Billy Thorpe gone wild!

I read both Facebook posts billy made about the video. The first where he posted a picture of him and rob and chalked it up as keyboard warriors making a big deal about the things that happen when two guys gamble. And the second where he followed up a few hours later with a half assed apology that was more about how it was the alcohol’s fault more than his own.

Neither of those statements came across as a genuine apology by someone who realized they made a mistake and was truly sorry for letting the moment get the best of them. It was just Billy going through the motions so people would get off his back.

I’ve made the Justin Thomas comparison a few times throughout this thread but compare what Justin said about what he did to the statements billy made. Justin’s comments sounded a lot more sincere and he still lost Ralph Lauren as a sponsor so I’m not surprised cuetec dropped billy.
 
My sense here is that, unless Billy's contract with Cuetec had a specified code of conduct clause that was violated here, Cuetec has overreacted.

I admire Cuetec very much and know they have contributed greatly to our sport at both the amateur and pro levels over the years, Cuetec is a credit to our sport, but in what sense are they "stewards of the game"? I admire them for caring about the environment surrounding pool, and certainly, they have every right to put their sponsorship dollars where they feel they will do the most good. That said, they associated themselves with Earl for years and tolerated his frequent disrespect for the game, so they are hardly stewards of the pro game's dignity.

As I've noted before, I'm not sure this incident is really about Billy Thorpe, who made a mistake, has apologized for it and has hopefully learned from it. To me, this incident is more about the failure of America's top players, as a unit, to try to embody the very clearly stated vision and ideals of Matchroom in positioning the American pro pool product at a time when Matchroom is increasing its investment in American pool.

The danger, of course, is that Cuetec's appetite for using pro players as its representatives and Matchroom's appetite for further investment in American pool can both be diminished by this incident, but at least for now, there is no evidence that this has been the result.

Yes, Billy made a mistake, but this strikes me as too great a penalty for him to pay.
What I'm about to say I say it with literally 0 offense but it's just matter for debate.

Maybe they allowed it for a long time with Earl because of his career wins and his name was still bringing the company business...but Billy...excluding Mosconi Cup what has he accomplished that is deemed worthy for a company like Cuetec? Nothing yet as far as I know so it's easy for them to kick him to the curb since it's not like he hasn't really made a name for himself.
 
There are just far too many people that view or exhibit this type of behavior and chalk it up as what is acceptable in pool, whether amateur or professional. Which is sad because not only does it hold pool back from gaining any traction with the greater public and help prop pros up, but it's also just a terrible way to conduct yourself.

If you can watch that video and conclude that Billy did nothing wrong or think "that's just part of gambling", you need to take a long look in the mirror and evaluate what kind of person you are. Threatening to fight anyone you might have a disagreement with over a game of pool, gambling or not is just not worth it. Just be the bigger man and walk away from the situation, you'll be doing yourself and pool in general a huge favor. Because in the end, boasting about how tough you are or how much money you're gambling for when you live paycheck to paycheck just doesn't impress anyone.
 
Stu, do you think it is right to stereotype "American players" with this incident? I'm not sure I agree with this stance, though I know you have long held this point of view that American players are not as good as other international players when it comes to behavior. There are some American players who do not exhibit poor behavior. Shane is one of them, I guess, and I'm sure there are others.

I know there is one school of thought that American pool players are not as good as the rest of the world, but it's difficult for me to think that all American pro players are keeping American pool in a bad light.

I just mention this as food for thought. :)
Certainly, JAM, it's not fair to generalize here, for some of the top US players take this seriously. That said, I could write a book on the many indiscretions for which I've been present in and around American pro pool players that made American pool look bad. I also need to note that American pool players who behave badly are never called out by their fellow American pros, further evidencing that their fellow American pros just don't care enough about it.

