It is messes like this that occur when you try to turn surfing into a team sport.
Bias with Your Own Team's Playing Order? (long)
- Thread starter Get_A_Grip
- Start date
I never thought about surfing as a sport analogous to pool but it works really, really well.
It really should come down to flips when there's a payout at the end of the season for placement. Of course the team matters, but the captain potentially bumping one team member in money for another team member to go up in money is lame. Just take a break from that team, your life will improve
Also I'm sure your league dues are less than the payout, so maybe just find some cheap social games and live a more relaxed life
Also I'm sure your league dues are less than the payout, so maybe just find some cheap social games and live a more relaxed life
I didn't read all of it but this is what I see.
1st be a captain. Don't flip coins, pick each match up intentionally. Your the captain make a decision, people will respect that more.
2nd when you start the season decide if your team is there to win or have fun.
If you want to win YOU decide every match up every night to give you a chance to win. No wishy washy coin flippin b.s.
If your there for fun hell, flip coins for every match.
1st be a captain. Don't flip coins, pick each match up intentionally. Your the captain make a decision, people will respect that more.
2nd when you start the season decide if your team is there to win or have fun.
If you want to win YOU decide every match up every night to give you a chance to win. No wishy washy coin flippin b.s.
If your there for fun hell, flip coins for every match.
Yep!
But it’s also why you have a team captain who, if he takes the job seriously, looks after the team’s best interest before that of an individual.
Given everything in the original scenario, if I had been the captain, I would’ve played the guy that I perceived to be the better player against their stud too. By his own admission, the OP and his equally rated teammate were both heavy favorites to win all 3 against the weaker, number 2 player on the other team. Therefore the best strategy to maximize points for the team wold be to play our better player against their better player because it was more likely to gain the team more points overall.
The only way I would have played it differently would have been if this were the very last match of the season, we were in first place and could not possibly be caught. At that point with the team victory guaranteed, I would turn my attention to doing anything I could within the rules to help individuals in their own final standings.
Bingo... Someone despite the whatever goofy average system that is used (a tie in this case) is playing better than the other on that given day. Nut up and make a decision.
I gather that he's suggesting his captain's prior strategy throughout the season caused that to be.
Separate from your post...some here (understandably) didn't read the entire OP. He's not the Captain.
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I read enough to to understand he is not the captain. My point was their team has no real leadership and this causes dissension in the ranks.
Right, I got that. Others missed that point.
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The main problem here is that you have a bunch of amatuers playing for money. Well greed probably takes first place.
I used to play in a money league and was a captain that decided to put together a dream team and as a result we came in first twice in a row. However there was a bunch of drama that ensued at the end of both sessions that caused me to disband the team and quit money league entirely..
The first session i had a few players argue that they played more matches than other players consequently paying more dues over the session and therefore believed they should be paid more....this after we all agreed at the begining if the session to split whatever we won evenly amongst the entire team..
At the start of the second session we all agreed to split the weekly fee evenly amongst the team whether you played or not...ensuring every one had paid the same amount at the end of the session.
Now the above caused a headache in itself trying to get the fee the following week if some one didnt show. Being the captain i paid the missing players share each week and it was a pain in the azz keeping track of who owed me and having to hear they didnt have it that week .
Then if that was not bad enough ...when we came in first again our best player decided he should get more than any one else because he won more matches and without him we would not have came in first. That really got me. So i threw him a 20.00 out if my pile and said the team is through .
Apa has its problems but i never face as much drama like i did in money leagues.
I used to play in a money league and was a captain that decided to put together a dream team and as a result we came in first twice in a row. However there was a bunch of drama that ensued at the end of both sessions that caused me to disband the team and quit money league entirely..
The first session i had a few players argue that they played more matches than other players consequently paying more dues over the session and therefore believed they should be paid more....this after we all agreed at the begining if the session to split whatever we won evenly amongst the entire team..
At the start of the second session we all agreed to split the weekly fee evenly amongst the team whether you played or not...ensuring every one had paid the same amount at the end of the session.
Now the above caused a headache in itself trying to get the fee the following week if some one didnt show. Being the captain i paid the missing players share each week and it was a pain in the azz keeping track of who owed me and having to hear they didnt have it that week .
