Billy Thorpe gone wild!

[Get_A_Grip]

So amateur players should hold professional players to a higher standard than they do for themselves? Really? Who are the fans? Amateur players. The pro players used to be amateurs. They learned from the environment of the amateur players. But once they turn pro they are supposed to just forget that? Bullshit. The most beloved pool room in my memory was likely Chicago Billiards. Mention that place to anyone who played there and you’ll likely see a tear in their eye. The most beloved players were very unprofessional by your standards. Lisciotti? McCready? My mentor. Fats. I could go on but you get the idea. The more of a scoundrel the more we loved them. THAT is American pool. Look at other sports. McGregor is a complete jackass thug and he’s worshipped in what is likely the fastest growing sport in the world. Mayweather got the two biggest paydays in boxing history AFTER he went to jail for beating up a woman for Pete’s sake (and for the love of beer please don’t say I’m promoting domestic abuse, you know that’s not my point). Conners and McEnroe. Ray Lewis was on trial for murder. Need I go on. As Charles Barkley said about 30 years ago, these guys are not role models. And it’s stupid to act like they are or to require them to be.


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Professional players are the highest skilled representatives of the sport on an international basis. Yes, they need to act better than the average player that never leaves the local pool room. If they don't, then the entire sport could get a black eye and the country that that player represents most certainly could. This is just the way that things work.

 

[pt109]

I don't have an opinion on whether the poolroom is acceptable or unacceptable to America's youth, but I feel the culture surrounding pool greatly influences the parents who have great authority and control over which leisure-time activities are the ones in their kids may partake. If that culture is as low-life as you perceive, perhaps pool is already doomed and the next generation won't play it.

In the end, America's youths do what their parents allow and/or encourage them to do. If parents view poolrooms as safe, they'll let their kids go to the poolroom. If parents view pool as a positive experience for kids, they might encourage schools to offer pool as a recreational activity in the schools. This has already happened in some schools.

If parents view the pool scene to be as dangerous and culturally bereft as you believe it to be, they won't let their kids near the pool scene. The pool scene in which you live is not anything similar to what I've ever experienced. You speak of the poolroom parking lot --- the poolrooms I have always played in don't have parking lots. In fact, I can't even think of one that did.

Let's just say that we've had a very different experience in pool, rather than arguing about what the pool scene really looks like. It's an unproductive and ultimately unnecessary debate.

Stu....I think you may’ve liked how I ran a room. The room was in a tough area because the rent was cheap for a big room. So I let everyone know that any violence was a bannable offence. First year, one of the biggest and toughest guys slapped his opponent....I turned their table lights off, went over and told him he was barred.
He says “You’re gonna bar ME?” I told him “If I don’t, I’ll have to lock the doors.” He decided to leave....
..the whole room let out a sigh of relief.
He called me a few months later, told me he understood the rules, and would like to come back.
I told him “I’ll buy you the first coffee.”

I think that’s how it should’ve been handled in the scene we’re discussing here. If I was running that room, Billy is outa there on the first blow, much as I like him.

 

[pt109]

New York City?

Florida Men are included.

 

[Island Drive]

Yes, I think their impact is already being felt. For example, their taking over the US Open 9-ball has already resulted in much more added money. Although it was cancelled in 2020, the added money was going to nearly three times what it was prior to Matchroom taking it over. They have also jacked up the payouts at the Mosconi to 30K/15K when it used to be 20K/10K. Their recent takeover of the WPA World 9-ball will also likely result in greater added money in that event. Matchroom are already doing their part to make pro pool a more lucrative career for the American pro.

Let's not discount the efforts of others here, either. CSI has created the Diamond 10-ball and the World 10-ball Championship and AccuStats has created the International 9-ball. That's three new WPA sanctioned tournaments on American soil in three years.

Pro pool is offering greater earnings opportunities for American players due to the efforts of Matchroom and others, but these investments in pro pool should not be taken for granted. They'll stay the course just as long as they are satisfied with the sport's direction, and the behavior of the most visible pros, like Billy Thorpe, will influence how they feel about the advisability of continuing to invest in pro pool.