Even restricting myself to the last few years and only events I've attended, and I'll leave the names out, we've seen: a) a top American in contention for Master of the Table at Derby City, and entering Saturday's nine ball play still undefeated, got drunk the night before and overslept his match for his first loss, and then failed to show for his next match, thereby compromising his chance at both the $16,000 first prize for the 9-ball event and the $20,000 prize for Master of the Table, b) an American refuse to shake an opponent's hand, for no discernible reason, after a Mosconi match despite being begged by coach Johan to do so, c) during the Derby City Bigfoot Ten Ball, an elite American player whose opponent was nearing the finish line uttered to his opponent "play me a long race and I'll turn you into a cab driver", and d) an elite American pro yelling at the crowd." At Steinway Billiards, I was once lashed into by an elite American player when I applauded for a shot made by his opponent that he didn't feel warranted applause. Even restricting myself to elite players, I could surely come up with many other examples. Unfortunately, in each case these infractions were by highly visible players in highly visible situations.

Some things make the present demonstrably different from the past:

1) Matchroom has increased its investment in pool and Emily Frazer's comments, reiterated in an article that appeared on AZB, that the lack of professionalism in American pool needs to be addressed if the pro pool product, over which they now have considerable control (as a result of their acquisition of both the US Open 9-ball and the WPA World 9-ball Championship) is to be optimally positioned from a marketing standpoint. Matchroom's appetite for continuing to increase its investment in pool will be greatly influenced by their perception of the attainability of that vision, and the behavior of American pros will figure in how they view things.

2) We live in the internet age. Billy's behavior would have gone unnoticed twenty five years ago. Now, matches are streamed and player behavior is more visible than ever and even when pros play unstreamed matches, they know they may be being taped on someone's phone. The internet has changed the world in which the pool player operates, and every pool player knows it.

3) As a regular Team USA member at the Mosconi, Billy Thorpe is now among the most visible American players worldwide, so his actions will have far more influence on how American pool is perceived worldwide than all but a few of his fellow American pros.

Yes, I do feel that Americans are inferior in their behavior to the Europe-based players, and this is not meant to suggest that there aren't European players that cross the line, too. I think a lot of the difference is attributable to the fact that the undeniably seedy action scene is the training ground for most top American players, and this is not so in Europe.

Unlike some others, I strongly believe that American pool can evolve past all this and don't feel that objectionable behavior is so deeply embedded in American pool culture that it's time wasted to try to improve it. Also unlike some others, I don't embrace the status quo.

Finally, it needs to be said that all I have is my own experience in making these judgements, and others may have had different experiences and can rightly see things differently. This is, undeniably, a matter of opinion, but I hope I've made mine clear.
 
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I'm actually very surprised that anyone actually thinks that Cuetec over reacted. My God, Billy was threatening to fight everyone in the joint including saying he would "kill" Rob, he was physically pushing Rob around and wrestling with him, and he was throwing around some very homophobic and non-PC insults at Rob.

Everyone in the place knew that they were being streamed. Not that that matters one bit. If you are sponsored you better be squeaky clean whether you think you are on camera or not. ANY significant Sponsor would not want Billy representing them and alienating a huge segment of their market, regardless of the code of conduct in Billy's contract.

Billy blew it plain and simple. This is NOBODY'S fault but Billy's and it certainly isn't the streamers fault!
 
My sense here is that, unless Billy's contract with Cuetec had a specified code of conduct clause that was violated here, Cuetec has overreacted.

I admire Cuetec very much and know they have contributed greatly to our sport at both the amateur and pro levels over the years, Cuetec is a credit to our sport, but in what sense are they "stewards of the game"? I admire them for caring about the environment surrounding pool, and certainly, they have every right to put their sponsorship dollars where they feel they will do the most good. That said, they associated themselves with Earl for years and tolerated his frequent disrespect for the game, so they are hardly stewards of the pro game's dignity.

As I've noted before, I'm not sure this incident is really about Billy Thorpe, who made a mistake, has apologized for it and has hopefully learned from it. To me, this incident is more about the failure of America's top players, as a unit, to try to embody the very clearly stated vision and ideals of Matchroom in positioning the American pro pool product at a time when Matchroom is increasing its investment in American pool.

The danger, of course, is that Cuetec's appetite for using pro players as its representatives and Matchroom's appetite for further investment in American pool can both be diminished by this incident, but at least for now, there is no evidence that this has been the result.

