What kicking system would you use for this shot?

7

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Buddy Hall played safe on Dennis Hatch in the finals of the US Open 9-ball Championships:


I wonder how Dennis Hatch measured his kick shot? Would you employ a 1 rail kick or a 2 rail kick? How would you measure the kick? By feel? A system?

On a side note, I really like Mike Siegel as an announcer.

Thanks.
 
What Dennis used was the experience system combined with a majority of the hope-for-a-roll system.

OB in a corner is usually a pretty easy kick, though that vid doesn't support that claim.

I think he hit it way too hard for what he was attempting. It probably bounced off the first two rails too.

You can see by where he touched the end rail pre shot where he thought he should hit and he missed that by a good way...presuming he was trying to cross the OB on the side facing the inside of the table, the ball still went long enough the go 3 rails in the corner.
 
7stud said:
Buddy Hall played safe on Dennis Hatch in the finals of the US Open 9-ball Championships:


I wonder how Dennis Hatch measured his kick shot? Would you employ a 1 rail kick or a 2 rail kick? How would you measure the kick? By feel? A system?

On a side note, I really like Mike Siegel as an announcer.

Thanks.
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IMHO the 2 ball is huge and a 2 rail kick from the side rail avoids the scratch.
A one rail long kick opens up a possible ball - rail - pocket - scratch.
Also, the one rail long kick leaves a potential safety if it is not pocketed.
 
Black-Balled said:
You can see by where he touched the end rail pre shot where he thought he should hit and he missed that by a good way...presuming he was trying to cross the OB on the side facing the inside of the table, the ball still went long enough the go 3 rails in the corner.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it looked to me like Dennis Hatch was really hitting a 1-rail kick shot to the spot on the end rail where he touched the rail (near the 2-ball). But, he missed the spot on the end rail by over a foot.
 
u12armresl said:
IMHO the 2 ball is huge and a 2 rail kick from the side rail avoids the scratch.
A one rail long kick opens up a possible ball - rail - pocket - scratch.
Also, the one rail long kick leaves a potential safety if it is not pocketed.
Click to expand...
I also would prefer to try to Kik that OB into the nearest pocket, 2 rails and from the other direction.

The way he hit it was high hope and very unlikely to provide a safe leave.
 
middleofnowhere said:
For that shot just feel. The ball is big, Dennis just hit it terrible. He should not have missed it.
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There you go. He way over hit that ball and lost the angle entirely. Looked like he was frustrated. That was a big ball to hit and it could have turned out okay, espeically with the eight ball tied up against the nine. Sigel did his usual good job with the commentary.
 
jay helfert said:
There you go. He way over hit that ball and lost the angle entirely. Looked like he was frustrated. That was a big ball to hit and it could have turned out okay, espeically with the eight ball tied up against the nine. Sigel did his usual good job with the commentary.
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Not at that speed though. That was a white flag shot.
 
jay helfert said:
There you go. He way over hit that ball and lost the angle entirely. Looked like he was frustrated. That was a big ball to hit and it could have turned out okay, espeically with the eight ball tied up against the nine. Sigel did his usual good job with the commentary.
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My take on this is first of all he simply blew it but as far as a system it appears to me he could have been using the Corner 5. He was laying on 7 and aimed at 5 but opposite the diamond, I think to miss the 5ball that seems to be a possible hazzard. The extra speed was to shorten the angle off 1st rail.
He needed more than say 1/2 diamond that you can get from high speed. A hair below center I think would have worked just fine.
 
He didn't use any system. Maybe he could have used one. Most carom kicking systems would never have you shoot that hard.

I would have played that mostly by feel. It's important to know how to go one rail to the corner pockets from nearly anywhere at any speed.

Dennis missed so badly I wonder whether he got a bounce off the first cushion.
 
My kicking system for that shot is homemade. Find the midpoint between the two balls and then adjust by distance away from the rail.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Looked to me like he aimed it too long (and maybe added some running spin).

pj
chg
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yes he did, but used speed to shorten it up. That wasn't enough.
I guess you and others are saying the 5ball was out of the equation.
If so, I don't know why he missed so badly and no clue what he was thinking.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Most carom kicking systems would never have you shoot that hard.
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Of course most if not all systems don't have you shooting that hard. Now days it seems most carom players aren't playing strict to the systems.
They're playing by feel.
Doesn't slamming into a rail shorten the rebound angle? Maybe around 1/2 diamond on the 2nd rail?
 
3kushn said:
Of course most if not all systems don't have you shooting that hard. Now days it seems most carom players aren't playing strict to the systems.
They're playing by feel.
Doesn't slamming into a rail shorten the rebound angle? Maybe around 1/2 diamond on the 2nd rail?
Click to expand...
A dead ball will shorten a lot. If you have normal running english I don't think it will shorten as much.
 
I would have kicked towards the end rail closest the camera. No system exactly.

I know that the line from the side to the middle of the end rail leads approximately to the other side. If you parallel shift that line over the cue ball you can see you're likely to kick just past the upper side. Not by enough to hit the four ball though. So I'd estimate where that kick would take me. Then, whatever the gap is between where I want my cue ball to hit the 4 ball and where the 'just past the side kick' line passes the 4 ball, I split the difference and add that to where I aim on the end rail. So in this image I can see I'd be about 10" from the four, so I'd aim in about 5" to try to get a good hit.

I think this kick looks routine. I wouldn't aim at the hole or try to cinch a hit. I could go through the gap or scratch off the back of the 4 ball very easy. I'd like to hit it thin and make it of course but I wouldn't risk aiming thin as I'm likely to miss. My best hope would be to come off the second rail, catch it 1/2-3/4 full, and have the four ball bank up table while the cue ball stays near the foot rail, hopefully in back of the 5 or 6. I'd play it with that speed in mind.

Thoughts?

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bb9ball said:
In that same game, was anyone else surprised by how Buddy played shape from the 7 to the 8?
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He was in a funny spot, straight in from distance. He knew he had all six pockets for the eight ball so he just wanted to get down there close to it,. and he did.
 
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