The Legendary Pearl to Take On 14.1 Attempts

[Bob Jewett]

.... flow through rack after rack like the great Mosconi corresponds to 100+ roughly 1 in 2 tries, that's 32 attempts to shoot 500+ ....

I think that's an overestimation of his percentages. If you look through Ursitti's records of the championships, Mosconi certainly didn't play near that level in tournament competition. Here are all of Mosconi's matches from the 1950 US National Championships which were played in Chicago on 4.5x9 tables.

That includes only three runs over 100 in 9 wins. The small numbers are the innings so the longest match was 18 innings against Don DeCoy.

After the National, they immediately played the World Championship at the same venue. Here is the summary of that double round robin:

Willie didn't always run out.

 

[ChrisinNC]

there was no US Open 14.1 (or 14.1 world championships) between 1992 and 2000. Tough to win straight pool tournaments if there aren't any
And no question, Strickland's straight pool game is relatively weak (compared to his 9 ball or to the players he had to compete against like Mizerac or Ortmann / Hohnmann)

I find it rather amusing a number of posters are criticizing Earl’s 14.1 game, just because he can’t run 300 balls at 60 years old. No one questions he’s one of the greatest 9-ball players ever, do they really expect him to be a 300+ ball 14.1 runner as well, particularly at his age?

Historically, I can only think of a very few players that were great at both games. Lassiter and Sigel come immediately to mind but very few others. Certainly not Mosconi, Crane, Mizerak, Hall, Reyes, Hohmann, etc, etc.

Earl’s performance at this format was very respectable, considering his age and considering most 14.1 ‘experts’ here have been so critical of his pattern play, despite his 17 runs of 100+ balls and 8 runs of 150+ balls in just one week.

I do agree with Glen that for these guys to be attempting this on what I’ve heard are 5 inch pockets with very forgiving pocket facing angles is a little strange, since they likely have never played on a table like this their entire professional lives. His point about so many runs ending in scratches is certainly legitimate.

 

[realkingcobra]

It should be mentioned that playing an actual match is far different than just trying to run balls. The reason being there's consequences if you miss or make a mistake so you don't do it.

For example Earl kicking in that ball off the long rail. Or any one of a number of shots he made that in a real match you would probably play safe in and the run would end. So when somebody ran 100 or 150 in a real match it was a pretty clean run or they would have quit and played safe.

That's not saying in a real match a player won't go for a fairly low percentage shot because the reward is going to be pretty good you're still at the table. But you're not going to be doing the crazy stuff you'll do trying to maintain a run.

I saw Joe Balsis play quite a few times and he wasn't allergic to shooting a low percentage shot to stay at the table. So was Miz. In fact in the case of Miz that might have been his power, he was liable to shoot anything.

I saw him beat Crane once shooting at a ball from the end rail after some safety play. After the match Crane yelled in his face telling him he didn't know how to play. "You should not have shot that shot" and took his cue apart and walked away. That may be, but Miz still won.

I myself was kind of a straight pool nut and having owned pool rooms I often get on the table and practice for hours just straight pool. People sitting around watching me play if I got in trouble would often be around the table trying to figure out what I should do to keep going.

I would never do that. If it wasn't something I would do in a game I wouldn't do it. I've seen players practicing run 80 90 100 balls. In the course of the run shoot Banks maybe even getting out of line on a break shot and bank the corner ball get lucky and make it.

It would be kind of like running say 90 and another run of say 112 back to back, then claiming he ran 202 because of course if he just hadn't missed that ball in between he would have.

Many players have won many matches without ever having missed a ball. Combination of runs and safety play. What their doing in the challenge while interesting is not real straight pool. And I'm sure it's not meant to be.

Having said all that, I have no doubt if Earl shows up at a straight pool tournament he's fully capable of winning against anybody. There's been champions in the past that have had reckless styles of play, he wouldn't be the first.

I agree, it all depends on the opposition.

 

[realkingcobra]

He did. You don’t know much as you think you do. By chance it was this past year leading up to Mcup.

Is that when he ran 480 for his personal high run?

 

[Rodney]

If idiots are the ones NOT drinking the kool-aid, what does that make those that are, the dumbasses

I’m not sure what Kool-aid your referring to. If he says he ran 480, that’s on him. Who really cares. He didn’t say he broke the world record, if he did we’d all want proof. You’re the last person who should question someone’s integrity.

