John Schmidt's 626

[Dan Harriman]

Video

Wait one minute. At the risk of offending, this needs to be considered. Video evidence is not everything. In fact, millions of people have been executed based upon oral testimony alone. As humans, we learn to assess folk's character, and, in most instances, our instinct is all we have. So forget a video exists. I will ask again, who out there knows John Schmidt well enough to speak to his character? to his habit of calling or not calling fouls on himself? This is where any inquiry such as this is required to begin.

Still tryin the distraction eh, I guess i'm supposed to attack his character now - sorry no dice :-0 Your right video evidence is not everything - 'un edited' video evidence after two years of waiting in this case - is Everything. The bca and j.s. will need to provide un edited proof to the 'non semi public' before 'the people' wil accept that Willie's 526 has in fact been surpassed. I'm sure if I asked u why their evidence is only open to semi public - u would say they are still trying to monetize a profit. I see things before they happen - it's a Jedi trait. Here is an interesting question to bca,j.s. and jewett "Gee I heard someone ran 626 in 14.1, where can I get a copy of this run so a can view it at my home many times over"? bca and j.s.'s answer - "well it's complicated but there is no video we can actually send to u in the mail - thanks for the interest."
I think they call that plausible deniability.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The 38th rack was the record setting rack, starting at 518 and ending at 532, surpassing Mosconi’s 526 record right in the middle of that rack. That is obviously why he was being extremely careful and slowed down considerably during that rack.

Thanks for that insight, Chris.

pj
chgo

 

[lfigueroa]

YOU have a problem with Hairyman. He has control of YOU and there's NOTHING YOU can do about Hairyman controlling YOU. Just keep on
Black-BLOWHARD-Balled. I can take it and I can dish it out. Don't have to sign, YOU know.

lol, ok that was pretty funny and deserving of a greenie to help offset some of Bob’s red boogers.

Lou Figueroa
still chuckling

 

[lfigueroa]

Ok. I’ll do that. To refresh, here is my contention that you are claiming is untrue, and where you want me to quote what would lead me to believe that. My contention was “you don't think the record probably happened.”



There are plenty of your posts in other threads that support my contention that “you don’t think the record probably happened” as well as I recall, but here are just a portion of the ones from this thread.



“Highly likely there’s a problem with the run” is certainly equivalent to “you don’t think the record probably happened”. No need to go any further, but…

When somebody posted the New York Times article about John breaking the record, your response was “fake news”, as in the record didn’t happen.


Here you are referring to the record in quotes to imply that you don’t think it is probably legitimate.



Here is you just flat saying a legitimate record did not happen.



Here is you saying there doesn’t appear to be a record run.



So, tell me again how “you don't think the record probably happened” is an incorrect interpretation of your views?

That’s it? Really?

OK, just quickly running through these:

The first would be stating the obvious. If the run was clean he would have released unedited video and made whatever dough he could have. Now, no one cares.

The NYTimes ran with a press release. Their fact checker called the BCA and someone there confirmed they had “certified” the run. The reporter didn’t investigate further. But it was such a nothing-burger story re a backwater sport I can’t really fault the reporter.

Until there’s unedited video of the run released there will always be an asterisk for many of us.

Same. No video, no run.

So look. As much as I enjoyed having you play fetch for me I hate repeating myself, so in the future you’re going to have to attempt to wring a confession out of someone else.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Poolplaya9]

Lou nor myself have never called j.s. a 'liar'. We are simply asking to see unedited video, but yea I see how u tried to manipulate that - poolplaya6' - no bueno. If u go back and look through my thread - u will see that Lou and myself are not alone in asking for unedited video, many other az members have asked to own a copy of the bca and j.s hysteria' but after two years - they are still trying to monetize their lack of evidence. Records are made to be broken, however extraordinary claims - require extraordinary evidence. I see nothing that even resembles extraordinary evidence from bca or jewett. Out of the thirty thousand + views the thread I started has received - I would say at least half are still waiting for a copy of unedited video proof and have offered good $ for a signed copy, after two years - they are still waiting. At this point it does look like a possible media lie - but again do not try and twist my words - read right through u - I can.

You aren't understanding.

I haven't said desiring to see an unedited video of the run is unreasonable. I haven't said not being 100% convinced beyond a doubt that the new record was set is unreasonable.

What I said is given the evidence, being convinced the record was not broken, or even being convinced that it is pretty likely that the record was not broken, is unreasonable and flies in the face of the evidence. What I also said was that given the totality of the evidence, calling Bob Jewett and the others a liar here is unreasonable, and if someone says the record was not broken, or that they did not witness what they claimed to have witnessed, it is calling them a liar.

Please read the above again real carefully. Now read it again even more carefully. Make sure you got it. Good, moving on now...