Then if that was not bad enough ...when we came in first again our best player decided he should get more than any one else because he won more matches and without him we would not have came in first. That really got me. So i threw him a 20.00 out if my pile and said the team is through .
Apa has its problems but i never face as much drama like i did in money leagues.
I would say the OP is correct on all counts. Yes, his teammates did him wrong. The captain lied, he got robbed. Yes also to being anal and petty. I have never understood why that league format is ever used. Round robin, everybody plays everybody.
I didn't "duck" a good player at all. I played the strongest player on every team the entire season. But when two teammates are tied for second in the league as an individual, I 100% believe that the captain can't use any bias and basically hand second place to one person over another. In fact, I believe that anyone that WON'T use a fair coin flip is definitely on the shady side and is up to no good.
We play a simple win-loss scoring for the team scoring (add all of the players games won). But...for the individual winning percentage (player average) if a player gets a table run or an 8-ball break, they get one extra point (game) added to their individual total games won. So the top player in the league many times has over a 1.0 (100%) winning percentage.This^^^^
I am curious on your player ranking system. I play in what sounds like a somewhat similar league and our personal averages are based on ball count. A 17 being flawless, 13 being very strong, (10 for the win and 1 point for each opponent's ball left standing).
My current team fields 5 players from a pool of 7, (post covid) and we have legitimately the top 4 players in the league...lol. Before anyone cries foul on such a top heavy team. The handicap we give up due to our individual averages is massive, so it's no cake walk for us.
Where things start to separate from the OP's league is that we play everyone on the opposing team once. So there's no advantage to playing order in terms of personal gains. That said, the problem we'd have is the reverse to the OP's. All of us would want the head of the top player on the opposing team.
I know it's always nice in tournaments to land on the other side of the bracket from the top players in hopes of an easier title. However winning a tournament doesn't mean you're the best player on that day. If you want to be declared the best player in the league, you need to beat the best. This is one of the reasons I stopped playing APA. They have this 'MVP' rankings to provide an individual goal for stronger players. However after the first go round, all the captains would protect their strong players from a loss to me. Frustrating for someone that wants to compete.
To the OP, if you feel like you got screwed then leave the team. Personally as long as the team climate is fine otherwise, I'd stay on and enjoy the bragging rights over the coward
To me, once a team league adds extra money, trophies, and the ability to play in a separate "all-star" tournament at the end of the year to win even MORE money based on the INDIVIDUAL standings, the captain MUST be fair to each individual, especially when it's at the end of the season with 2 weeks left to play.
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Just a fine point of clarification. I didn't ask to play the weaker player. I simply asked to let the flip of a coin decide who plays who. This is what that same guy and I did the last time we were tied. I lost that flip and played the stronger player without hesitation. Because it was fair.
Here's the thing. To me the principle and fairness of the process is more important than the money. But I do want to take first place in the league as an individual and as a personal goal. I'm doing very well financially in fact, so I don't care about the money.
What I haven't mentioned was the end result at the end of the league. After I found out that the captain directly made up crap and lied about how the standings are done to justify overruling the coin flip, I decided to stop playing for the last 2 weeks. I told the team that I will forfeit my team winnings and that they can split my winnings up between the team, as compensation for any inconvenience.
The league op said that he couldn't completely remove me from the standings. But not playing the last 2 weeks allowed the most ironic thing of all of occur. The last 2 weeks our team played the two weakest teams in the league, which allowed everyone on our team to basically win all 3 games. The teammate that wouldn't accept the coin flip passed me and took second in the league, and the captain passed me and took third in the league. The exact result that I think that they wanted. A different friend had told me that the captain had been complaining to him that he's doing great in the league, but he can't pass his own teammates. Thus, the incentive to make things harder on me. In the end, the team came out smelling like a rose.
That's the thing. Our team had a lot of fun the entire year, up until what I consider some shady and biased decisions that were made by the captain. What blows my mind is that NOBODY on our team and nobody in this thread has any problem with the teammate that refused to accept the results of the coin flip and cried to the captain to overrule it. IMO, that guy was the real problem that started all of this.