Conceal carry permits for barboxes may just be the bar fight deterrent we need.
Fight at pool bar in Dallas
- Thread starter gxman
- Start date
Works for me…. From The High Road forum
We seemed to have a number of recent threads and stories with a somewhat common theme. Someone gets slighted or bothered in public by another person and they feel the need to do or say something about it. From something overt like cutting in line at a Black Friday sale to just walking behind someone. Even playing music at a gas station. In each instance the person who got bothered or uncomfortable either felt like doing and saying something, or actually went ahead in did it. In one case, telling some kids to turn their music down ended in a shooting.
I think some of us are losing sight of the value of just walking away. There are two aspects to this. The tactical advisability of confrontation, and whether it's "right".
The tactical standpoint should be pretty straightforward. When you confront someone, you are introducing a possible flash point to an already unstable situation. You never know if those kids in the car, that obnoxious guy at the bar, those guys on the trail are violent felons, off duty cops, drug addicts, or just normal people who might act out when scared. Confrontation breeds confrontations. The "alpha male" aspect of someone's mind might act up and that guy you're just telling to back off cause he almost spilled your drink might just feel the need to punch you in the face because he's drunk and needs to feel like he's in charge. In the case of the line cutting last week, the line cutter actually did turn around and punch a guy. And then a weapon was produced and what could have been 2 minutes of a man just feeling pissed off turned into an entire self-defense legal ordeal. Over feeling offended.
The bottom line is, unless someone is directly threatening you, another person, or your property, just swallowing your anger and indignation and walking away is the best option in probably 99%+ cases.
The second aspect is whether or not it's "right". As in, do you actually have the right to ask something, or worse, try to "tell them". In some cases yes, in other cases no. Don't forget, you DO NOT have the right not to be offended. When you leave your property and enter the public, you become equal to every other citizen out there. Your desires, feelings, likes and dislikes, sense of honor, etc all are exactly equal to someone else's. If they make you uncomfortable...so what. They have the right to do so. If some stranger is doing something completely legal, non-threatening, and non-destructive; I'm sorry but you just don't really have the right to approach them and try to push your standard of behavior on them. You feel music should be listened to at one volume, they feel it should be at another. Who's right? In public, you both are. As long as it's legal. If I walk somewhere and you feel I'm "too close" or being behind you makes your comfortable...sorry but I have the right to walk where I want in public. Just like you do.
What can you do when someone does something in public you just don't like? Maybe he's standing too close, or listening to loud music, or he just looks funny. How about go somewhere else? That's usually the best bet. If you can't or don't want to do that, your only other option is to ask. And that means explicitly putting it in the form of a yes/no question. Meaning they do indeed have the right to tell you "no".
"Hey buddy, could you be so kind as to stand a little bit farther away?"
"Sure man" OR "No, I don't feel like it"
He has the the right to do what he wants in public. You may not like it, but he still does. Part of being an adult in public means learning to accept that there are times when other people enjoying their rights might make you feel uncomfortable. Just as your rights might make them uncomfortable. Your standard of behavior, your idea of "this is how people should act" can NOT be enforced on others.
If you try to "tell" them, it can end far far worse.
"Hey buddy, back off. You're standing too close"
"Make me"
Now what? How exactly do you enforce that? Push him? Punch him? Put your hand on your gun and say "you know, doing something like that is a good way to get a gun pulled on you"
Congratulations, you've now just lost all moral high ground and committed a crime. Now in addition to earning some very appropriate legal consequences for assaulting another citizen because "you felt uncomfortable", you now have the very real possibility he might respond to your force with force of his own. Now what?
How about instead of all of that, you pick up your drink, or get in your car, or sling your backpack...and just walk away. Your feelings are not worth getting hurt or hurting someone else over. Ever.
We seemed to have a number of recent threads and stories with a somewhat common theme. Someone gets slighted or bothered in public by another person and they feel the need to do or say something about it. From something overt like cutting in line at a Black Friday sale to just walking behind someone. Even playing music at a gas station. In each instance the person who got bothered or uncomfortable either felt like doing and saying something, or actually went ahead in did it. In one case, telling some kids to turn their music down ended in a shooting.
I think some of us are losing sight of the value of just walking away. There are two aspects to this. The tactical advisability of confrontation, and whether it's "right".
