How to Prevent a Shallow-Angle FORCE-FOLLOW Scratch

dr_dave

dr_dave

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FYI, I just posted a new video that analyzes a shot sequence by Shane Van Boening in the recent US Open 9-Ball Championship and shows alternatives for how the out could have gone better. The main focus of the video is learning to prevent a scratch with straight, shallow-angle, force-follow shots. Cloth condition effects are also demonstrated. Check it out:


Contents (with timestamp links):
0:00 - Intro
0:51 - Avoiding the Scratch
2:00 - Slick Cloth
2:42 - History Repeats Itself
3:46 - Slick Cloth Effects
4:17 - Draw Shot Alternative
5:02 - Banana Shots
5:50 - Wrap Up

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
 
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Nice, Dave - thanks!

I take it Turtle Wax doesn't leave any residue on your cloth?

pj
chgo

P.S. Your Turtle Wax trick made me wish for a video exploring the general differences of playing on slick vs. not-so-slick cloth.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Nice, Dave - thanks!
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Thanks. You're welcome! I aim to swerve. 🤓


Patrick Johnson said:
I take it Turtle Wax doesn't leave any residue on your cloth?
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I haven't noticed any, but I am sure it must leave something on the cloth as it wears down. Regardless, it is a terrible idea to wax balls for general play per the info in the 2nd section here:

For slick-cloth-conditions demonstrations, it is certainly better than Silicone Spray, which is very messy and does leave residue on the cloth.
 
Great video Dave...

I can't say if it's a logical practice, but I will say that when I need to 'force' additional carom angle on shallow shots such as you demo'd, I usually jack up somewhat on the CB. I can't explain the science behind it, but I find the ever so slightly hopping CB comes off the OB at a greater angle.

Not something applicable for all circumstances, but something I do frequently.
 
The_JV said:
Great video Dave...

I can't say if it's a logical practice, but I will say that when I need to 'force' additional carom angle on shallow shots such as you demo'd, I usually jack up somewhat on the CB. I can't explain the science behind it, but I find the ever so slightly hopping CB comes off the OB at a greater angle.

Not something applicable for all circumstances, but something I do frequently.
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I do this when needed.
The cue ball hops to the side just a bit.
 
dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video that analyses a shot sequence by Shane Van Boening in the recent US Open 9-Ball Championship and shows alternatives for how the out could have gone better. The main focus of the video is learning to prevent a scratch with straight, shallow-angle, force-follow shots. Cloth condition effects are also demonstrated. Check it out:


Contents (with timestamp links):
0:00 - Intro
0:51 - Avoiding the Scratch
2:00 - Slick Cloth
2:42 - History Repeats Itself
3:46 - Slick Cloth Effects
4:17 - Draw Shot Alternative
5:02 - Banana Shots
5:50 - Wrap Up

As always, I look forward to your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, and requests.

Enjoy!
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Why does JJ always use the term 'hydraulic'???
 
garczar said:
Why does JJ always use the term 'hydraulic'???
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I theorize it might be a "Texas" reference to those lowrider cars. At least it stopped me from wondering about it. :D

The_JV said:
Great video Dave...

I can't say if it's a logical practice, but I will say that when I need to 'force' additional carom angle on shallow shots such as you demo'd, I usually jack up somewhat on the CB. I can't explain the science behind it, but I find the ever so slightly hopping CB comes off the OB at a greater angle.

Not something applicable for all circumstances, but something I do frequently.
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Th cue might be airborne slightly catching some rebound climbing and rolling off the nose of the cushion; a more subtle version of the same thing with the bigger hop.
 