I think they only have 6 yrs left under Mandalay ? contract? US Open 9 ball

 

[sjm]

Stu....I think you may’ve liked how I ran a room. The room was in a tough area because the rent was cheap for a big room. So I let everyone know that any violence was a bannable offence. First year, one of the biggest and toughest guys slapped his opponent....I turned their table lights off, went over and told him he was barred.
He says “You’re gonna bar ME?” I told him “If I don’t, I’ll have to lock the doors.” He decided to leave....
..the whole room let out a sigh of relief.
He called me a few months later, told me he understood the rules, and would like to come back.
I told him “I’ll buy you the first coffee.”

I think that’s how it should’ve been handled in the scene we’re discussing here. If I was running that room, Billy is outa there on the first blow, much as I like him.

You're my kind of room owner!

Another method I saw that worked was in the early 1980's, at a pool room in Queens, NY, there was a cover charge to enter of $10, which was quite a bit back then. You were given a $10 coupon which you could put toward your table and bar tab. This scared away those who weren't there to spend money, and kept some of the undesirables away. Although the place isn't there anymore, it was around for many years.

 

[ExilePreacher]

I don't have an opinion on whether the poolroom is acceptable or unacceptable to America's youth, but I feel the culture surrounding pool greatly influences the parents who have great authority and control over which leisure-time activities are the ones in their kids may partake. If that culture is as low-life as you perceive, perhaps pool is already doomed and the next generation won't play it.

In the end, America's youths do what their parents allow and/or encourage them to do. If parents view poolrooms as safe, they'll let their kids go to the poolroom. If parents view pool as a positive experience for kids, they might encourage schools to offer pool as a recreational activity in the schools. This has already happened in some schools.

If parents view the pool scene to be as dangerous and culturally bereft as you believe it to be, they won't let their kids near the pool scene. The pool scene in which you live is not anything similar to what I've ever experienced. You speak of the poolroom parking lot --- the poolrooms I have always played in don't have parking lots. In fact, I can't even think of one that did.

Let's just say that we've had a very different experience in pool, rather than arguing about what the pool scene really looks like. It's an unproductive and ultimately unnecessary debate.

Stu,

In virtually every place I’ve been (and I travel a lot) youth aren’t allowed in pool rooms anyway. If there is alcohol and smoke forget it. Now admittedly I’ve stayed away from the Northeast for the last 15 years so I have no idea what it’s like there now. But I’ve hit the entire south and most of the west and Midwest. There are obviously differences so I’m not saying it’s monolithic. I personally have no problem with any of my five children going into the rooms I’m speaking of. I’ve got a ten year old who can probably already beat 90 plus percent of the players in America. But he can’t go to a pool room in any place I’ve lived. He plays at home. Most of the 18 plus year olds I’ve seen at pool rooms are terrible. They aren’t there to learn the game. They’re college kids who want to drink, get laid and hang out with their friends. Their interests are sex, weed, sex, booze, sex and sex. Pool is simply a prop. It’s almost irrelevant. Now that 21 is the smoking age it’s even more of a youth-less environment. In much of the country alcohol is the actual business of a pool room. Without alcohol the place closes. So if it’s youth you want how are you going to get them without doing away with the one money maker in a pool room. In some areas even no smoking equals death for a pool room (though it seems to not affect others). Until someone gets a clue as to how to make youth in pool business sensible I’m going to suggest stop worrying about how Thorpe acted. He’s young after all. You got your youth right there and when he acted like a youth people want him canceled. Young men plus alcohol equals this. It’s universally true. It’s been that way since human society began. So before folks decide to blow up what we have maybe they should find something that actually works to replace it. And frankly since when do kids give two shits what their parents want them to do? My mom hated me going to the pool room. It didn’t even slow me down. Most kids I know are the same way. In fact most end up going where their parents didn’t like simply because their parents didn’t like it.


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[Hungarian]

Thanks for the correction. I hope you got a nice dopamine boost from correcting a dumb, insular American. (Notice after you read that last sentence there was no ambiguity in your mind about what I meant by "American," because of the denigrating context.)

You should see how they act in South America...

