Agree 100%. In every community that had a pool scene there was always that 'next guy', some kid that played lights-out. Those days seem to be gone forever. I live in a town, Tulsa-Ok, that used to be a hot-bed of good players and action. Now its deader than HulaHoop. People still play leagues but there are zero young players coming up. Sad but its the way it is.
What does Team USA’s Mosconi Cup future look like?
- Thread starter Brozif
- Start date
The United Stated does not have an event like the The European Championships, which requires a player to demonstrate skills in each of nine ball, ten ball, eight ball and straight pool to be successful. The European Championships also includes an international team match in which each country fields a team. I think that, over the years, the existence of the European Championships has helped make the Europeans better rounded players than the Americans. Similarly, the league system in America does not cover all these disciplines on a regular basis, which is different from the German leagues that have brought us three WPA World 9-ball champions in Ortmann, Souquet and Hohmann, each of whom has also won major international titles at straight pool.
Another factor is that Europeans often play cuesports that are more difficult than pool. Snooker, a game requiring better cueing skills than pool, has had a place in the emergence of many top European players, Mika Immonen among them. Those that started with snooker and developed some proficiency in it often have an advantage when it comes to pocketing the balls. In fact, even women's snooker has now produced three hall of famers in pool in Kelly Fisher, Allison Fisher and Karen Corr, In the UK, English 8-ball, which is played on the kind of pockets that are more associated with snooker, has also been a factor. Appleton, Shaw, Melling and Selby all began with English 8-ball and have been four of pool's straightest shooters. Russian Pyramid has also figured in producing some awfully straight shooters, as sharpshooters Gorst, Chinakhov and Stalev all began with that game.
These are some ways in which the European pool scene is, indeed, more conducive to the development of champions than the American system.
And meanwhile, what do most American 9 ball players play on when they're not playing on regulation tables? Little 7' toy tables known as "bar boxes". Great for hustling, but not so great for developing the sort of ball pocketing skills that a 6' x 12' snooker table can provide. It's like learning how to write by spending your time reading romance novels.
That's not always the players fault. Some places don't have quality 9fts and a lot of the better paying events are on the 7fts. Place i play has TEN perfect GC4's and getting people on them can be like pulling teeth.
the funding part may be so-so, but the associations are well organized and i think that's really the main thing. money isn't good, many eurotour players and national champions have regular jobs, they play for the throphies (and possible sponsorships)
The US has NO pro tour is my point.
I agree the fault lies more with the "casual" players who won't support rooms with regulation tables, rather than with the sort of players we're talking about.
My favorite local example: When Big Daddy's in Glen Burnie (MD) closed for that very reason (and also because of a lack of a liquor license), the new owners had planned to re-open with a bar and bar box tables on the main level, but with the second floor devoted to regulation Diamond tables. Unfortunately one of the original owners died suddenly, and after a delay of several years, the new room (Brews 'n' Cues) opened with nothing but bar boxes. I was told that there simply wasn't enough demand for the big tables to make installing them a worthwhile investment. Brews 'n' Cues was doing quite well before the pandemic, but for those of us living in the close-in Washington area we've got to drive to Virginia or Elkridge to find a room with tournaments played on regulation tables. As someone who grew up in an era with over 50 "real" pool rooms in the greater DC metro area, it's a pretty discouraging development.
If you're ever in Tulsa come by Magoo's. 10 GC4's, 1 ProAm Diamond and 2 old Professional used on the Camel Tour. Plenty of big boxes here.
Let's not overreact. I think Europe has the superior team- Shaw, Filler, Ouschan, and Gorst are proven world class players. Kaci isn't too far behind either.
However, Team USA did win 2 years in a row with a similar roster to what they have now. Perhaps a tweak here and there with the roster would help. For example, even though he is past his prime, Johnny Archer can still play very well and has performed great in past MC. It would be good to have another veteran presence on the roster besides SVB. Archer seems to be well respected by the younger generation of players too.
I know everybody is criticizing Deuel, but he can still play and hasn't played awful despite what some people are saying- sure, he has missed some shots or position, but his opponents have placed quite well or gotten better rolls. I think he is still a viable option in the future or perhaps allow other vets that have been given an opportunity like Roberts.
However, Team USA did win 2 years in a row with a similar roster to what they have now. Perhaps a tweak here and there with the roster would help. For example, even though he is past his prime, Johnny Archer can still play very well and has performed great in past MC. It would be good to have another veteran presence on the roster besides SVB. Archer seems to be well respected by the younger generation of players too.
I know everybody is criticizing Deuel, but he can still play and hasn't played awful despite what some people are saying- sure, he has missed some shots or position, but his opponents have placed quite well or gotten better rolls. I think he is still a viable option in the future or perhaps allow other vets that have been given an opportunity like Roberts.
It's the same crap from the same America haters every year... Then when America wins, they're silent. It gets tiresome hearing the same crap year after year. America can win just as easily as Europe can. They're short races in the most stressful setting in billiards. Momentum holds a HUGE sway.
This year it could be as simple as feeling down about Bergman and not being able to get a good rhythm.
I think people drastically misunderstand the difference between the best players. The reality is that there is very little difference between the best players and different players are best under different situations. Shane is still the best player in the world by results overall statistically (fargo), but he obviously isn't the best under the conditions at Mosconi Cup.
Even if it was conceded that Europe is better under the conditions at Mosconi cup (I'm not BTW) To try and make the argument that they're better at pool because of that is absolutely ludicrous.
Jaden
This year it could be as simple as feeling down about Bergman and not being able to get a good rhythm.
I think people drastically misunderstand the difference between the best players. The reality is that there is very little difference between the best players and different players are best under different situations. Shane is still the best player in the world by results overall statistically (fargo), but he obviously isn't the best under the conditions at Mosconi Cup.
Even if it was conceded that Europe is better under the conditions at Mosconi cup (I'm not BTW) To try and make the argument that they're better at pool because of that is absolutely ludicrous.
Jaden
There's less than 10 players in the entire US that play at this level. Europe is full of them. European pool is far better now and will only get stronger.
If one team plays better than the other team, who cares if they are from the USA, Europe, or anywhere else?
Were you betting on them?
The best team for that particular tournament won.
Were you betting on them?
The best team for that particular tournament won.
WTF???? Maybe because American pool fans want the Americans to win????? Seriously?
Are you some kind of Nationalist or a pool player?
The only time I care who wins is if I am playing.
The only exception is if I were to be wagering on someone else.
I like to see pool played at the highest level.
I do not care if the highest level player is from Pluto.
If you hear the same year after year...well could there be just a slight chance that the others might have a point?
And as Jay Helfert said many times, the US players have not a lot of international experience and this conceals that they just aren't as strong as they might think they are and don't think it is necessary to put even more work into their game.
I'm an American pool fan. This is a TEAM event and yes, i want the US to win. This isn't some standard pool event where everyone is out for themselves. What a tool.
surlytempo
Member
Yu Ram Cha was a fantastic cueist and a great player.
Wrong, there's less than 10 players in the US who are KNOWN to play at this level. Without a tour in the US, there are many players who purposefully stay under the radar so that they can make a living.
JAden
There are VERY players in this country that play world-class on a 9ft. table. I may be off by a few but not many. LOTs of bar-box run-out artists but scant few on a big table.