So you want to see an unedited copy of the video. Duly noted. We all do. Welcome to the club.

 

[Black-Balled]

the people who have crippled you
you want to see them burn.
The gates of Life have closed on you
and now there's just no return.
you're wishing that the hands of Doom
could take your mind away.
and you don't care if you don't see again
the light of day.

-john o.

 

[Poolplaya9]

That’s it? Really?

OK, just quickly running through these:

The first would be stating the obvious. If the run was clean he would have released unedited video and made whatever dough he could have. Now, no one cares.

The NYTimes ran with a press release. Their fact checker called the BCA and someone there confirmed they had “certified” the run. The reporter didn’t investigate further. But it was such a nothing-burger story re a backwater sport I can’t really fault the reporter.

Until there’s unedited video of the run released there will always be an asterisk for many of us.

Same. No video, no run.

So look. As much as I enjoyed having you play fetch for me I hate repeating myself, so in the future you’re going to have to attempt to wring a confession out of someone else.

Lou Figueroa

You give the confession in almost every post, and the obvious is that you don't think the record probably happened. Which you've clearly said, and I've clearly said. There isn't any doubt about that whatsoever.

Where we disagree is on whether that is a logical and reasonable belief. It isn't, although having some doubt could in fact be reasonable. Time for you to get logical and reasonable on this one.

 

[Dan Harriman]

yep

You aren't understanding.

I haven't said desiring to see an unedited video of the run is unreasonable. I haven't said not being 100% convinced beyond a doubt that the new record was set is unreasonable.

What I said is given the evidence, being convinced the record was not broken, or even being convinced that it is pretty likely that the record was not broken, is unreasonable and flies in the face of the evidence. What I also said was that given the totality of the evidence, calling Bob Jewett and the others a liar here is unreasonable, and if someone says the record was not broken, or that they did not witness what they claimed to have witnessed, it is calling them a liar.

Please read the above again real carefully. Now read it again even more carefully. Make sure you got it. Good, moving on now...

So you want to see an unedited copy of the video. Duly noted. We all do. Welcome to the club.

Questioning the powers that b - is not the same as literally calling another person a liar - the last time I checked - so again yer wrong. I can tell ur intelligent enough to not believe everthang' u read - but please do not be a word twister - unless it's friendly semantics. I never literally called Bob Jewett a liar - nor did Lou, eye' only questioned why there is no un edited video available for the public to view. I was last American standing at World 14.1 event, someone with an acronym (bca) is printing in ny times that Willie Mosconi's 526 has been bested - but after two yrs I have not seen any unedited video proof - something ain't stirring the kool-aid. My gut feeling here says to not only question it - but to interrogate the group that appears to be abusing the media and or misrepresenting j.s actual achievements regarding the 'mystery video 626' that is being purposely hidden from the eye of general public. It would appear that the bca has turned into sum sort of special interest group. If I had run more racks than Willie - I could not have been secretive about the accomplishment - and would have never even had a fish story to market to the public - unless I had un edited footage ready and available - that was legit to market.

 

[Poolplaya9]

Questioning the powers that b - is not the same as literally calling another person a liar - the last time I checked - so again yer wrong. I can tell ur intelligent enough to not believe everthang' u read - but please do not be a word twister - unless it's friendly semantics. I never literally called Bob Jewett a liar - nor did Lou, eye' only questioned why there is no un edited video available for the public to view. I was last American standing at World 14.1 event, someone with an acronym (bca) is printing in ny times that Willie Mosconi's 526 has been bested - but after two yrs I have not seen any unedited video proof - something ain't stirring the kool-aid. My gut feeling here says to not only question it - but to interrogate the group that appears to be abusing the media and or misrepresenting j.s actual achievements regarding the 'mystery video 626' that is being purposely hidden from the eye of general public. It would appear that the bca has turned into sum sort of special interest group. If I had run more racks than Willie - I could not have been secretive about the accomplishment - and would have never even had a fish story to market to the public - unless I had un edited footage ready and available - that was legit to market.

If somebody tells you they witnessed something, and you say you don't believe it, that is calling them a liar. Now I'm not saying it is never appropriate to call somebody a liar, sometimes it is. And if you don't know the person at all it is certainly a lot easier to justify. But when it is somebody known for their knowledge, intelligence, and character, and regarding an issue where they would have no obvious reason to want to risk their reputation to lie about it, you start to need a lot more evidence for the lying before you can call them a liar, evidence that just doesn't exist here. Now I know that Lou knows Bob enough to be very familiar with his knowledge, intelligence, and character, and I'm pretty sure you do too, but perhaps not.

