John Schmidt's 626

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
all those ball polishings

It's been brought to my attention that there were inconsistencies in the video of Schmidt's 626 ball run. It has to do with cue ball and break ball positioning between innings. This by someone who watched it entirely from start to finish. I am now of the opinion that it is correct to question whether he did in fact make this run cleanly or not. Personally I'm on the fence about it now. It could have happened just the way John claimed and it may be bogus. I don't know.


All those ball polishings would seem to give the opportunity for a little fudging or for accidental errors.

Either would invalidate the record I believe. I have to admit that the time between the run and sending a video for validation left time for some video editing too. Nothing crude, frame by frame editing. Video can lie as easily as photo's today.

When things are considered that bug me a little, the witnesses. First four, then five, then six, finally eight in the early days after the attempt. Most of the eight don't hold water as watched every shot witnesses especially as this was one of hundreds of attempts.

john may have set the record but I think we have little or no better proof than Cranfield or others including Willie himself setting it. Isn't Ursertti the one that saw Willie run over six hundred unfinished? Butchered the spelling of his name no doubt but no reason to question his credibility!

When the BCA called something behind closed doors an exhibition run that smacked of pure bs to me. People getting ready to open a business, wives chatting and drinking coffee in all likelihood, are these really focused on one of john's endless attempts after months? Possible but it doesn't pass the sniff test.

The low angle video from a single camera has to have john's body blocking shots too. I suspect why Bob said he didn't see any fouls, not that none existed. Too, it is brutally hard to watch john run balls long except in lots of pieces. We know the ending so we know the middle. I had his 247 ball run and found that impossible to watch in one sitting.

At this point the video can prove conclusively that a legitimate record wasn't set, it can only indicate that one was most likely set.

If john wants an almost universally accepted record he will need a real audience or cameras that can capture all of the action, both to please some record keepers. There is also the matter of john's supplements for some record keepers. Taking more than the RDA of anything is considered doping by some.

john's attempts were very backyard and amateurish. Therein lies much of the skepticism. Most simply don't care.

Hu
 

logical

Part of the Conspiracy
Silver Member
Only in "professional" pool could 9 months of hard work by a team of people yeild no more than a few grand in income, a huge net loss...and at least one former player and his evil twin / alternate personality devoting their life to insisting it never happened.

Is it really any wonder some of us are simply content with a home table and a recreational hobby?
 
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Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
Hmmm...I'd think Bob Jewett would have spotted this given his straight pool expertise and general good reputation. In these times it's very hard to take the word of any anonymous source seriously, no offense to Jay Helfert who also has a very good reputation.

Unfortunately for JS, as long as the video is not released there will always be a dark cloud of doubt over the whole thing, it's just the way the world works, now. People are generally much more sceptical about events taking place when they can't see video etc.

It is likely that any inconsistencies came from the polishing and replacing of balls. If the removal and replacing of the balls is in the video, it is understandable that you might miss it unless you scrutinized every break shot.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
It's been brought to my attention that there were inconsistencies in the video of Schmidt's 626 ball run. It has to do with cue ball and break ball positioning between innings. This by someone who watched it entirely from start to finish. I am now of the opinion that it is correct to question whether he did in fact make this run cleanly or not. Personally I'm on the fence about it now. It could have happened just the way John claimed and it may be bogus. I don't know.
You need to provide a little more detail, Jay. Above I posted a complete list of all the break shots including the time during the run, the number of the break ball, and which side of the rack it was on, all observed from the unedited video.

Which break shot are you referring to?
 

xradarx

Radar is the name, billiards is the game
Silver Member
This! After 17 months of nothing....

Still denying!!!!!!!!!!
What a way to spread bad news for the authenticity of js626 claim.
Since there is not money to be made, the unedited video can just be held in privacy, forever.
What more proof is necessary to negate js626 claim? The 2nd rack should have ended the run, if swapping a cue ball for a break cue ball, leaving the total run at most about 14 balls. NOTHING MORE!
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Gold Member
Silver Member
Only in "professional" pool could 9 months of hard work by a team of people yeild no more than a few grand in income, a huge net loss...and at least one former player and his evil twin / alternate personality devoting their life to insisting it never happened.

Is it really any wonder some of us are simply content with a home table and a recreational hobby?

It's the only peace to be had in the game.
 