The tactical standpoint should be pretty straightforward. When you confront someone, you are introducing a possible flash point to an already unstable situation. You never know if those kids in the car, that obnoxious guy at the bar, those guys on the trail are violent felons, off duty cops, drug addicts, or just normal people who might act out when scared. Confrontation breeds confrontations. The "alpha male" aspect of someone's mind might act up and that guy you're just telling to back off cause he almost spilled your drink might just feel the need to punch you in the face because he's drunk and needs to feel like he's in charge. In the case of the line cutting last week, the line cutter actually did turn around and punch a guy. And then a weapon was produced and what could have been 2 minutes of a man just feeling pissed off turned into an entire self-defense legal ordeal. Over feeling offended.
The bottom line is, unless someone is directly threatening you, another person, or your property, just swallowing your anger and indignation and walking away is the best option in probably 99%+ cases.
The second aspect is whether or not it's "right". As in, do you actually have the right to ask something, or worse, try to "tell them". In some cases yes, in other cases no. Don't forget, you DO NOT have the right not to be offended. When you leave your property and enter the public, you become equal to every other citizen out there. Your desires, feelings, likes and dislikes, sense of honor, etc all are exactly equal to someone else's. If they make you uncomfortable...so what. They have the right to do so. If some stranger is doing something completely legal, non-threatening, and non-destructive; I'm sorry but you just don't really have the right to approach them and try to push your standard of behavior on them. You feel music should be listened to at one volume, they feel it should be at another. Who's right? In public, you both are. As long as it's legal. If I walk somewhere and you feel I'm "too close" or being behind you makes your comfortable...sorry but I have the right to walk where I want in public. Just like you do.
What can you do when someone does something in public you just don't like? Maybe he's standing too close, or listening to loud music, or he just looks funny. How about go somewhere else? That's usually the best bet. If you can't or don't want to do that, your only other option is to ask. And that means explicitly putting it in the form of a yes/no question. Meaning they do indeed have the right to tell you "no".
"Hey buddy, could you be so kind as to stand a little bit farther away?"
"Sure man" OR "No, I don't feel like it"
He has the the right to do what he wants in public. You may not like it, but he still does. Part of being an adult in public means learning to accept that there are times when other people enjoying their rights might make you feel uncomfortable. Just as your rights might make them uncomfortable. Your standard of behavior, your idea of "this is how people should act" can NOT be enforced on others.
If you try to "tell" them, it can end far far worse.
"Hey buddy, back off. You're standing too close"
"Make me"
Now what? How exactly do you enforce that? Push him? Punch him? Put your hand on your gun and say "you know, doing something like that is a good way to get a gun pulled on you"
Congratulations, you've now just lost all moral high ground and committed a crime. Now in addition to earning some very appropriate legal consequences for assaulting another citizen because "you felt uncomfortable", you now have the very real possibility he might respond to your force with force of his own. Now what?
How about instead of all of that, you pick up your drink, or get in your car, or sling your backpack...and just walk away. Your feelings are not worth getting hurt or hurting someone else over. Ever.
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This is straight from the bbc.com article - “The New York Times looked at 37 cities across the US with data for the first three months of this year, and overall there has been an an 18% increase in murders compared with the same time period in 2020.” It looks like murders and other violent crime may actually be up year over year 2020 to 2021.Not substantiated with the facts::
US crime: Is America seeing a surge in violence?
Law and order promises to be a key talking point in the US midterms. We look at the numbers.www.bbc.com
In the old westerns, one would see bar fights and everyone in the bar was wearing guns, but none were ever used.
Bill ,would this have been your first match by any chance?
That was ridiculous! I get the strong impression that these people's total knowledge of fighting consists of what they see on TV or in movies. Granted we are shy a lot of information but still obvious that a small punk that didn't know how to fight came out even against a handful of people, four, five, six, I'm not gonna suffer through that video again to get an accurate head count. If I owned the place, the guy in red shirt would have earned a permanent ban and arrest. Hitting an employee would earn that, any employee. Hitting a female employee he would have fell down the stairs a few times before the police got there.
This bit of silliness reminds me of a fight in a biker bar. Two good friends that were damned near joined at the hip are at the corner of the bar yah-yahing at each other about fighting. After 45 minutes one finally decides he is ready to fight. Not wanting to lose his .38 or have an accidental discharge he reaches and draws the gun out to sit it on the bar. He neglected to mention to J what his intentions were vis-à-vis the gun so J slapped him upside the head with the draft beer mug he had his hand around on the bar. Glass and gore flew and after a swing or two the pair of them are rolling around on the floor! The bar's owner was in love or lust with one of them a third her age so she grabs a house cue and starts swinging it. Back to her heels and a full swing, she has the cue almost at the tip! The buttcap is only missing me an inch or two so noninterference seems the better part of valor, besides which I am fighting laughing! First time I saw a fight when both guys were struggling to get on bottom!