Changing subjects, I have a question for you. And it is an honest question, not one where my hope is to somehow make you look bad, or somehow trick you, or anything else of any nefarious sort. If you were sufficiently motivated, and I will let you decide what it would take to sufficiently motivate you, whether it be a big prize fund or whatever else, do you think that you would be capable of beating Mosconi's record of 526 on the same kind of table that he did it on, a 4x8 with bucket pockets? I'm inclined to think that if sufficiently motivated you are probably capable, but of course it would be a tough feat and take some work, but what do you think? And if you think you would probably be capable, what would your guess be for how long it would take you if you were real motivated to get it done?

 

[lfigueroa]

You give the confession in almost every post, and the obvious is that you don't think the record probably happened. Which you've clearly said, and I've clearly said. There isn't any doubt about that whatsoever.

Where we disagree is on whether that is a logical and reasonable belief. It isn't, although having some doubt could in fact be reasonable. Time for you to get logical and reasonable on this one.

Whatever you say, Cardinal Ximénez.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Ghosst]

Questioning the powers that b ...

Still can't beat the record eh? Well, we don't all get to grow up and be world-record holders. Pass the ketchup would ya?

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Still tryin the distraction eh, I guess i'm supposed to attack his character now - sorry no dice :-0 Your right video evidence is not everything - 'un edited' video evidence after two years of waiting in this case - is Everything. The bca and j.s. will need to provide un edited proof to the 'non semi public' before 'the people' wil accept that Willie's 526 has in fact been surpassed. I'm sure if I asked u why their evidence is only open to semi public - u would say they are still trying to monetize a profit. I see things before they happen - it's a Jedi trait. Here is an interesting question to bca,j.s. and jewett "Gee I heard someone ran 626 in 14.1, where can I get a copy of this run so a can view it at my home many times over"? bca and j.s.'s answer - "well it's complicated but there is no video we can actually send to u in the mail - thanks for the interest."
I think they call that plausible deniability.

I'm not about distraction, I am about truth. I've spent near 40 years chasing truth professionally, and I've raised three sons and a daughter. I've seen enough lies and bullshit to last 4 lifetimes, and, I assure you I know the truth when I see it and I know how to find the truth even when people are trying to hide it. I am dead serious about oral evidence and a person's reputation -- a lot of times that's all we have -- and many people have been judicially killed based simply upon words. This is one reason why truth is so important -- one never knows when the truth and your word might be the only two things you have to defend yourself with, the only two things standing between you and many years in prison or death. I am not kidding.

I am looking at this from both sides: two ends against the middle. I have, and will, call things like I see them, damn the consequences and who gets hurt -- but only when I am fully informed. It's all I can do -- it is how I was made and raised. For me, it is the only way I can live.

I told in a previous post what I felt about Bob Jewett -- I stand by it. I also spoke honestly and said I do not know Schmidt, and asked for someone who did know him to stand up and say . . . This is where I would like to begin my inquiry.

Let me ask about the video. Is it true that JS was actively pursuing the record? Does anyone know the details about the video? Was the video a "professional" set up? Who was hired to do the video? Multiple cameras? "Special" Lighting? What are the other right questions remaining to ask about video? My point is that if I was chasing a record believing I could break it, I would spend my last nickel, sell my extra cues, and plow it all into making the best video available, especially if I had any inkling that I was going to try to make money off the video. (Right? Does this make sense?)

SO, WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE EFFORT/MONEY PUT INTO THE VIDEO AND THE RESULTING QUALITY OF THE VIDEO WHICH IS BEING MARKETED?

I also think I made it clear that the money argument was, in my limited experience, not there. I would not allow my reputation to suffer. I asked for info about how much one could maybe make on a video. I will add that I believe the video's value diminishes with every passing day. The only way that real money might be realized is if somewhere in the world 14:1 is more popular than the US. The US 14:1 audience just ain't gonna do it. JS has a better chance of cashing in by getting Tom Cruise to star in the semi-autobiographical movie "JS: His Life and Times in Chasing, Catching, and Passing Willie".

So to hell with your "distraction" -- really read and digest this, and my other posts, and you will see I am doing my best to steer a middle course and learn about this deal -- this is my first exposure. Once I know enough, then I may say what I think. But if I do tell you, it ain't gonna be no "distraction". It will be something that will not easily wash off -- one way or another -- like the chicken man says "strong as catpiss".

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Please listen. When a life-long Catholic, former altar boy, begins citing King James, something must be going down:

“But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

The other disciples therefore said unto him, ‘We have seen the Lord.’ But he said unto them, ‘Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.’

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, ‘Peace be unto you.’

Then saith he to Thomas, ‘Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.’

And Thomas answered and said unto him, ‘My Lord and my God.’

Jesus saith unto him, ‘Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.’”

John, 20:24-29

Since everyone has quieted down, might we contemplate faith and trust and pray for the grace necessary to tolerate all of life’s incomprehensible mysteries.