The_JV

Local_Pro
john's attempts were very backyard and amateurish. Therein lies much of the skepticism. Most simply don't care.

Hu

Can not the same be said for the infamous 526...?

I know nothing of it other than some people were corralled to sign an affidavit.

A world record (?) done before handheld video, that just happened to happen during an exhibition.

I'm assuming the only difference between Mosconi and JS was that Willie's was paid for (exhibition), so technically not "amateurish", and he didn't start out trying to reach the milestone.
 
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Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
. . . low angle video from a single camera . . .
Hu

Who knows the technical details of the video equip setup?

To review, I understand that JS actively pursued this record day after day after day. But I am also getting the idea that the video rig was rather simplistic.

I do not watch a whole bunch of pool on screens, TV or otherwise, and I am not a keen observer of the filming festivities when I attend tournaments (I will be next time though) but I seem to recall overhead shots from say a camera rigged in the lights. [I just paused and found and scanned a Dr. Dave video:
I figured this would present a representative example. Anyway, Dr. Dave uses, at least, two elevated cameras (camera on tripod on top of barstools) -- you can see one of the rigs in the video.]

Did JS release the details of the video set up? For instance, is Hu correct when he says low angle/single camera? (Not that I doubt Hu, because in my book, he and Bob are cut from the same board -- I just like to confirm like the rest of ya'll.) Things we should know might include: resolution or hi def? lighting? id of camera operators? If no videographer was used, was a "professional" consulted regarding camera placement, settings, angles, lighting? Someone here has to be familiar with "filming" set ups.

Final observation: If JS was to reveal all the particulars of how this historic, record breaking run was recorded in order to preserve it for posterity, and, hopefully, catch a few bucks in the process, it should have -0- impact on his wallet -- no condemnation to the Walmart loading dock involved.
 
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Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
Can not the same be said for the infamous 526...?

I know nothing of it other than some people were corralled to sign an affidavit.

A world record (?) done before handheld video, that just happened to happen during an exhibition.

I'm assuming the only difference between Mosconi and JS was that Willie's was paid for (exhibition), so technically not "amateurish", and he didn't start out trying to reach the milestone.

There were a few differences. John would announce that he will be attempting the record at a specific pool room during a 30 day period and then he had a rough schedule posted. But he also didn’t stick 100% to that schedule. During he month where all attempts were streamed, on a few occasions I tuned in during the posted times and he had either taken the day off or left early. There was also no opponent, which I know others think doesn’t matter.

If the run is clean, I do think it is a record, but not the same record as Mosconi. I know Cranefield claimed higher, but there is just so little information about its context, witnesses etc. I always figured the number John should be shooting for is 625 (Michael Eufemia’s high run) and he got there by one ball.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The "exhibition" part of JS's run IMO is legit. He let people know he was running balls, where he was, etc. How many people would really show up in 2019's pool world to watch a guy run straight pool day after day? 5 people in the room "watching" him was probably an average number.

Its like the 14-1 event at DCC. Usually just a few people watching, and they come and go. They don't stay for hours.

There is no way in hell he could have gotten dozens or a hundred people like I'm sure Mosconi did every exhibition.

It's not JS's fault no one cares about pool anymore. Let alone straight pool. He played, the fans simply chose to stay home.
 

DynoDan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Record, no record, foul, no foul, balls cleaned, video edited, or not, etc. etc. Really not important. I just want to see someone make 44 breaks shots without getting totally hooked!
 

xradarx

Radar is the name, billiards is the game
Silver Member
No Love Lost Here Doc Ill-Logic-AL

Radar O'Danny...loved you on MASH. Here...not so much.
No love lost on you, ill-one, matters not to me where or who you are. Just keep coming/going as you will. The more you type, the more you expose your shortcomings in 14.1.

You, especially, are one of the thoughtless posters who(m) espouses to know it all. Take your hairyman gig and stick it where the sun doesn't shine on you. It seems that y'all are about to have to accept your falsehoods that you've been over asserting for a year and a half. Hold that thought if you have brain power enough. You know so no sig necessary.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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Silver Member
Record, no record, foul, no foul, balls cleaned, video edited, or not, etc. etc. Really not important. I just want to see someone make 44 breaks shots without getting totally hooked!
I noticed only once when John had to play a slightly unusual shot after the break shot. On ball 562 (break shot was 561) he had a carom along the foot rail off a ball near the back of the rack to pocket a ball that was near the foot rail. I'd say it was about a 50% shot, so not that unreasonable to play at 14.1 when balls are all over the table.
 

