Team USA will not have Justin Bergman at Mosconi Cup

[iusedtoberich]

If pre event testing is still a thing come Mosconi time, I think MC will need 8 players per team. 3 being backups incase of positives.

As far as the announcement, hindsight is 2020. If I was Emily, I would have asked Bergman to make a statement saying something to the effect of: “Due to the current and foreseeable future International travel difficulties, I am withdrawing from consideration as a Mosconi Cup team candidate. I wish both Team USA and Team European the best of luck.”

Then corona would be the scapegoat, Emily wouldn’t look bad, and no one would second guess Bergman’s statement.

 

[skip100]

Fargo ratings would suggest that Rodney Morris, Earl Strickland, and Johnny Archer are among the top 11 US players - and thus solidly in contention for a Mosconi spot given that Dechaine and Bergman are out. I find this hard to believe.

 

[BeiberLvr]

I'd like to see Hunter on the team at least once.


Shane
Sky
Billy
Hunter
Tony or Josh

 

[decent dennis]

Forgive me if you're just having some fun here, but .....

The last time we had a "throwback team" was in 2013, when Matchroom selected Team USA. SVB, Dennis Hatch, Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland and Rodney Morris, deemed the US All-Stars by Matchroom, lost 11-2 in a dispiriting massacre by Team Europe and an embarrassing scenario in which there was no need for Day 4 of the competition. I recall scrambling to find a flight home one day earlier than planned.

Next time we field a "throwback team," I doubt I'll watch. Participation needs to remain on merit if all the tournaments leading up to the Mosconi are to be as meaningful as possible. In the words of UCLA Coach John Wooden, "if you give me a choice between talent and experience, I'll take talent every time."

Or in the words of coach John Mckay on his tampa bay bucs "what about their execution, "i'm all for it".

 

[jasonlaus]

Every year it seems there are posters who boldly declare the US has no chance, Europe could field 5 different teams better than the US, the US needs Alex, the US needs the entire Filipino nation, the US needs Thanos to snap before the Mosconi Cup, and on and on.

MOST of those same posters said the same thing before the US won in 2018, and most doubled down and were more sure the Americans would get torched in 2019.

Even Jayson Shaw stated while commentating a match not long ago, there is very little difference between the top Americans and the rest of the world. He even went on to say that he knows of several junior players (one that plays out of his poolroom) that are on track to play at world class speed sooner rather than later.

Certainly the Euros are stronger "on paper", but to say the US doesn't have a chance or needs a miracle, is simply hyperbole for the sake of hyperbole. Luckily for the US side, the match must be won on the cloth and not by a comparison of fargo rates

I'll take Europe, how much you wanna bet?

 

[sjm]

Even Jayson Shaw stated while commentating a match not long ago, there is very little difference between the top Americans and the rest of the world. He even went on to say that he knows of several junior players (one that plays out of his poolroom) that are on track to play at world class speed sooner rather than later.

Certainly the Euros are stronger "on paper", but to say the US doesn't have a chance or needs a miracle, is simply hyperbole for the sake of hyperbole. Luckily for the US side, the match must be won on the cloth and not by a comparison of fargo rates

Jayson is either being diplomatic, delusional, or just plain mistaken here. My guess is diplomatic. The difference on the table has been every bit as great as Fargo Rates (which places just 4 American players in the world top 75) suggest it should be. Europe has won 9 of the last 11 Mosconi Cups, and American players have fallen off the map in the biggest events.

Here's a sampling of the medalists in the biggest events played in the past couple of years.