 

[mnorwood]

In my time if a man acted like that he had to fight his way out of it and had to avoid getting stabbed or shot. This man would have been dead in many of my old pool playing spots. He has mental issues that go further than alcoholism he was on something stronger.
I would strongly caution against condemning him and throwing him out for good. I am someone who believes in forgiveness, reconciliation and 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances. Everyone gets in a tough spot and makes mistakes. Cut this man some slack unless you are perfect.

 

[Danimal]

One of the biggest consequences of Billy’s punishment, in my opinion, is that his loss of funding from Cuetec is going to hamstring him from being able to travel and play international events when the pandemic is over and things get back to normal.

Billy really furthered his development as a player when he was able to piggyback with Shane and had the opportunity to compete against the world’s elites in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. I’m sure his Cuetec sponsorship was a big reason for having that opportunity.

Not many American players had a chance to do that. Bergman could’ve benefited from international seasoning earlier in his career, but didn’t, due to his own reasons. Mike Dechaine also was at a critical juncture in his young career and could’ve taken a whole different path had he been able to secure solid sponsorship, but he also didn’t, also for his own reasons.

Moves like this are what short-circuit the progress of America’s up and comers. Billy is still young and hopefully can mature and learn from this episode. Maybe one day he will understand that what he once had was precious, and should he have another chance to be in a position like that again in the future, he should do whatever it takes not to squander it.

 

[ExilePreacher]

Professional players are the highest skilled representatives of the sport on an international basis. Yes, they need to act better than the average player that never leaves the local pool room. If they don't, then the entire sport could get a black eye and the country that that player represents most certainly could. This is just the way that things work.

You missed what I said. I asked if pros should be held to a higher standard BY AMATEURS. MY meaning is that amateurs are really the only fans, they act like shitbags more often than not, and it’s hypocritical for THEM to hold pros to a standard they themselves aren’t willing to uphold. This is so stupid. Here’s my suggestion to all you eunuchs: if you want pool to thrive here’s your best contribution—stop playing yourselves.


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[The_JV]

You missed what I said. I asked if pros should be held to a higher standard BY AMATEURS. MY meaning is that amateurs are really the only fans, they act like shitbags more often than not, and it’s hypocritical for THEM to hold pros to a standard they themselves aren’t willing to uphold. This is so stupid. Here’s my suggestion to all you eunuchs: if you want pool to thrive here’s your best contribution—stop playing yourselves.


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I enjoy your posts...

 

[ExilePreacher]

I enjoy your posts...

I’m glad someone does.


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[ExilePreacher]

I missed this comment! Lots of merit to it! But, pool players are in the middle of a tug of war!

One side is the drug dealers and mafia with large resources looking to sponsor action and help a pool player make some money

Vs.

Matchroom / mosconi cup and living off of tournament winnings exclusively! Plus, some minor endorsement deals.


The rules in the two worlds are much different!

You are either matchrooms bit$h !

Or

You are the Mafia and drug dealers bit$h!

This is the problem! At least in American pool.....

Kd

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KD thanks for airing this out. It needed to be said. Many southerners will remember a gangster named Dean Moore who used to back a number of pool players especially in the Atlanta area. Dean was the devil’s very own. He, on a number of occasions, pulled guns on players who got way ahead on his horses. I know from personal experience (I just drew my own in response). Some on this forum might remember when he slapped Paul Turner hard enough to draw blood for missing a shot “on his money”. Most of us knew better than to have him as a backer and after awhile it got to where nobody would even play anyone staked by him. But there are numerous Dean Moores all over the US and unfortunately for many players they are beholden to them for any chance at a living. Frankly I believe some more very rich honest gamblers backing more players would do more for the sport than Matchroom. For the few we have I am grateful. Such persons developing real relationships with these young guns and not only backing them but taking them under the wing, cultivating character etc. I’m sure I’ll get a lot of criticism for this but I stand by it.


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[Straightpool_99]

You missed what I said. I asked if pros should be held to a higher standard BY AMATEURS. MY meaning is that amateurs are really the only fans, they act like shitbags more often than not, and it’s hypocritical for THEM to hold pros to a standard they themselves aren’t willing to uphold. This is so stupid. Here’s my suggestion to all you eunuchs: if you want pool to thrive here’s your best contribution—stop playing yourselves.