My personal best is 69. Don’t believe me? I don’t care.

You can go back to showing your ass some more and I’ll sit back and laugh at my free entertainment.

 

[Shuddy]

I’m not sure what Kool-aid your referring to. If he says he ran 480, that’s on him. Who really cares. He didn’t say he broke the world record, if he did we’d all want proof. You’re the last person who should question someone’s integrity.

My personal best is 69. Don’t believe me? I don’t care.

You can go back to showing your ass some more and I’ll sit back and laugh at my free entertainment.

69. Niiiiiiice

 

[kanzzo]

I think that's an overestimation of his percentages. If you look through Ursitti's records of the championships, Mosconi certainly didn't play near that level in tournament competition. Here are all of Mosconi's matches from the 1950 US National Championships which were played in Chicago on 4.5x9 tables.

yeah, it was very far fetched guess. Just from the stories I read about him. There are players with better than 1 in 3 chance to run 100 so my guess was, Willie Mosconi (being the best straight pool player that ever lived) would probably have a better chance to run 100 on a open table (closer to 1 in 2) and it's a huge difference to start your run with an open table or playing tournament against tough opponents who hate to leave the table on a miss.

His exhibition matches he played mostly against very weak opponents and let them start with a run and came to an open table. Also no pressure mostly to ever loose, so probably he took sometimes lower percentage shots to continue his run that he wouldn't take in a tournament for a world championship title against an Irving Crane.

So for a high run challenge it's about how many balls you can run with an open table. Tournament play is different thing.

I watched a lot of Ortmann matches against weaker opponents (German leage games, German Championships). Cant't think of a single match he didn't run 100+. So starting with an open table and no pressure from opponent his chances to run 100+ were better than 2.5 to 1. I would think, Mosconi could beat this.

18 innings match against Decoy could easily be a 15 innings safe battle

But these all are just guessed numbers about what is humanly possible playing straight pool. 1 in 4 to run 100 is world class but would take 20 years to run 600. If you want to beat the 626 you should get better than 1 in 3. And I am glad we can witness best straight pool players competing to run most balls and see, what is humanly possible.

 

[realkingcobra]

You guys just don't get it. I'm not, and never said Earl couldn't play 14.1 and be competitive, because he does and can be. It don't take a high run to beat an opponent in a 14.1 match going to 125, all it takes is pocketing the 125th ball first, and Earl DOES have the abilities to pocket balls from anywhere. Earl plays 14.1 the way Earl plays it, making balls as he sees them, and there's the problem. In a high run competition it requires a different mindset when looking at the rack and picking your way through it in order to finish out the rack, have a perfect break ball, and conservative your mental energy for the long run. If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, Earl just demonstrated it, repeatedly he started over and over, blasting his way through rack after rack, not picking apart the racks, but shooting like he was playing 9 ball instead, which ends every 9 balls and starts over.

Why can't any of you see that's why he only posted one legitimate run over 200 balls in all his attempts??

Compare Earl's shooting to Ruslan's rack patterns, he ran up two 266 runs like they were nothing to do, and didn't take him but what, a day or so to do that??? Even though his personal best high run was about the same as he posted in this event, I have no doubt in my mind he can run into the 400+ and beyond with time and the right incentive.

SVB can run balls as well, but even Shane don't play his patterns correctly, but he's not as wild at running through the racks as Earl is, but coming in to this event, Shane's personal best high run was 304, and he backed it up with an event high run of 308!

And here's the common denominator with all three players so far, they all had more scratches than they actually had in misses, why

Because SOMEONE thought it would be great idea to make the pockets HUGE in order to insure the best chance of someone setting a new high run record, but that idea has backfired and ended many runs, because instead of NEARLY scratching the cue ball, it gets SUCKED right in the black holes!!! That was a STUPID, STUPID, STUPID move on the part of management!!!!!!

 

[stunshotDAVE]

You guys just don't get it. I'm not, and never said Earl couldn't play 14.1 and be competitive, because he does and can be. It don't take a high run to beat an opponent in a 14.1 match going to 125, all it takes is pocketing the 125th ball first, and Earl DOES have the abilities to pocket balls from anywhere. Earl plays 14.1 the way Earl plays it, making balls as he sees them, and there's the problem. In a high run competition it requires a different mindset when looking at the rack and picking your way through it in order to finish out the rack, have a perfect break ball, and conservative your mental energy for the long run. If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, Earl just demonstrated it, repeatedly he started over and over, blasting his way through rack after rack, not picking apart the racks, but shooting like he was playing 9 ball instead, which ends every 9 balls and starts over.

