Diamond arrived update

The_JV said:
If you found a colour match blem on the black bezel of your new $10k TV, would you be ok with touching it up with a sharpie...?
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Personally yeah I'm ok with it. :) I used to worry a lot about stuff like that, to an almost obsessive amount, but I decided if it doesn't effect function I don't care. Life's too short for me to spend my limited focus on stuff that won't matter once you're in the ground in a few decades. Anxiety sucks, it's better to focus and worry on the things that actually make a difference in your life.

Note that I don't fault people for caring about this stuff or wanting stuff to be perfect. There's nothing wrong with it but I found it was negatively effecting my life so now personally IDGAF on cosmetics as long as they aren't related to function.

How would you feel if you took your wife's brand new motorcycle in for the first oil change and full inspection service (you know they re-check torques etc.) and half way home you heard an odd noise, looked down and the oil fill plug was no longer in the top of the engine? :mad: I was pretty pissed about that, but it was something that effected function. Did I post on the local motorcycle forum about it? Nope, I got ahold of them and they sent a trailer to pick it up, put new oil in it and a new oil filler cap. I noticed the noise immediately so there was no engine damage. Do I fault anyone for posting on a forum? Not really, but I can see both sides. It's not up to the customer's expectations yet mass produced products can and will have issues at times. The difference between a good product and a bad one is how well the company or dealer will take care of you. :) Posting on a forum and "going viral" can hurt a good company's image, even if they make it 100% right with the customer. Why put someone on blast without a chance to make it right unless you aren't able to control your emotions and wait a few days? If they didn't fix it, sure, lambaste their asses and let everyone know.

I guess what I'm rambling on about is, nothing in life is perfect, especially if you're talking a mass produced product. If you've ever been in inspection or QA, you know this is true. Should Diamond have touched it up? Probably. Was it inspected on a Friday by someone who just got hired and had 2 weeks training? Maybe. Was the inspector doing 3 other people's jobs that day, or dicking around on their phone? Maybe. It's a customer's right to demand perfection, but there's no such thing. Give the company or dealer a chance to do right, delay the drama posting until they become a bad company/dealer. :)
 
This discussion reminds me about my discussion with a buddy over AR-15s where he was upset about some machining marks and coating inconsistencies on his Colt rifle. I was just like, does everything fit properly? He was like "Yes". So I go, does it shoot every time you pull the trigger? Again, he was like "Yes". So then I ask "Does it shoot as accurate as your other AR15s?" to which he replies "Yeah, shoots really well." Confused and thinking I missed something, I finally asked "So what's the damn problem?" and I can never forget his response "It doesn't look as nice as my some of my other high end guns." I remember giving him my best "Are you stupid?!?" look and saying "You bought a mass production instrument of war, not a damn piece of art!" I still honestly don't think we ended that discussion seeing eye-to-eye.

One thing I learned as I aged is that different people have different priorities. Maybe I just have low standards though, seeing as to how I own a Presidential Cape Town (got it for $900 with accessories).
 
chenjy9 said:
This discussion reminds me about my discussion with a buddy over AR-15s where he was upset about some machining marks and coating inconsistencies on his Colt rifle. I was just like, does everything fit properly? He was like "Yes". So I go, does it shoot every time you pull the trigger? Again, he was like "Yes". So then I ask "Does it shoot as accurate as your other AR15s?" to which he replies "Yeah, shoots really well." Confused and thinking I missed something, I finally asked "So what's the damn problem?" and I can never forget his response "It doesn't look as nice as my some of my other high end guns." I remember giving him my best "Are you stupid?!?" look and saying "You bought a mass production instrument of war, not a damn piece of art!" I still honestly don't think we ended that discussion seeing eye-to-eye.

One thing I learned as I aged is that different people have different priorities. Maybe I just have low standards though, seeing as to how I own a Presidential Cape Town (got it for $900 with accessories).
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You have a point but so does your buddy. He didn't buy the cheapest POS out there, he bought a Colt and you pay a premium for the pony on the side of those. In return you have higher expectations. I would expect fit and function from a Colt. I bought several over and under shotguns. Those too I expected beauty and function. When one kept firing the second barrel with the first and the dealer's smith couldn't make it behave they gave me another one, that one had prettier wood anyway.