Great video Dave! I seem to leave myself with a shallow angle far too often, so I unfortunately have had quite a bit of experience at dealing with this. It’s a dicey situation no matter how you play it, draw or follow.
 
straightline said:
Th cue might be airborne slightly catching some rebound climbing and rolling off the nose of the cushion; a more subtle version of the same thing with the bigger hop.
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The increased carom angle is just that, and independent of anything happening if/when the CB contacts a rail. My assumption is that the CB coming down on the OB caroms off on the standard 90degree rule, but the collision isn't just on the horizontal plane as you contacting the OB above it's equator. So..., the CB 'squirts' off the OB slightly generating more angle. Keep in mind that the resulting angle will differ depending on whether you hit the OB on the way up or down.

All that said, I'm certain a hopping ball contacting the rail would react differently than one strickly it flat.
 
The_JV said:
The increased carom angle is just that, and independent of anything happening if/when the CB contacts a rail. My assumption is that the CB coming down on the OB caroms off on the standard 90degree rule, but the collision isn't just on the horizontal plane as you contacting the OB above it's equator. So..., the CB 'squirts' off the OB slightly generating more angle. Keep in mind that the resulting angle will differ depending on whether you hit the OB on the way up or down.

All that said, I'm certain a hopping ball contacting the rail would react differently than one strickly it flat.
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I see. The carom bounces wider off the object ball? There might be something with the airborne ball having to strike closer to straight because of the thinner contact than a level stroke would produce. (?) Jacking up might also allow you to get more of a stun effect than otherwise.
 
straightline said:
I see. The carom bounces wider off the object ball? There might be something with the airborne ball having to strike closer to straight because of the thinner contact than a level stroke would produce. (?) Jacking up might also allow you to get more of a stun effect than otherwise.
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Yep 100%... one of the many reasons people who believe jumping is 'so easy' don't realize the different variables the shooter needs to account for. The cut angle changes based on the contact point on the vertical plane as well as the horizontal
 
Sometimes when you get the follow shot to jump a little bit it's a disaster. With just the right jump the cue ball goes nearly straight along the cushion. I suppose it's a matter of how close to the nose of the cushion the cue ball comes down. I think it's not just the banana effect.
 
The_JV said:
Great video Dave...
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Thanks. People seem to like this one. The rate of views so far is one of the highest I've had.


The_JV said:
I can't say if it's a logical practice, but I will say that when I need to 'force' additional carom angle on shallow shots such as you demo'd, I usually jack up somewhat on the CB. I can't explain the science behind it, but I find the ever so slightly hopping CB comes off the OB at a greater angle.

Not something applicable for all circumstances, but something I do frequently.
Click to expand...

Jacking up causes the CB to hop which can delay the follow, allowing the CB to bounce away from the rail more before curving. But as Bob pointing out, this can also backfire on you since more topspin is available to return the CB back to the rail after rebound. FYI, good demonstrations of ball-hop over-cut and CB curve delay can be found at the bottom of the page here:


Enjoy!
 
alstl said:
Thanks for the content.
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You're welcome. Thanks for watching.

alstl said:
I was beginning to wonder where you went.
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I go on vacation for a week and people go into withdrawal. :ROFLMAO:

I'm glad to know people look forward to seeing my stuff and notice when I haven't posted in a while. This is flattering, and I appreciate it.

I'll try not to stay away so long before my next video. 🤓
 
The_JV said:
The increased carom angle is just that, and independent of anything happening if/when the CB contacts a rail. My assumption is that the CB coming down on the OB caroms off on the standard 90degree rule, but the collision isn't just on the horizontal plane as you contacting the OB above it's equator. So..., the CB 'squirts' off the OB slightly generating more angle. Keep in mind that the resulting angle will differ depending on whether you hit the OB on the way up or down.

All that said, I'm certain a hopping ball contacting the rail would react differently than one strickly it flat.
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The CB hops automatically with any fast follow shot. For demonstrations, see the follow ball hop resource page.
 
dr_dave said:
... because he likes making up sh#t. :eek:
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I happen to think Jeremy is the best commentator around, and one of the most all around knowledgeable pros around, but like most pros he has a few beliefs that are just dead wrong. Science isn't usually their strong suit although he is better than most.
 
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