Why can't any of you see that's why he only posted one legitimate run over 200 balls in all his attempts??

Cimpare Earl's shooting to Ruslan's rack patterns, he ran up two 266 runs like they were nothing to do, and didn't take him but what, a day or so to do that??? Even though his personal best high run was about the same as he posted in this event, I have no doubt in my mind he can run into the 400+ and beyond with time and the right incentive.

SVB can run balls as well, but even Shane don't play his patterns correctly, but he's not as wild at running through the racks as Earl is, but coming in to this event, Shane's personal best high run was 304, and he backed it up with an event high run of 308!

And here's the common denominator with all three players so far, they all had more scratches than they actually had in misses, why
Because SOME ONE thought it would be great idea to make the pockets HUGE in order to insure the best chance of someone setting a new high run record, but that idea has backfired and ended many runs, because instead of NEARLY scratching the cue ball, it gets SUCKED right in the black holes!!! That was a STUPID, STUPID, STUPID move on the part of management!!!!!!

you already got told by the members, produce your own event. but it flows right through your head. you know what they say about an empty barrel???? ,,,, it makes the most noise, when tapped on the head.

 

[Shuddy]

You guys just don't get it. I'm not, and never said Earl couldn't play 14.1 and be competitive, because he does and can be. It don't take a high run to beat an opponent in a 14.1 match going to 125, all it takes is pocketing the 125th ball first, and Earl DOES have the abilities to pocket balls from anywhere. Earl plays 14.1 the way Earl plays it, making balls as he sees them, and there's the problem. In a high run competition it requires a different mindset when looking at the rack and picking your way through it in order to finish out the rack, have a perfect break ball, and conservative your mental energy for the long run. If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result, Earl just demonstrated it, repeatedly he started over and over, blasting his way through rack after rack, not picking apart the racks, but shooting like he was playing 9 ball instead, which ends every 9 balls and starts over.

Why can't any of you see that's why he only posted one legitimate run over 200 balls in all his attempts??

Compare Earl's shooting to Ruslan's rack patterns, he ran up two 266 runs like they were nothing to do, and didn't take him but what, a day or so to do that??? Even though his personal best high run was about the same as he posted in this event, I have no doubt in my mind he can run into the 400+ and beyond with time and the right incentive.

SVB can run balls as well, but even Shane don't play his patterns correctly, but he's not as wild at running through the racks as Earl is, but coming in to this event, Shane's personal best high run was 304, and he backed it up with an event high run of 308!

And here's the common denominator with all three players so far, they all had more scratches than they actually had in misses, why

Because SOMEONE thought it would be great idea to make the pockets HUGE in order to insure the best chance of someone setting a new high run record, but that idea has backfired and ended many runs, because instead of NEARLY scratching the cue ball, it gets SUCKED right in the black holes!!! That was a STUPID, STUPID, STUPID move on the part of management!!!!!!

You don’t get it. No one has said Earl is the greatest 14.1 player on the planet. No one has even said he’s better than Ruslan or SVB or JS. I’m not sure anyone has even said he definitely ran 480. At the most, people have said it’s within the realm of possibility when he was in his prime.

But you came in and started throwing mud at everyone for no apparent reason.

By the way, how big were the pockets on the table JS ran his 626 on?

 

[skip100]

You don’t get it. No one has said Earl is the greatest 14.1 player on the planet. No one has even said he’s better than Ruslan or SVB or JS. I’m not sure anyone has even said he definitely ran 480. At the most, people have said it’s within the realm of possibility when he was in his prime.

But you came in and started throwing mud at everyone for no apparent reason.

By the way, how big were the pockets on the table JS ran his 626 on?

This seems to be the only manner he has of communicating with people.

 

[lfigueroa]

L
Lifetime high run of 480,....
Should read
Unverifiable claimed high run of 480.
Event witnessed high run of 238

So why should anyone believe your claim of having run 163?

Lou Figueroa

 

[skogstokig]

mr glue man hijacking threads like this isn't new. the US open thread was a clusterf**k for weeks after the event was over. in the end he argued with himself, or at least quoted himself. just don't take the bait.

