A reality check on aiming systems of all kinds

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Next claim is Efren and Parica went to see an aiming guru in PA.
Oh, wait, they already claimed that and the aiming guru did not refute it .
When Efren and Parica came here , they shocked onlookers at Hard Times when they were nailing spot shots on the Big Bertha table at Hard Times . But, they needed aiming lessons.
Next claim was Busti uses chicken to egg system.
Busti has told my brother's best friend himself whom he stayed with in Connecticut ( along with Efren ) he used to hide the English ( Pinoys call it Pektus ) from his opponents when he was growing up . He actually got used to stroking the ball on the left side for practice strokes but never does it when he's shooting from the back. Hell, he used to shoot from the back as a spot to his opponents while Efren used to shoot opposite handed or one handed as a spot.
Some people really want to push that magic pill .
Next, Lassiter and Mosconi used a magic system.
 
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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Next claim is Efren and Parica went to see an aiming guru in PA.
Oh, wait, they already claimed that and the aiming guru did not refute it .
When Efren and Parica came here , they shocked onlookers at Hard Times when they were nailing spot shots on the Big Bertha table at Hard Times . But, they needed aiming lessons.
Next claim was Busti uses chicken to egg system.
Busti has told my brother's best friend himself whom he stayed with in Connecticut ( along with Efren ) he used to hide the English ( Pinoys call it Pektus ) from his opponents when he was growing up . He actually got used to stroking the ball on the left side for practice strokes but never does it when he's shooting from the back. Hell, he used to shoot from the back as a spot to his opponents while Efren used to shoot opposite handed or one handed as a spot.
Some people really want to push that magic pill .
Next, Lassiter and Mosconi used a magic system.
You hate life don't you? Like your joy is non-existent.

Maybe if most people grew up poor in pool rooms and had to hustle to survive then they would have the incentive to learn by brute force and observation.

Here is a fact for you.... If one person figures out how to do something one way doesn't mean that no one else can't figure out how to do it in another way.

800 speed players are generally going to be more accurate than any regulars at most pool rooms. They can all do amazing things such as spot shots on tight pockets at a much higher level than most around them.

Maybe Efren doesn't have any special way to aim but I can attest to this fact; when he was in my shop spending an evening with him I made a point of asking him, on camera, about how he aims. His answer was that he would only reveal it when he stopped playing. So who knows why he said that but he clearly didn't want to talk about it at that moment.

I personally wouldn't be surprised if he said he just sees it. Imo when a player reaches his level there are going to be very few shots where that player doesn't see it immediately. It's kind of an all roads lead to Rome situation. At that point their fundamentals and their aiming are solid.

Everyone else is not there and they will do whatever they want to their enjoyment including exploring the various tools and techniques out there which they find to be interesting.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Yeah but the guys at Cern aren't spamming AZB about splitting atoms. And I have zero issues pocketing with contact geometry.
Neither is anyone at azb spamming azb. Topics are brought up in the aiming forum and the knocker trolls are the spammers.

Good for you that you have figured out a way to aim in pool that works for you. No one is forcing you to learn any other method. No one is forcing you to open any thread.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Oh, btw, Efren said learn to control the cue ball and pocketing will just follow.
Oddly enough, Efren was the carom king of the Philippines before he became even greater in pocket billiards .
He was so good in straight rail, they banned him from the San Miguel Karambola King tournament after he won it back to back .
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
John, since you're a member of Stan's CTE Pro One site, you might want to take a look in there today.
There is a slow motion video taken from behind Efren of him definitely sliding his bridge hand into an offset position and then pivoting to the shot line. He is better at disguising it than Bustamante. That secret group of Filipinos is way ahead of most American players.
(Validating what is written on page 83 of the "Center Pocket Music" book.)
It could be encouraging to some of the guys you try to help, who may be getting barraged with negativity from the skeptics and knockers. I can just about imagine the heat they're getting from those who are uninformed and filled with hatred.

Efren and Busty are closet CTErs, lmao.

Lou Figueroa
whew, stop it
yer killin' me
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Oh, btw, Efren said learn to control the cue ball and pocketing will just follow.
Oddly enough, Efren was the carom king of the Philippines before he became even greater in pocket billiards .
He was so good in straight rail, they banned him from the San Miguel Karambola King tournament after he won it back to back .
I am sure Efren had billiards and pool experiences that 99% of players in America will never have.

And yes when we did an experiment with Efren coaching he would point to where the cute ball should go and expect that the shooter knew how to get it there. When he saw someone addressing the cue ball incorrectly he would correct them.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Lol, logically if a person adopts a new method and they immediately have better results then it stands to reason that a strong correlation exists that the new method is a factor in that improvement.
Predictable dodge. That doesn't make it "more objective" - or even "better" - than other systems.

pj
chgo
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I am sure Efren had billiards and pool experiences that 99% of players in America will never have.

And yes when we did an experiment with Efren coaching he would point to where the cute ball should go and expect that the shooter knew how to get it there. When he saw someone addressing the cue ball incorrectly he would correct them.
Far be it from me to correct anything taught by the great Efren.