A dozen or so guys in the place and maybe half that many women. Every other guy in the place besides me comes out with a gun, half the girls too! I jerk my shirt up and snatch out, well I snatch out a handful of belly hair. Only dude in the whole damned place that wasn't carrying. I felt kinda unmanly. Naturally with this many morons and guns there is an accidental discharge or two, hitting nobody and nothing! Never found any bullet holes, don't know where they went. Meantime, the whole place is fighting. Guys not involved in the original fight but now there are six or eight fights going, a few girls going at it too! Think of the barroom brawls in old westerns, only time I had seen so many spontaneous fights. We managed to get half the people outside and the doors locked, no idea how it was decided who was who. I was at the door just pitching out whatever came my way! Pissed off my girlfriend but it was an honest mistake. A little later she tossed me the door key and calm was restored.
A good time was had by all, only the guy hit with the beer mug suffered any real damage. Needed a few stitches, I don't remember if he ever got them or not. I do remember that the girls fighting could have whipped the whole bar in the video if they couldn't fight better than the ones that got involved.
Hu
This bit of silliness reminds me of a fight in a biker bar. Two good friends that were damned near joined at the hip are at the corner of the bar yah-yahing at each other about fighting. After 45 minutes one finally decides he is ready to fight. Not wanting to lose his .38 or have an accidental discharge he reaches and draws the gun out to sit it on the bar. He neglected to mention to J what his intentions were vis-à-vis the gun so J slapped him upside the head with the draft beer mug he had his hand around on the bar. Glass and gore flew and after a swing or two the pair of them are rolling around on the floor! The bar's owner was in love or lust with one of them a third her age so she grabs a house cue and starts swinging it. Back to her heels and a full swing, she has the cue almost at the tip! The buttcap is only missing me an inch or two so noninterference seems the better part of valor, besides which I am fighting laughing! First time I saw a fight when both guys were struggling to get on bottom!
A dozen or so guys in the place and maybe half that many women. Every other guy in the place besides me comes out with a gun, half the girls too! I jerk my shirt up and snatch out, well I snatch out a handful of belly hair. Only dude in the whole damned place that wasn't carrying. I felt kinda unmanly. Naturally with this many morons and guns there is an accidental discharge or two, hitting nobody and nothing! Never found any bullet holes, don't know where they went. Meantime, the whole place is fighting. Guys not involved in the original fight but now there are six or eight fights going, a few girls going at it too! Think of the barroom brawls in old westerns, only time I had seen so many spontaneous fights. We managed to get half the people outside and the doors locked, no idea how it was decided who was who. I was at the door just pitching out whatever came my way! Pissed off my girlfriend but it was an honest mistake. A little later she tossed me the door key and calm was restored.
A good time was had by all, only the guy hit with the beer mug suffered any real damage. Needed a few stitches, I don't remember if he ever got them or not. I do remember that the girls fighting could have whipped the whole bar in the video if they couldn't fight better than the ones that got involved.
Hu
The thing is, while violence may be on the rise, in the not so distant past it was way higher than today, even after accounting for the rise.
Yessir............then he tossed in my visor and glasses being an issue.
Then I clamed up, won then next 5 of 6 games and moved on.
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In the not too distant past, I could get gas for a dollar a gallon. However, gas is starting to rise again and I don’t see it dropping in the foreseeable future. The point is this - WHY is crime rising? Until we get to the root cause, nothing will be done about it. And if it’s politically incorrect to do something about it, I guarantee nothing will be done about rising crime rates. Please, no one raise their eyebrow, you know what I’m talking about.
I bought gas at $0.17/gal when I was a sr. in High School
$1.xx when Clinton left office
Crime is rising because of tension within our society, causing both sides to come to the conclusion that the other side is not worthy of {listening to, living, getting benefits, being free,..war on drugs,,,abortion,,,immigration,,,homeless,,,military conflicts,,,this,,,that,,,the other thing too...}. It has gotten to the point the 80th%-ile person just puts their heads down and quits listening and watching and most importantly, quits caring. Cell phones enable this means of relief.
How do we solve this:: by voting both sides out of office--3-4 votes in a row. Anyone who holds office needs to leave--even the perceived "good ones".
BINGO!!!!! This is the answer!!