 

[lfigueroa]

With a 480 high run, where's Earl's championships in 14.1? That claimed high run is higher than Nick Varner's, Allen Hopkins, and Mike Segal's, yet they have all won the world title in 14.1 and Earl hasn't???

Sigel has won over 100 professional pool tournaments in his career as well as over 40 major titles, making him one of the most successful players of all time winning multiple world pocket billiard championship titles, in all divisions, including Nine-ball, Eight-ball and Straight pool (14.1)

Maybe those other guys never seriously tried for high runs.

I know that Nick says he's run countless 100's and 150s and then stopped cold -- that's what this matches were too, it's what he practiced to, and he had no incentive to go further. From what it sounds like, Earl spent some time going for a high run. And if you figure it was a table he was familiar with and that he had the speed down on it, seems to me that a younger Earl could catch lightening in a bottle and hit a 480.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

As the originator of this circus, at least pursue the 14.1 champions, because you're wasting your time trying to pick players that have little, or no knowledge of the game. Oh, and as much as you try to discredit JS's 626 see what you can do with keeping the scoring accurate during this circus act, constantly correcting the scores looks a little suspicious, know what I mean, like, questionable, believable!!

Your hate blinds you to what has just happened: we had a chance to bring Earl Strickland in and everyone (except you) enjoyed the piss out of it.

We did not have another player available but even if we had we would have made room for Earl. The 14.1 specialists will play in our event in due course. Try and hold your water.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Texas Carom Club]

mr glue man hijacking threads like this isn't new. the US open thread was a clusterf**k for weeks after the event was over. in the end he argued with himself, or at least quoted himself. just don't take the bait.

hes probably been sniffing more of that glue than installing it lately causing all this butt hurt posting.

 

[Dead Money]

Hasn’t everyone learned you can’t argue with idiots?

No.

He clearly needs and wants the attention so we are being good sports by playing along.

 

[PoolBum]

Historically, I can only think of a very few players that were great at both games. Lassiter and Sigel come immediately to mind but very few others. Certainly not Mosconi, Crane, Mizerak, Hall, Reyes, Hohmann, etc, etc.

Isn't Thorsten a multiple world champion at both games? And what about Ralf Souquet?

 

[KRJ]

I've played JS for a $100 a game even up before he won the 2006 US Open 9B event, but like I said, for the most part I quit playing in January 1990, but I'll play Earl, sure, and afterwards we can compete for the same amount rebuilding a GC, in fact, we can even double the bet, you interested in backing Earl under those terms?

Nah, Earl would just hire Marc Gregory to build his Gold Crown, just saying Earl only uses the best.

 

[Dead Money]

Ah, I see the problem here; basic reading comprehension. Sorry, let me be clear. Validate means to prove something is real, true, factual. Invalidate is to prove that something is NOT real, true, factual. Evidence is some form of information that supports a statement or theory. I’ll rephrase what I said for you:

We can not say that Earl did or did not make 480 because we don’t have any proof that supports either of those statements.

EDIT: You’re probably going to say that his performance this week is evidence to support the statement that he did not run 480, and some people would say that at 60 years old, his performance this week shows that it’s possible he could have run 480 when he was in his prime. Neither of these are evidence that prove or disprove the assertion that Earl ran 480.

I think it was Fatboy that said earlier in this thread that your offline persona is much more pleasant than your online persona. That may be the case, and I can see that coming through in some of your contributions. For example, in the thread about someone making a replica of the Diamond ball polisher, you were initially combative and insulting towards anyone trying to figure out the workings of your design. However, after a few posts, your passion for design and problem solving got the better of you, and you ended up helping the guy by providing useful tips and information.

But here’s the thing. The people running this event have given 100s of hours towards organizing it. They have put a lot of their own money on the line as an incentive for legends of the game to play straight pool, a game that has failed to prosper in the modern era. They have provided a venue for the players to do this. They are spending hours a day maintaining the equipment, scoring, and racking the balls so the players can focus on playing straight pool. They are streaming all of this for free and for our enjoyment, learning, and entertainment. The steams are attracting hundreds of viewers for hours on end and generating conversation and excitement for the game of straight pool.

And you have repeatedly called the event a “circus”, showing no appreciation for all of the above facts, and insulting the organizers and the people who are enjoying this event. Your keyboard antics allow you to voice your opinions without threat of ramification, revealing what are probably genuine thoughts.

You’re being a dick. Stop it.

Mic drop!