2019 Derby City 9-ball: Woodward (gold), Aranas (silver), Gorst (bronze)
2019 US Open: Filler (gold), Wu (silver), DeLuna (tied for bronze) and YL Chang (tied for bronze)
2019 World Pool Masters: Alcaide (gold), Kazakis (silver), Kaci (tied for bronze), Woodward (tied for bronze)
2019 World Cup of Pool: Austria (gold), Philippines (silver), Netherlands (tied for bronze), Spain (tied for bronze)
2019 Internaitonal 9-ball: Shaw (gold), Lechner (silver), Filler (bronze)
2019 World 9-ball: Gorst (gold), JL Chang (silver), Liu Haitao (bronze)
2019 World 10-ball: Ko Ping Chung (gold), Filler (silver), Ko Pin-Yi (bronze)
2020 Derby City 9-ball: Cortezza (gold), Filler (silver), Orcullo (tied for bronze), Aranas (tied for bronze)
2021 Predator PCL: Ouschan (gold), Alcaide (silver), Melling (tied for bronze), Kaci (tied for bronze)
2021 World Cup of Pool: Germany (gold), England (silver), Estonia (tied for bronze), Slovakia (tied for bronze)
2021 World Pool Masters: Kazakis, Van Boening (silver), Grabe (tied for bronze), Filler (tied for bronze)
2021 World Pool Championship: Ouschan (gold), Al-Shaheen (silver), Szolnocki (tied for bronze), Alciade (tied for bronze)

American players are way behind Europe, combining for just one gold, one silver and one bronze in what I believe to have been the twelve most significant events played in either Europe or the US since the beginning of 2019. By comparison, Europe has nine golds, six silvers, and thirteen bronzes.

No, the difference between Europe and America right now is huge, and Europeans perform almost as well on US soil as on European soil. The worst thing that could ever happen to the American contingent would be for them to be deluded about their current standing in the world of major international pool events. They need to own the gap between them and Europe and do something about it.

 

[SlateMan]

They need to own the gap between them and Europe and do something about it.

Well, they thought they had a plan last year....

 

[jokrswylde]

Well, they thought they had a plan last year....
View attachment 608600

I would rather they bring back the Johan!

 

[jay helfert]

Forgive me if you're just having some fun here, but .....

The last time we had a "throwback team" was in 2013, when Matchroom selected Team USA. SVB, Dennis Hatch, Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland and Rodney Morris, deemed the US All-Stars by Matchroom, lost 11-2 in a dispiriting massacre by Team Europe and an embarrassing scenario in which there was no need for Day 4 of the competition. I recall scrambling to find a flight home one day earlier than planned.

Next time we field a "throwback team," I doubt I'll watch. Participation needs to remain on merit if all the tournaments leading up to the Mosconi are to be as meaningful as possible. In the words of UCLA Coach John Wooden, "if you give me a choice between talent and experience, I'll take talent every time."

I was joking about a throwback team. That ain't gonna happen and we know it. I agree with your scenario above. The Euros have gotten stronger and the Yanks have remained at status quo. That ain't gonna cut it this year I'm afraid.

 

[jay helfert]

Every year it seems there are posters who boldly declare the US has no chance, Europe could field 5 different teams better than the US, the US needs Alex, the US needs the entire Filipino nation, the US needs Thanos to snap before the Mosconi Cup, and on and on.

MOST of those same posters said the same thing before the US won in 2018, and most doubled down and were more sure the Americans would get torched in 2019.

Even Jayson Shaw stated while commentating a match not long ago, there is very little difference between the top Americans and the rest of the world. He even went on to say that he knows of several junior players (one that plays out of his poolroom) that are on track to play at world class speed sooner rather than later.

Certainly the Euros are stronger "on paper", but to say the US doesn't have a chance or needs a miracle, is simply hyperbole for the sake of hyperbole. Luckily for the US side, the match must be won on the cloth and not by a comparison of fargo rates

The situation was vastly different in 2018. We had a strong team assembled, full of rising stars and the Euros were missing one or two important players. This year we have two strong players and no new talent to complement them. The other "rising stars" from a few years back have not progressed in their games and may have even regressed. This years MC is shaping up to be a replay of last year.

 

[jay helfert]

Get Double J in the mix and your list and we’ll have something

Replace Corey with JJ? How about that!

 

[sjm]

Talent AND experience are required IMO. I dont think you can choose one or the other. Mosconi Cup has to be the toughest environment to play in. Especially when played in England.

Obviously, it's a matter of opinion, but I'd suggest that the case history shows that they are not both required.