Mostly because a thug named George Floyd got killed by a police officer. That pretty much started the "defund the police" movement with BLM and Antifa. Because of that, police are handcuffed, and criminals and street thugs can do what they want, knowing the liberal systems in which they operate will let them off. It's not too hard to understand. It's not politically correct to crack down on thugs.
Before we get too carried away, it’s important to remember that crime in the US today is about half of what it was at its peak in the 1980s. There’s been a little uptick in the past year, but there have been lots of little upticks and downturns, and this recent one may or may not look like anything in the long run.
I'm far from a bad-ass, but I don't think I could lose a fight to red shirt if I was asleep when it started.
PracticeChampion
Well-known member
Some drunk mofo's LoL, nothing wrong with a good ole fist fight. Dude in red doing the very old shake hands/swing trick and worse the other guy falling for it twice is priceless!!! Lmao
I suspect any dude not drinking could have stopped all that in about 5 seconds
I suspect any dude not drinking could have stopped all that in about 5 seconds
Apparently he couldn't get it there.
if you want to quote newspaper you should get one that writes non fiction. The NY TIMES is mostly fiction
I long for the good old days. In Gloucester, Mass when I grew up there were people you just did not mess with. Joe Orange was one of em. He was a 'lumper' ie stevedore. He spent many years in the freezer compartment of large container ships unloading frozen boxes of fish that were 80 - 100 lbs apiece. Gloucester was well known to have the fastest lumpers anywhere. After 20 years or so Joe worked his way to being a numer one. A number one stood on the deck and directed the crane operator to raise and lower the load in and out of the hold.
One day after work Joe was sitting at the bar in a local place called Joe's Dugout. Literally dug out of the ground it had no windows and one pool table. It was for lumpers and fishermen and great place to get drunk with friends and relax. Once in a while there were fights between locals but no one dared mess with Joe and Joe liked it that way. Well some idiot from out of town got stupid like the guy in the thread with the red shirt. He was tussling with another guy and got tossed into Joe's back. Joe turned and told him to watch himself. Just like the idiot in the video above, this numbskull told Joe to fuck off. Now Joe spun his seat around and squared up and asked, "what did you say?" The guy repeated himself which got a look and a "you better shut your mouth boy" from Joe. Then the moron made the stupidest move all day. He walked in on Joe and grabbed him by the shirt. While sitting on his stool and before this guy knew what was happening Joe delivered a straight right hand into the kids face. KaPow, the kid was blasted into unconsciousness before he hit the floor next to the pool table. Unperturbed Joe spun his seat around and grabbed his beer and went on like nothing had happened. IT WAS EPIC JOE ORANGE!!
About five minutes go by and he starts to come around, his eyes are spinning and we are all looking at him. He finally stands up all shaky and leaning on the pool table and the guy he was messing with walks over and says, "Welcome to Gloucester, by the way you just met Joe Orange.
He staggered up the three steps that led to the street and we never saw him again...
Problem solved, lesson learned!
One day after work Joe was sitting at the bar in a local place called Joe's Dugout. Literally dug out of the ground it had no windows and one pool table. It was for lumpers and fishermen and great place to get drunk with friends and relax. Once in a while there were fights between locals but no one dared mess with Joe and Joe liked it that way. Well some idiot from out of town got stupid like the guy in the thread with the red shirt. He was tussling with another guy and got tossed into Joe's back. Joe turned and told him to watch himself. Just like the idiot in the video above, this numbskull told Joe to fuck off. Now Joe spun his seat around and squared up and asked, "what did you say?" The guy repeated himself which got a look and a "you better shut your mouth boy" from Joe. Then the moron made the stupidest move all day. He walked in on Joe and grabbed him by the shirt. While sitting on his stool and before this guy knew what was happening Joe delivered a straight right hand into the kids face. KaPow, the kid was blasted into unconsciousness before he hit the floor next to the pool table. Unperturbed Joe spun his seat around and grabbed his beer and went on like nothing had happened. IT WAS EPIC JOE ORANGE!!
About five minutes go by and he starts to come around, his eyes are spinning and we are all looking at him. He finally stands up all shaky and leaning on the pool table and the guy he was messing with walks over and says, "Welcome to Gloucester, by the way you just met Joe Orange.
He staggered up the three steps that led to the street and we never saw him again...
Problem solved, lesson learned!
I was quoting a bbc.com article, but you are correct about the NYT. If you depend on the mainstream media, you may or may not get accurate information.