 

[arnaldo]

. . . blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

John, 2020

I am thereby among the blessed regarding the historic 626 run (haven't yet seen, and yet believe, having seen his publicly-available 494)).

Arnaldo ~ Patiently awaiting release of the instructively voiceovered video that John and his team have already completed and have thankfully edited to eliminate non-contributory playing pauses -- at or away from the table -- and all biobreaks, etc. (Btw it's likely that Willie -- then in his mid-forties -- paused for a biobreak or two during his 526 run.)

 

[VarmintKong]

It ticks me off this guy worked so hard for this accomplishment and can’t even make a buck off it. The interview in August 2019 Billiards Digest ended with something along the lines of, “if the world won’t let me get something out of this, I guess they’ll never see it.” A Dawg-Gone shame for a record I would give the equivalency of breaking DiMaggio’s 56 game hit streak.

This should have galvanized the pool playing community, but it’s been pathetic. Several pages ago there was some decent discussion regarding the final shot. How cool would it have been to examine different approaches to some of the break balls or analysis of approach to the end game of specific racks throughout the run? Nope, it ain’t easy being green; let’s tear the man down.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

VARMINTKONG
"This should have galvanized the pool playing community"

Surely you jest. I believe that you misapprehend the number of 14:1 aficionados in today's pool world. I believe that for every 1,000 1P players there might be one (1) 14:1 player. But, let's see what the interweb and our brethern can tell us. How many players US/World for 14:1, "Billiards", snooker, 9 or 10 ball, 1P, etc.? Buuuttt NO BUMPER POOL. LOL. Who invented that crap any way? On subject, though, I wonder how the numbers for 14:1 and bumper pool would compare? (Just kidding, Bob. I know 14:1 takes that one,)

Having good, accurate data on the number of users by area and discipline will provide a good first step.

As I keep saying, I played a lot of 14:1 during 8 years of college (way long ago). Mississippi's AAU pool tournaments were 14:1 back then. Plus, I met 3 cats from Chicago who knew the game and got lost down here while chasing year round golf weather, and we played straight pool 3 to 5 times a week for $1 a point -- not big money for the momma's boys over on Frat Row but pretty serious bucks for a Back Bay street urchin working his way through. lol. Pool was sorta like romance: I really liked straight pool but it never got a hook in me the way 1P did. But I digress . . .

When I finished my schooling and returned home to Biloxi, my 14:1 days ended. No need to wonder why, though, because I know the cause: no one played the game down here. So, is mine a typical example? I wish not but fear so. One could consider 14:1 my first "pool crush", but when it was over, it was over, and I never looked back.

14:1, imho, lacks popularity, and popularity is what makes the green pile up in the till. If someone forced me to play the hand JS is holding right now, I would try to sell my life story (and not the "run video") to Hollywood -- I would invent, embellish, etc., until I had a riveting tale of travel, adventure, and intrigue, with the game of pool, gambling, and competition running all through it, and overarching all: Willie and his record and my pursuit . . . Hell, Lou Figueroa can be the model for, and play, Schmidt's arch nemisis -- who could imagine. LOL. What the hell, like Ophra on "car day", a bunch of folks could get roles -- "you getta . . ." I am willing to bet that JS has led an interesting enough life and has great tales to tell. Besides, we are overdue for a good pool movie. Anyone interested in seeing such a film?

Meanwhile, if we can secure the data described above (I'll try in the a.m.) we can begin to figure out a theoretical value of the "run video".

 

[logical]

Why some can't understand that being convinced the 626 didn't legitimately happen is no more or less justified than believing it absolutely did legitimately happen is the fundamental problem here. If simply wanting it to not be real is enough for some of you to be convinced it isn't there is nothing anyone can post to change another's mind.

Sent from the future.

 

[Johnny Rosato]

**********

 

[jay helfert]

It's been brought to my attention that there were inconsistencies in the video of Schmidt's 626 ball run. It has to do with cue ball and break ball positioning between innings. This by someone who watched it entirely from start to finish. I am now of the opinion that it is correct to question whether he did in fact make this run cleanly or not. Personally I'm on the fence about it now. It could have happened just the way John claimed and it may be bogus. I don't know.

 

[jay helfert]

I am thereby among the blessed regarding the historic 626 run (haven't yet seen, and yet believe, having seen his publicly-available 494)).

Arnaldo ~ Patiently awaiting release of the instructively voiceovered video that John and his team have already completed and have thankfully edited to eliminate non-contributory playing pauses -- at or away from the table -- and all biobreaks, etc. (Btw it's likely that Willie -- then in his mid-forties -- paused for a biobreak or two during his 526 run.)

Edited being the key word here.