Danny Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
fair enough

I'm not about distraction, I am about truth. I've spent near 40 years chasing truth professionally, and I've raised three sons and a daughter. I've seen enough lies and bullshit to last 4 lifetimes, and, I assure you I know the truth when I see it and I know how to find the truth even when people are trying to hide it. I am dead serious about oral evidence and a person's reputation -- a lot of times that's all we have -- and many people have been judicially killed based simply upon words. This is one reason why truth is so important -- one never knows when the truth and your word might be the only two things you have to defend yourself with, the only two things standing between you and many years in prison or death. I am not kidding.

I am looking at this from both sides: two ends against the middle. I have, and will, call things like I see them, damn the consequences and who gets hurt -- but only when I am fully informed. It's all I can do -- it is how I was made and raised. For me, it is the only way I can live.

I told in a previous post what I felt about Bob Jewett -- I stand by it. I also spoke honestly and said I do not know Schmidt, and asked for someone who did know him to stand up and say . . . This is where I would like to begin my inquiry.

Let me ask about the video. Is it true that JS was actively pursuing the record? Does anyone know the details about the video? Was the video a "professional" set up? Who was hired to do the video? Multiple cameras? "Special" Lighting? What are the other right questions remaining to ask about video? My point is that if I was chasing a record believing I could break it, I would spend my last nickel, sell my extra cues, and plow it all into making the best video available, especially if I had any inkling that I was going to try to make money off the video. (Right? Does this make sense?)

SO, WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE EFFORT/MONEY PUT INTO THE VIDEO AND THE RESULTING QUALITY OF THE VIDEO WHICH IS BEING MARKETED?

I also think I made it clear that the money argument was, in my limited experience, not there. I would not allow my reputation to suffer. I asked for info about how much one could maybe make on a video. I will add that I believe the video's value diminishes with every passing day. The only way that real money might be realized is if somewhere in the world 14:1 is more popular than the US. The US 14:1 audience just ain't gonna do it. JS has a better chance of cashing in by getting Tom Cruise to star in the semi-autobiographical movie "JS: His Life and Times in Chasing, Catching, and Passing Willie".

So to hell with your "distraction" -- really read and digest this, and my other posts, and you will see I am doing my best to steer a middle course and learn about this deal -- this is my first exposure. Once I know enough, then I may say what I think. But if I do tell you, it ain't gonna be no "distraction". It will be something that will not easily wash off -- one way or another -- like the chicken man says "strong as catpiss".

You sound genuine enough Mississippi, I would however focus more on verifiable unedited video than I would j.s. character or popularity contests. Your also correct that the bca video diminishes in value each day they do not release un edited footage. this also devalues Mosconi's true record - this is a bit of a travesty.
 
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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You need to provide a little more detail, Jay. Above I posted a complete list of all the break shots including the time during the run, the number of the break ball, and which side of the rack it was on, all observed from the unedited video.

Which break shot are you referring to?


ohhhhhhh.

Now you need *a little more detail* lol. Where was that need for *a little more detail* when you *repeatedly* posted unattributed rumors about Mosconi's run?

Lou Figueroa
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I noticed only once when John had to play a slightly unusual shot after the break shot. On ball 562 (break shot was 561) he had a carom along the foot rail off a ball near the back of the rack to pocket a ball that was near the foot rail. I'd say it was about a 50% shot, so not that unreasonable to play at 14.1 when balls are all over the table.

Did John do any ball polishing after run started?
 

bb9ball

Registered
You sound genuine enough Mississippi, I would however focus more on verifiable unedited video than I would j.s. character or poplarity contests. Your also correct that the bca video diminishes in value each day they do not release un edited footage. this also devalues Mosconi's true record - this is a bit of a travesty.

How does it devalue Mosconi's record? For me, his record is his world championships and no one is taking those away. His 526 ball run, as a casual one off essentially, is even more impressive, knowing the effort now of a top player to equal it. He's shown that Mosconi was truly in another class.

Unfortunately, the video is the property of John, not the BCA. To me, his doubters are the only ones really giving the video any value now.
 
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