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Well, this amateur holds everyone to the same standards:
1. Don't deal drugs in the room
2. Don't yell or shout
3. Don't fight or threaten violence
4. Don't cheat
5. Don't steal
6. Don't disturb other players
7. If you gamble, do it discreetly so you don't bring trouble for the room or the other players
8. Don't be a racist, bigoted asshole. Seriously, nobody likes it. The targets feel threatned and others cringe out of embarrasment.

How hard are these things to avoid? It's common sense to anyone with even a trace of an upbringing. Are those things hard for you? Well, luck will have it, there are fine organizations looking for just such people. Hell's angels, MS13 any gang of outlaws, really. Quite frequently they have pool tables, if not you could bring one to them. They have hookers there too. It seems perfect, no?

Personally, I like playing pool and maybe have a chat with friends in the pool room, but I realize that sort of boring behaviour isn't for everyone. If you play pool and behave, I don't give a flying f- what you do in you spare time or for a living. Don't bring your problems and crimes to the pool room, and especially don't make them my problems, and we'll get along fine. I think I can speak for a large section of pool players in this matter.

 

[ExilePreacher]

Well, this amateur holds everyone to the same standards:
1. Don't deal drugs in the room
2. Don't yell or shout
3. Don't fight or threaten violence
4. Don't cheat
5. Don't steal
6. Don't disturb other players
7. If you gamble, do it discreetly so you don't bring trouble for the room or the other players

How hard are these things to avoid? It's common sense to anyone with even a trace of an upbringing. Are those things hard for you? Well, luck will have it, there are fine organizations looking for just such people. Hell's angels, MS13 any gang of outlaws, really. Quite frequently they have pool tables, if not you could bring one to them. They have hookers there too. It seems perfect, no?

Personally, I like playing pool and maybe have a chat with friends in the pool room, but I realize that sort of boring behaviour isn't for everyone.

I never said I do any of those things. I’ve never dealt drugs. I don’t steal unless you consider hustling idiots stealing. I don’t cheat. The only violence I’m guilty of has been in self defense. Yelling and shouting? Really? Wow you really are trying to kill pool rooms. You’re butt hurt over shouting? Disturbing other players? Dude I know your type. You’re like the old geezer one pocket players who complain if you shoot too loud playing banks or nine ball (most of whom can’t shoot for shit and are just jealous of those who can though I’m not saying this is true of you for the record). Well I don’t accept your standards. I remember Chicago Billiards and other rooms like it that were disgusting shitholes but were the funnest places ever frequented by mortal men. I’d take Chicago back over 1000 of what you’re advocating. The days when pool thrived in my lifetime there was no SUBTLETY about gambling. Guys would bark and bark and then make a game. A huge crowd would form and it was loud as hell sometimes. And the pool room owners loved it because all those railbirds were buying beer by the bucket. Nobody gave a shit about being subtle when they stacked the bills over the light. I bet you’d piss on Scotty Townsend’s grave if you had a chance. No sane person wants violence but no pool player with two intact testicles wants a boring ass gentlemen’s club where all you hear is balls lightly clicking either. You sir are the reason pool is dying. You’ve sucked the life right out of it.


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[The_JV]

Well, this amateur holds everyone to the same standards:
1. Don't deal drugs in the room
2. Don't yell or shout
3. Don't fight or threaten violence
4. Don't cheat
5. Don't steal
6. Don't disturb other players
7. If you gamble, do it discreetly so you don't bring trouble for the room or the other players
8. Don't be a racist, bigoted asshole. Seriously, nobody likes it. The targets feel threatned and others cringe out of embarrasment.

Personally, I like playing pool and maybe have a chat with friends in the pool room, but I realize that sort of boring behaviour isn't for everyone.

I had a bunch of good 'manners' items I was going to add, but I didn't want to come off like I was mocking your list. They're all what should happen in a room. IMO it's the responsibility of every player to help enforce them, and lead by example.

 

[The_JV]

Guys would bark and bark and then make a game. A huge crowd would form and it was loud as hell sometimes. And the pool room owners loved it because all those railbirds were buying beer by the bucket. Nobody gave a shit about being subtle when they stacked the bills over the light.