Yes, Billy made a mistake, but this strikes me as too great a penalty for him to pay.
Good point, but I'm guessing that they don't want to go down that road again. So any future sponsored players are paying for Earl's sins.
 
Quit the rack rigging and these things won’t happen as often.

Everybody seems to want to pull a scam on the other guy.

Make players rack the balls in a totally random order and give them 15 seconds to put the rack on the spot once the balls are placed in it. By random, I mean random. Not always the one in the front and the two and three on the corners. Who cares what ball is in front if the rule is you must hit the head ball first on the break?

Racking scams have killed the game.
I always thought that the one ball had to be in front. 8 and 9 ball. It has always been in the front on every rack I have ever seen. I thought that was the rule.
 
I'll bet even money that after Earl, Cuetec has a fairly draconian Code of Conduct section in their agreement
The world was a different place when Earl was front and center, what was accepted then is cause to tar and feather somebody today(if it's OK to still say that)
 
The world was a different place when Earl was front and center, what was accepted then is cause to tar and feather somebody today(if it's OK to still say that)
Except it wasn't accepted by Cuetec. I bet they have a lifetime non-disparagement clause too. Earl dragged Cuetec through the mud after they dropped him
 


Watch this video! It may give you a different perspective on where Billy is at, now that he's had time to really reflect on what took place, and what he needs to do going forward. Joey Ryan does two excellent interviews and Chad Sholders comes across as a very sensible and well spoken man, who happens to be promoting these events taking place there now.
 
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I always thought that the one ball had to be in front. 8 and 9 ball. It has always been in the front on every rack I have ever seen. I thought that was the rule.
I am proposing the rules be changed.

What difference does it make if the rule is to hit the front ball?

If the the balls are constantly moved around in the rack, it makes it harder for pattern racking.
 
The interview that just came out today with Joey and Chad was exactly what was needed right away IMO. Billy seemed to actually give a sincere apology here, Joey asked some very direct and tough questions, and I thought Chad's perspective was good. It's too bad that Billy had to come out with the half assed apologies right away, but better late than never IMO. It seems the gravity of the situation has actually sunk in with Billy and that he's taking it serious now. The initial situation was bad, no way around it. Hopefully, he'll learn from this, come back from it a better player and person.
 
Watch this video! It may give you a different perspective on where Billy is at, now that he's had time to really reflect on what took place, and what he needs to do going forward. Joey Ryan does two excellent interviews and Chad Sholders comes across as a very sensible and mature man, who happens to be promoting these events taking place there now.
On the one hand, I admire the fact that Billy is showing some contrition here, but only to his fans and to those that may have been offended by an insensitive slur. On the other hand, these are not the biggest victims of his behavioral outburst.

The real victims are a) his fellow pros worldwide , whose sport looks uncivilized here, b) his fellow American pros, whose insufficient professionalism, which has been explicitly cited by Matchroom as weakening the pro pool product worldwide, has been reinforced, c) those who produce the events in which Billy earns his living, d) his sponsors, whose investments in him suddenly look less wise, and e) American poolroom owners, whose establishments suddenly look less suitable for young new players. Chad Sholders, who spoke extremely well, similarly omitted all of these victims, restricting his attentions to how fans will deal with this incident. I think Chad handled the challenges of the moment with both discretion and wisdom.

Billy's introspection here is very admirable, and let's hope he takes that long look at himself that he seems committed to so that he can build a new foundation for the future. To use his words, he needs to reexamine his life choices and get himself on a better path. I think he'll do just that and we'll see a better Billy Thorpe in the future. I know I'll be rooting for him, and I still think he'll be one of America's best for years to come.

That said, I still feel that this video tends to confirm, rather than dispel, my view that the most visible American pool pros don't feel sufficiently accountable to their fellow pros or to their sport's image and future. Personally, I'd like to see that change.
 
actions have consequences.
Cuectec website has backlash with supporters planning to cancel endorsements of cuetec product.
see their public facebook page https://www.facebook.com/CuetecUSA/?ref=page_internal

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