Hu
 
Let's take this to a direction that I'm sure will change some responses......

Let's say you ordered a high end custom cue from a highly sought after cue maker.
It showed up with an inlay that showed signs of a defect. Upon further inspection, you find a dent. How would you feel about that?
 
buckshotshoey said:
Let's take this to a direction that I'm sure will change some responses......

Let's say you ordered a high end custom cue from a highly sought after cue maker.
It showed up with an inlay that showed signs of a defect. Upon further inspection, you find a dent. How would you feel about that?
Click to expand...

Depends on how the cue plays. It’s a tool not a statue. If I like how it shoots, that’s infinitely more important to me than a small defect in an inlay. Then again, all my cues have been super plain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ShootingArts said:
You have a point but so does your buddy. He didn't buy the cheapest POS out there, he bought a Colt and you pay a premium for the pony on the side of those. In return you have higher expectations. I would expect fit and function from a Colt. I bought several over and under shotguns. Those too I expected beauty and function. When one kept firing the second barrel with the first and the dealer's smith couldn't make it behave they gave me another one, that one had prettier wood anyway.

Hu
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Keep in mind, Diamond is selling functionality, not art work, like cues are functionality, not art work. Some people get the two confused.
 
ShootingArts said:
You have a point but so does your buddy. He didn't buy the cheapest POS out there, he bought a Colt and you pay a premium for the pony on the side of those. In return you have higher expectations. I would expect fit and function from a Colt. I bought several over and under shotguns. Those too I expected beauty and function. When one kept firing the second barrel with the first and the dealer's smith couldn't make it behave they gave me another one, that one had prettier wood anyway.

Hu
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For sure. At the end of the day, it comes down to a difference in priorities and expectations. He views high end rifles in the same way that some might view fashion items or art while my perspective comes from one of reliability. Basically, he was expecting for it to be a safe queen while my expectations are that that every Colt part is in spec, rugged, and simply guaranteed to work. Both of us paid premium prices, but our thought process originated from very much different starting points. Neither of us were actually wrong, though there is no doubt that in each other's eyes we were wrong. Funny how opinions work sometimes. That said, I also do have safe queen guns (Dan Wesson 1911 and Mega Arms AR15) but for me the difference was that I looked for brands that were known for maintaining immaculate finishes and super precise tolerances.
 
chenjy9 said:
This discussion reminds me about my discussion with a buddy over AR-15s where he was upset about some machining marks and coating inconsistencies on his Colt rifle. I was just like, does everything fit properly? He was like "Yes". So I go, does it shoot every time you pull the trigger? Again, he was like "Yes". So then I ask "Does it shoot as accurate as your other AR15s?" to which he replies "Yeah, shoots really well." Confused and thinking I missed something, I finally asked "So what's the damn problem?" and I can never forget his response "It doesn't look as nice as my some of my other high end guns." I remember giving him my best "Are you stupid?!?" look and saying "You bought a mass production instrument of war, not a damn piece of art!" I still honestly don't think we ended that discussion seeing eye-to-eye.

One thing I learned as I aged is that different people have different priorities. Maybe I just have low standards though, seeing as to how I own a Presidential Cape Town (got it for $900 with accessories).
Click to expand...
Let me be clear on what my issues are. I have a piece of cardboard duct taped inside of one of my gully's to make my left corner functionable. The inside is absolutely filthy and since this is a pro am my brand new aramith tournament balls visit Iraq levels of dust to the ball return which in turn ends up on my brand new simonis cloth. I have particles over my table and every time I try to clean it off it's an exercise in futility. I don't have the light I ordered the one that hanging is banged up and oh ya its not level I noticed that last night. My $1,600 chairs have exposed staples where my cues go and wasn't finished from the factory with the proper felt material. On top of that there is the surface stuff that needs to be buffed so I know what is scratched and what isn't. I paid a lot of money for this table way more than I probably should have but I was buying the best and that was my experience expectation. To fix this they have to crack my brand new slate which really pisses me off. It should have been right the first time.
 
jimmyco said:
Diamond does compensate for speed on the smaller tables. Different cushions. Black Diamond on the 7' and 8', Artemis on the big tables.