Here is how I think about position: While standing up I think about pocketing the ball, dead center in the pocket (usually). Then I think about what is possible from there as far as rail targets are concerned, then I think about speed. I imagine the whole shot playing out very vividly in my mind, speed, tip position in extreme detail and the whole shot playing out. This all happens before I step in. After I step in, I'm not allowed to change any of this.

I step in and go down and now all the cueball stuff is forgotten. The only thing I focus on now is to accurately hit the part of the cueball I want and to pocket the object ball. The speed has allready been determined in my mind beforehand, and now cannot be changed. Especialy important since I hit most shots with sidespin, unless there is a special reason not to. I use pullback length for speed control, but other methods are possible ofc. The same is true for safeties. I figure, we are pool players, not carom players, we're experts at controlling the direction of the object ball. We should play to our strenghts. A perfect object ball path usually ensures the cueball does what it's supposed to, and if not, can in itself often get a good safety. I was shit at carom for a while, because I kept focusing on the cueball. Focusing only on the object ball when down ower the ball helped tremendously, and also the fact that I put more emphasis on the object ball path during the visualization when standing up.

We imagine the elaborate thing happening while standing up and when we go down, we focus only on hitting the object ball the way we want, the cueball is taken care of allready by tip position and should not be in our minds at all. Thinking about the path of the cueball while down can often ruin the shot, and is a break of the routine. Tip position, aim, that's it when down.
 
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straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Neither is anyone at azb spamming azb. Topics are brought up in the aiming forum and the knocker trolls are the spammers.

Good for you that you have figured out a way to aim in pool that works for you. No one is forcing you to learn any other method. No one is forcing you to open any thread.
Mommy chops? Pretty lame. You musta ate too much.
I went to pool rooms anyway mom...
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh, btw, Efren said learn to control the cue ball and pocketing will just follow.
Oddly enough, Efren was the carom king of the Philippines before he became even greater in pocket billiards .
He was so good in straight rail, they banned him from the San Miguel Karambola King tournament after he won it back to back .
One equals the other. I remember in the 90s I was explaining basic cut billiards on the 9 ball to some guy and my words were something like "look where the object ball is going and the billiard will be natural." Got the idea across anyway. lol
 

Brookeland Bill

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This posts epiotomizes the expression "pearls for swine" and the thread will undoubtedly develop in the same fashion as anything going through a porcines digestive system, but the attempt should never the less be applauded.

Many players can't make a straight in shot under pressure, and if they do, they often have unwanted spin on the cueball. You're telling me their problem is aiming? Nah...When you can make a straight in shot consistently with the cueball stopping perfectly, the cueball following or coming back perfectly straight ,then we can talk about how their problem is aiming.

It’s too mechanical and does not take into consideration all of the external elements that can come into play such as the equipment and the environment.
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When Efren and Parica came here , they shocked onlookers at Hard Times when they were nailing spot shots on the Big Bertha table at Hard Times .
I'd like to know if they were both lining up low left. Can't trust you as you can't admit Busti ever did. Spot shot shooting is often a gimmick shot and a practice shot. Usually done with some kind of objective aim point, it's no surprise that they could do this. We just had an average amateur testify to making 46 in a row i believe. And just to be clear, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they were using a form of CTE to do it. Pocket size wouldn't matter as it is a center pocket aiming system. And we all know that there strokes wouldn't limit them from doing it .
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Pocket size wouldn't matter as it is a center pocket aiming system.
Every system is a "center pocket" system. The claim that CTE is more so than others is false advertising.

The only really unique thing about CTE is its insistence on advertising falsely despite being called on it repeatedly.

pj
chgo
 

cookie man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Every system is a "center pocket" system. The claim that CTE is more so than others is false advertising.

The only really unique thing about CTE is its insistence on advertising falsely despite being called on it repeatedly.

pj
chgo
First off. i didn't claim CTE was a more center pocket system then others.
Second, there has been no false advertising about CTE. You and others, that can't even perform CTE. that have made one claim or the other have all been disproved on here and in Stan's book. There is really nothing left for you guys. The complete system is out in the open. Let's face it PJ, you've never gotten it out of your head that CTE is not a fractional system, and it's not a fractional system. Every single claim you make about it is false. Just because you say them a thousand times doesn't make them true. Learn CTE or just keep making false claims like you have for over 20 years.
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Another shot like the one Joey described? Straight in? How the hell are you going to make cut shots if you can't make straight in shots?

You can move into position all you like and pre shot routine your opponent to boredom but if your arm motion is jinky where the rubber hits the road you will not consistently hit the object ball where you intend to and you will either make the ball within the pocket's margin of error or miss.

This is another thing we need to assess on every successful shot. Did we hit that pocket where we intended to or was it "good enough" this time but not the next.
You didn't respond to what I wrote. You set up a "no-aim" shot, essentially, then said "there's no aim, just mechanics". Now setup a more ambiguously aimed shot and tell the player "it's just mechanics".
 
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