I will admit, most of the fun at the weekly league and tournaments is all the jawing afterward when people are drumming up action. There doesn't need to be ridiculous volume, but the bantering is entertaining as hell...lol

 

[ExilePreacher]

I will admit, most of the fun at the weekly league and tournaments is all the jawing afterward when people are drumming up action. There doesn't need to be ridiculous volume, but the bantering is entertaining as hell...lol

Thanks. Look I was harsh with Straight Pool 99 and probably read him wrong. But I’m so tired of our society not allowing men to be men. And I’ve had to deal with so many who have the same mentality who have a f—king aneurysm every time a player says hi to someone these old geezers are playing with. “We’ve got a game here, keep it down!” Go f__k your mom in the @$$ is my usual response. I actually had one yell at me for “banking too loud” next to him. I’m not kidding. I was warming up my stroke for a money game in banks and this douche bag had a fit. I said a lot worse to him than Billy did and I’m proud of it. Billy wasn’t being racist. Young guys say that word all the time. They listen to rap music and it has become normal. Saez isn’t black. And he’s not gay. F—- is a common insult. I’ve heard it hundreds of times in pool rooms since I was a teen. People just need to let men be men. If they’d stepped outside and beat the shit out of each other I’d say the same. A good ass whipping builds character. As long as you’re willing to either go to jail or flee the scene you ought to be allowed. But no we gotta have men being eunuchs now. Hell I bet most of these guys would condemn me for making my sons put on boxing gloves when they get into a tussle. It settles it every time though. And frankly it has resulted in them rarely getting into it anymore. Ok I’m ranting but I stand by my contention: the problem is the castration of the American male.


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[The_JV]

Thanks.

To be completely honest and forth coming... I don't agree with nearly everything I've seen you post in this thread...lol. Yes, I do get a kick out of watching players, or taking part in "jawing" at each other. That said, this doesn't include racial slurs, threats of violence, or promises of sexual activies with their mothers. I'm your typical "anti-gun" Canadian, that says 'please' and 'thank you' waaay too often. I hold doors for people and correct their manners if they aren't pleasant in return. However, I don't hug trees, and do not wear socks with sandles.

Obviously I wasn't in your situation, but my response to that old geezer would have been an apology, and an explaination.

It is unfortunate that the skin of the world has gotten so thin, but in this world where you'll get sued for sneezing in the wrong direction, companies need to protect themselves. Signing up to represent a company makes you their billboard. Now I'm sure if you were driving down the highway and saw a small business billboard calling you a F_____!, and threatening to kick your ass if you don't buy their S___, you might get a momentary chuckle, but I highly doubt you'd make your go to place for shopping.

 

[ExilePreacher]

To be completely honest and forth coming... I don't agree with nearly everything I've seen you post in this thread...lol. Yes, I do get a kick out of watching players, or taking part in "jawing" at each other. That said, this doesn't include racial slurs, threats of violence, or promises of sexual activies with their mothers. I'm your typical "anti-gun" Canadian, that says 'please' and 'thank you' waaay too often. I hold doors for people and correct their manners if they aren't pleasant in return. However, I don't hug trees, and do not wear socks with sandles.

Obviously I wasn't in your situation, but my response to that old geezer would have been an apology, and an explaination.

It is unfortunate that the skin of the world has gotten so thin, but in this world where you'll get sued for sneezing in the wrong direction, companies need to protect themselves. Signing up to represent a company makes you their billboard. Now I'm sure if you were driving down the highway and saw a small business billboard calling you a F_____!, and threatening to kick your ass if you don't buy their S___, you might get a momentary chuckle, but I highly doubt you'd make your go to place for shopping.

You’d be surprised, I’d probably rush there immediately. My favorite restaurant years ago was Rude Dog’s where the hostess and waitresses would cuss you out. They’d take your order by asking what the hell you want to eat?

I’m a Southern American middle aged male. I make no apologies. If you’re an asshole I’m a bigger one. Nice guys end up dead with their asses bleeding as a parting prize.

You Canadians are in my opinion very neutered to begin with. I doubt a Southern Bell would consider you males frankly. However when I was in Alberta years ago folks were very nice.

Lastly I have enough guns to supply a small army so we will just have to part ways there. There’s nothing at all wrong with shooting people as long as they earn it. You can’t do that without guns so no dice.


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