I've seen dozens of threads on "How can I make my Brunswick play like a Diamond?" How many the other way around?
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There are tons of us who would much prefer the cushion rebound of a GC being transferred to the rest of the Diamond table. But we get blasted by you know who when we post this. It gets old after a while.
 
Nyquil said:
Let me be clear on what my issues are. I have a piece of cardboard duct taped inside of one of my gully's to make my left corner functionable. The inside is absolutely filthy and since this is a pro am my brand new aramith tournament balls visit Iraq levels of dust to the ball return which in turn ends up on my brand new simonis cloth. I have particles over my table and every time I try to clean it off it's an exercise in futility. I don't have the light I ordered the one that hanging is banged up and oh ya its not level I noticed that last night. My $1,600 chairs have exposed staples where my cues go and wasn't finished from the factory with the proper felt material. On top of that there is the surface stuff that needs to be buffed so I know what is scratched and what isn't. I paid a lot of money for this table way more than I probably should have but I was buying the best and that was my experience expectation. To fix this they have to crack my brand new slate which really pisses me off. It should have been right the first time.
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Seems pretty clear to me that Diamond or the Diamond dealer can only make this right by replacing the entire table. If they are going to keep your money, letting you use this table until the new one is delivered and installed to your satisfaction.
 
iusedtoberich said:
There are tons of us who would much prefer the cushion rebound of a GC being transferred to the rest of the Diamond table. But we get blasted by you know who when we post this. It gets old after a while.
Click to expand...
Sure, there are a ton of you that don't like the challenge of playing on a Diamond. That was not the question.
How many Diamond owners would want their tables to play like a Brunswick? Very few if any, I reckon.
 
jimmyco said:
Sure, there are a ton of you that don't like the challenge of playing on a Diamond. That was not the question.
How many Diamond owners would want their tables to play like a Brunswick? Very few if any, I reckon.
Click to expand...
Like Jay Halfert ? If you get a red label and have Super Speed installed , is that wanting it to play like a GC ?
 
The_JV said:
If you found a colour match blem on the black bezel of your new $10k TV, would you be ok with touching it up with a sharpie...?
Click to expand...

Considering the extreme odds faced with panel lottery, if the panel itself had near zero DSE and banding along with smooth gradient colors (and even backlighting if dealing with FALD), I would absolutely keep the TV and touch it up if it bothered me that much, though I would probably go with the route of cutting out a matte black film to put on the bezel instead of using a sharpie. Returning the TV and hoping it's replacement has a comparable panel would be significantly less desirable to me.
 
Nyquil said:
Let me be clear on what my issues are. I have a piece of cardboard duct taped inside of one of my gully's to make my left corner functionable. The inside is absolutely filthy and since this is a pro am my brand new aramith tournament balls visit Iraq levels of dust to the ball return which in turn ends up on my brand new simonis cloth. I have particles over my table and every time I try to clean it off it's an exercise in futility. I don't have the light I ordered the one that hanging is banged up and oh ya its not level I noticed that last night. My $1,600 chairs have exposed staples where my cues go and wasn't finished from the factory with the proper felt material. On top of that there is the surface stuff that needs to be buffed so I know what is scratched and what isn't. I paid a lot of money for this table way more than I probably should have but I was buying the best and that was my experience expectation. To fix this they have to crack my brand new slate which really pisses me off. It should have been right the first time.
Click to expand...

To be clear, I was not speaking to your post specifically but rather the differences in perspectives shown in this thread. Your table and chairs clearly had flaws/defects, which is very unfortunate and you definitely have my sympathy. A shitty experience is shitty, there is no pretending otherwise. Now whether this is the fault of Diamond, the reseller, the warehouse where the table was stored, the delivery / installation service, I have no idea as I am not someone involved with any of those logistics. It does sound like the reseller at least is taking steps to take care of you, which is very encouraging.
 
chenjy9 said:
Considering the extreme odds faced with panel lottery, if the panel itself had near zero DSE and banding along with smooth gradient colors (and even backlighting if dealing with FALD), I would absolutely keep the TV and touch it up if it bothered me that much, though I would probably go with the route of cutting out a matte black film to put on the bezel instead of using a sharpie. Returning the TV and hoping it's replacement has a comparable panel would be significantly less desirable to me.
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And how would that work, you can't feel it, snag it with your fingernails, even a sharpe is going to leave a black color on the finish of the rails, and no matter what you think you can put around the sites, to hide what is barely even visible, you'll be able to see that before you notice anything about the site!!
 