Fedor Gorst had an easy time of it as a 20-year old Mosconi rookie in 2020, and second time Mosconi Cup participant player Klenti Kaci played well as a 21 year old during the 2020 Cup. In his first ever Mosconi Cup, in 2017, the 20 year old Josh Filler was the Mosconi MVP. Team Europe is proving time and time again that you can play great pool at the Mosconi whether you have experience or not, It's about playing well, not about experience.

 

[Fatboy]

Replace Corey with JJ? How about that!

Honestly yes, Corey is my friend but honestly Mcup isn’t his strong suit. I will call it as I see it. Corey is the stronger player, but in Mcup JJ brings the chemistry and is better for the whole team. Not a knock on Corey at all, actually I get it, I’m not a “team” guy. JJ has the experienc, track record and remember how good he was with Bonus Ball as team captain.

How I see it,
Fatboy

 

[jokrswylde]

No, the difference between Europe and America right now is huge, and Europeans perform almost as well on US soil as on European soil. The worst thing that could ever happen to the American contingent would be for them to be deluded about their current standing in the world of major international pool events. They need to own the gap between them and Europe and do something about it.

My point being that the Americans were way behind in 2018 and 2019 as well. Again, these guys are pros, and running a rack of 9 ball is well within their abilities.

I am not arguing that the euros aren't the favorites. I simply stated that those who think the U.S. has little to no chance are not giving our professionals the respect they deserve, and have maybe forgotten how the underdogs fought for back to back wins a couple years ago.

As far as addressing deficiencies, I thought the US side was well on their way with Johan. As much as I like JJ and Shane, I think the attention to detail and command of the team that Johan brought is unique. One of the MC players told a friend of mine recently that they love JJ, because he is one of them. I am not sure that is what our side needs.

I would have liked for Johan to have another year or so to continue developing our MC program.

 

[skogstokig]

My point being that the Americans were way behind in 2018 and 2019 as well. Again, these guys are pros, and running a rack of 9 ball is well within their abilities.

I am not arguing that the euros aren't the favorites. I simply stated that those who think the U.S. has little to no chance are not giving our professionals the respect they deserve, and have maybe forgotten how the underdogs fought for back to back wins a couple years ago.

As far as addressing deficiencies, I thought the US side was well on their way with Johan. As much as I like JJ and Shane, I think the attention to detail and command of the team that Johan brought is unique. One of the MC players told a friend of mine recently that they love JJ, because he is one of them. I am not sure that is what our side needs.

I would have liked for Johan to have another year or so to continue developing our MC program.

of course certain members of the euro team may be higher up in ranking but less suitable for the MC. notably alex kazakis, and eklent kaci his first year. some naturally slow players will have a tough time with the shot clock. they qualified to the team by ranking points, filler didn't, so chamat couldn't exclude them.

i don't know how they will choose the team this year since there have been so few eurotours but i generally think that going by ranking points is the most fair.

 

[tableroll]

I think JJ should jump in !!!!!!

I don't think he is good enough anymore.

 

[buckshotshoey]

The current estimated population of Europe is 748 million in 44 countries. USA is currently estimated at 333 million.

That said, i see Europe has a definite advantage. They have a larger base of players to choose from.

The population of the Philippines is 111 million. Just give us the Philippines and we'll call it even!

 

[gxman]

I do recall stories of Bergman driving 15+hrs to Vegas and wherever else to play b/c he wouldn't fly.

Losing team gets $20K per player. Gut must be one of those rich pool players that don't need money.

 

[The_JV]

The current estimated population of Europe is 748 million in 44 countries. USA is currently estimated at 333 million.

That said, i see Europe has a definite advantage. They have a larger base of players to choose from.

The population of the Philippines is 111 million. Just give us the Philippines and we'll call it even!

You might have Alex and Johnny if "Team USA" would simply get over the whole "Team USA" thing.

 

[decent dennis]

I do recall stories of Bergman driving 15+hrs to Vegas and wherever else to play b/c he wouldn't fly.

Losing team gets $20K per player. Gut must be one of those rich pool players that don't need money.

The guy ain’t rich