I watched him on a run of 197.
This was on a regular Gold Crown II with the old Mali cloth.
Stan didn't miss.
Then a young couple came in to play pool and there were no other empty tables.
Stan just gave them his table and unscrewed his cue.
My jaw dropped because I had never seen a run of 200 and I "knew" he could have done it that night.
Can you imagine running 197 and quitting the run?
What bugs me is that Stan Moryz's name is never mentioned when discussing great NYC pool players from that era.
Does anyone else remember him?
Click to expand...
 
I gather that Frank McGowan has been, so to speak, eliminated as "Player #1. But, since his name has come up and since Island Drive has mentioned his having played 14.1 on TV, I feel compelled to share one of my earliest pool memories. It would have been in the very early '60's, and I had never been out of the straight-pool-ignorant Midwest. Onto TV came a tournament with Frank McGowan playing in it as a steep underdog. If I recall, the tournament, or whatever it was, had among others Irving Crane playing in it, so you have a notion of the field, McGowan won--and I can't remember whether he won a match against a higher ranked rival or whether he won the whole thing. The commentator interviewed McGowan after his victory. He kept asking questions which emphasized the fact that McGowan had been the underdog going in. After about the third such question, McGowan looked at him and said, "The truth is, I don't play in any pool games I don't expect to win."
 
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