Unless you are 100% confident in your local dealer, order directly from Diamond or Heath Manning.

I spent 2 years going back and forth between a GC and a Diamond during our home build-out. Once I decided on a Diamond, I called the factory about some question. Whoever answered the phone gave me a “sorta” answer, and suggested I deal with their local Houston dealer, who was highly recommended.

I spent some time with a few esoteric online searches and discovered that the company was not so highly recommended by a few locals who had less than a stellar experience.

We finally got back in the house, and when COVID hit in early 2020, I reached out to Heath Manning with questions. This guy is great and knows his stuff. The factory was reopening May 4th, and he put the order in that day. Still had to wait for Labor Day weekend for delivery.

But, they loaded the table at the factory, had factory mechanics drive it out (with other deliveries, obviously) and those mechanics unloaded it and set up everything. Perfect.

Mike was the Master Mechanic. (Trent already complimented him in another thread.). Mike said Heath basically WAS Customer Service for Diamond. I noticed Mike perfectly implemented the glue down cloth installation that Glenn described here a few years back. He said he’d had conversations with Glenn regarding table and cloth installation.

Get your table direct unless you 100% trust local.
 
realkingcobra said:
And how would that work, you can't feel it, snag it with your fingernails, even a sharpe is going to leave a black color on the finish of the rails, and no matter what you think you can put around the sites, to hide what is barely even visible, you'll be able to see that before you notice anything about the site!!
Click to expand...

Analogies are analogies because direct comparisons across completely different goods are impossible. If we are referring solely to pool tables, I bought mine used so it has nicks here and there. Never bothered me one bit because the table is still lovely and more importantly, the frame cushions, and slate pieces are all solid and in good working over. I had it re-covered with Simonis 860 and couldn't be happier. If the table plays proper, I am satisfied. Like I said though, maybe I just have low standards.
 
chenjy9 said:
Depends on how the cue plays. It’s a tool not a statue. If I like how it shoots, that’s infinitely more important to me than a small defect in an inlay. Then again, all my cues have been super plain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I'm having a bit of a hard time believing what you just said. I'm not talking about a production cue here. For my hypothetical example, I'm talking about a $2000 or $3,000 custom cue, which by the way, are alnost always works of art. I dont think anyone would expect or accept less then perfect.
 
Korsakoff said:
Unless you are 100% confident in your local dealer, order directly from Diamond or Heath Manning.

I spent 2 years going back and forth between a GC and a Diamond during our home build-out. Once I decided on a Diamond, I called the factory about some question. Whoever answered the phone gave me a “sorta” answer, and suggested I deal with their local Houston dealer, who was highly recommended.

I spent some time with a few esoteric online searches and discovered that the company was not so highly recommended by a few locals who had less than a stellar experience.

We finally got back in the house, and when COVID hit in early 2020, I reached out to Heath Manning with questions. This guy is great and knows his stuff. The factory was reopening May 4th, and he put the order in that day. Still had to wait for Labor Day weekend for delivery.

But, they loaded the table at the factory, had factory mechanics drive it out (with other deliveries, obviously) and those mechanics unloaded it and set up everything. Perfect.

Mike was the Master Mechanic. (Trent already complimented him in another thread.). Mike said Heath basically WAS Customer Service for Diamond. I noticed Mike perfectly implemented the glue down cloth installation that Glenn described here a few years back. He said he’d had conversations with Glenn regarding table and cloth installation.

Get your table direct unless you 100% trust local.
Click to expand...
Mike was a great student, learned real fast, and stays focused when he's setting up table's. I recommend his employment at Diamond when he came looking for a job, I knew he'd work out great.
 
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