How low can deflection go and still be a useable shaft?

Bob Jewett said:
For quite a while I was playing with a cue without a ferrule (except for the fiber pad on the tip). When the "new fangled" low-squirt cues came along, they hit the ball pretty much like my favorite shaft so I had almost no adjustment to make to use them.
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Thank you. I remember us talking about this long ago, and quickly did my own similar shaft. Later modified to have a hollow end like Patrick's. Which diameter Revo did you choose?
 
336Robin said:
That is the one thing I haven't done is a regular shaft with no ferrule. If I did it I am guessing I would go long pro taper and no ferrule with a 12.80/12.75 shaft.

Bob what kind of taper and thickness of shaft were your favorite shafts set up like this?
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Pro taper and under 11mm.
 
dr_dave said:
Less CB deflection isn't necessarily better, especially for firm-speed shots (e.g., a break cue), where you want the natural pivot length of the shaft (infinite for a zero-CB-deflection shaft) well matched to your bridge length. For more info, see:

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About that pivot point, isn't that only usable if you use back-hand english? Me, I just line up the tip with spin without any pivoting or shifting of my hands and shoot. When I did tests with this, and have had other players just shot with spin straight, I got maybe a few mm of deflection or less with a Revo and no real LD shaft hit more than 3/4 of a ball out from center. The Lucasi Flexpoint was probably the highest deflecting "LD" shaft I tried but that was maybe 2" off center, it hit around 3/4 - 1/8 of the ball at the end rail when shooting with the cueball at the spot.
 
hang-the-9 said:
About that pivot point, isn't that only usable if you use back-hand english? Me, I just line up the tip with spin without any pivoting or shifting of my hands and shoot. When I did tests with this, and have had other players just shot with spin straight, I got maybe a few mm of deflection or less with a Revo and no real LD shaft hit more than 3/4 of a ball out from center. The Lucasi Flexpoint was probably the highest deflecting "LD" shaft I tried but that was maybe 2" off center, it hit around 3/4 - 1/8 of the ball at the end rail when shooting with the cueball at the spot.
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I play with Jacoby Hybrids and depending on the shot I sometimes use back hand english for my spin technique.
Now if it makes regular maple shafts play easier imagine what it will do with an LD shaft?
 
dr_dave said:
Less CB deflection isn't necessarily better, especially for firm-speed shots (e.g., a break cue), where you want the natural pivot length of the shaft well matched to your bridge length. For more info, see:

Click to expand...
hang-the-9 said:
About that pivot point, isn't that only usable if you use back-hand english?
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No. It can also automatically correct for stroke swoop or stroking errors (assuming the initial center-ball aim is accurate) for shots of certain distances and speeds. For more information see the natural pivot length resource page, especially the second section.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
Bob Callahan said:
A shaft made from aerogel would probably be very close to the mythical "zero deflection" shaft that's sometimes advertised, but I don't think any of us would use one. Looking at Dr. Dave Alciatore's video on squirt, the lowest "deflection" shaft he tested is a Revo, and it seems to cause about 3 inches of squirt. There are a lot of smart people on this forum...is this the lowest it can go, or is it possible to design a useful shaft that creates a two inches of squirt? One inch?

First, let's stave off some of the comments that usually happen in threads like this one:

"It's the Indian, not the arrow". If Native Americans had had modern compound bows during the European invasion, the outcome might have been a little different. It's the Indian and the arrow.

"All shafts deflect". True, but let's compare our addiction to another activity that requires accuracy: Olympic shooting. Don't see anybody goin' for the gold with Papa's ol' rimfire 22, do you....
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Just FYI, the Revo isn’t even the lowest deflection Predator shaft lol. Z3 lower. Older OB2+ lower, probably a few others lower. My turned down (way down) 314-3 is WAY lower deflection than my 12.4 Revo.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
dr_dave said:
No. It can also automatically correct for stroke swoop or stroking errors (assuming the initial center-ball aim is accurate) for shots of certain distances and speeds. For more information see the natural pivot length resource page, especially the second section.

Enjoy,
Dave
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Yes but that is also for shots done not with a straight stroke, which is different than what I was doing with my impromptu tests, I shot as parallel to the side as I could, so just shifted the cue an inch to the left or right, then shot the cueball to see how full it hit the object ball.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Fast forward to about 2018 and I've played with a low squirt stick for over thirty years and was playing with a Revo at the time. A manufacturer showed me a prototype stick they were working on and again the stick seemed to have negative squirt. I don't know how low it was, but I assume it was still positive. Whether I could get used to playing with it I don't know.
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I want one.
 
Are you saying the spin on the ball overcame the squirt? My God what was that?


Bob Jewett said:
For quite a while I was playing with a cue without a ferrule (except for the fiber pad on the tip). When the "new fangled" low-squirt cues came along, they hit the ball pretty much like my favorite shaft so I had almost no adjustment to make to use them.
Click to expand...
 
Bob Callahan said:
A shaft made from aerogel would probably be very close to the mythical "zero deflection" shaft that's sometimes advertised, but I don't think any of us would use one. Looking at Dr. Dave Alciatore's video on squirt, the lowest "deflection" shaft he tested is a Revo, and it seems to cause about 3 inches of squirt. There are a lot of smart people on this forum...is this the lowest it can go, or is it possible to design a useful shaft that creates a two inches of squirt? One inch?

First, let's stave off some of the comments that usually happen in threads like this one:

"It's the Indian, not the arrow". If Native Americans had had modern compound bows during the European invasion, the outcome might have been a little different. It's the Indian and the arrow.

"All shafts deflect". True, but let's compare our addiction to another activity that requires accuracy: Olympic shooting. Don't see anybody goin' for the gold with Papa's ol' rimfire 22, do you....
Click to expand...
I use the joss regular shaft and nothing else. my feeling is if you stay
with the same shaft and they are consistent which joss is then
my tiny brain adjusts to it and all that technical crap does not matter.
Just my opinion. By the way, i love joss cues
 
People can also reduce the deflection on their shots by shooting softer and having a longer follow through and thus trusting their stroke. I know it's abstract bur trusting your shaft goes a long way.
 
I have Go-Custom 10mm snooker shaft I use for playing pool and it is definitely the lowest deflection shaft I have used and still moves the cues ball with ease.
 
RandyinHawaii said:
I have Go-Custom 10mm snooker shaft I use for playing pool and it is definitely the lowest deflection shaft I have used and still moves the cues ball with ease.
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I saw a guy once who was a carpenter so he turned his shaft down a bit thinner in the upper portion toward the joint and the whole
shaft flexed. He played really well with it.
 
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