Realistically, what should promoters focus on when it comes to pro pool?

OverTheNut said:
I think Matchroom are making a go of it and things will evolve. In a couple of years time I'm sure a few things will be different from how they are now. What exactly will change? No idea!

9 ball rules definitely need standardizing. So many leagues insist that you must call the 9. They don't have to on TV games.

I just wish when they are showing it on TV (or stream or whatever) that they'd cut down on the excessive use of the overhead camera. Yes - a quick glance sometimes (and for replays) but they seem to go to it every other shot. As a player I want to see the stance and cue delivery. That overhead shot is awful.
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Ask 10 different pool players for their opinions, and you’ll get 10 different opinions. This is why pool is as flippant as it is.
 
To interest the general public, it doesn't matter what game is played, the size of the table, the rules, etc. They want to watch THE MONEY and have a personal connection to THE PLAYERS. If they're playing for huge amounts of money and the players are showman, rather than emotionless robots, people will watch. Why do you think Rudolph Wanderone AKA Minnesota Fats got all that attention and publicity? He even had his own television show in the 60s.
 
LowRight said:
To interest the general public, it doesn't matter what game is played, the size of the table, the rules, etc. They want to watch THE MONEY and have a personal connection to THE PLAYERS. If they're playing for huge amounts of money and the players are showman, rather than emotionless robots, people will watch. Why do you think Rudolph Wanderone AKA Minnesota Fats got all that attention and publicity? He even had his own television show in the 60s.
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The money and the entertainment value. Lots of us watch other sports without betting on those, fwiw.

But the personal connection to a player or player is THE key, imho. To use caps, THE STORY is paramount.

Watch golf and there is ALWAYS a story going on and sometimes the player does well and the story becomes real and folks love that.



Jeff Livingston
 
LowRight said:
To interest the general public, it doesn't matter what game is played, the size of the table, the rules, etc. They want to watch THE MONEY and have a personal connection to THE PLAYERS. If they're playing for huge amounts of money and the players are showman, rather than emotionless robots, people will watch. Why do you think Rudolph Wanderone AKA Minnesota Fats got all that attention and publicity? He even had his own television show in the 60s.
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Nice post! I don't think the money in pool will ever be enough to get fans to watch on that basis alone, but the personal connection to the players is critical, just as you suggest.

Interviews offer players a good chance to come out of their shells, but this opportunity is too often wasted in our sport. As was discussed in the thread posted by Island Drive and indicated below, neither interviewers nor players seem to be keen on letting us get to know much about the competitors, their personalities and what makes them tick. Interviews in pool are plain vanilla time and time again. There's a story behind every player, but the fan rarely learns of that story.

SVB World Champion Interview

It was such a typical, seemingly unplanned interview that had so much more potential to be great but.............................................. In the 5 minute interview.....they Should of asked him about some of the key shots that got him to Finals. Especially his shot...
forums.azbilliards.com

Pool also does little to play up rivalries and that's also a negative. I think Matchroom is doing a little better with interviews than in the past, but there is a long way to go if interviews are to become a window into the mindsets, personalities and lives of the individual players.

As you also note, pool players can be a bit inanimate inside the arena, and far too many of them do look a bit robotic. What we need is a little more "Jayson Shaw at the Mosconi" kind of behavior. Jayson often talks trash, winds up the crowd whether the event is in America or Europe, and plays with a perceptible level of joy and exuberance. I'm not suggesting that pool needs a Mosconi-type aura in every event, but the Mosconi reminds us that pool players can be very animated and engaging when they choose to be.

Yes, that personal connection between fans and the players is, as you suggest, something that pool badly needs.
 
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Pool problem is simple, problems are easy to identify. Problems are many.

Don’t see lot of people getting together to fix, and work in direction for good of sport.

Too many organization trying to do own thing, for own reason, not much team work.

It one big free for all, with no common goals for good if sport.

JMHO
 
Aoki Oi...........personality front and center, animated and a good front man for the Game/Sport.

Also the rivalries as was mentioned Stu, yep, it's mano/mano one on one, kind......... like boxing/punching pumpin' em in sport.
Aggressive in nature game and beautiful to see, like Strickland/Ortman/Mika in dead punch.........allowing the great sounds of a ball hitting/splitting the pocket.

The pocket sounds are VERY important in this games production product, Snooker is too delicate of a game to have that in common.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Pool problem is simple, problems are easy to identify. Problems are many.

Don’t see lot of people getting together to fix, and work in direction for good of sport.

Too many organization trying to do own thing, for own reason, not much team work.

It one big free for all, with no common goals for good if sport.

JMHO
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That's why this discussion is in place, hopefully MR will READ em.
 
What, like me you don't want the pool world to have 10 Wimbledon events/I mean 10 US Opens, like the prior BCA board member Mark Griffin has
put into place. :)
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Well if you really want Pool to be successful in USA, you need on organizing body like other sports have.

Not 7+.🤮
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You keep saying this, but is it true? I don't think so.

The more the merrier and the more the better for discovery of what really works, not what anyone here thinks works.


Jeff Livingston
 
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The current BD has a great article on this re Predator's latest tournament with the new formats.

I was on the fence about this, but I like Predator's thinking here. They're trying to get more folks in the seats and bring league pool and pro pool closer. I know, I know...this has been tried before. Not sure if that one is the path, but damn, they're trying to fill seats.

Also the new format for the finals with the 2 sets and playoff thingy. I like the effort to please the general crowd moreso than the players and us old-timers, worn out over the years. If they need us to make a buck, it ain't gonna happen.

The playoff thingy is a great start to finding what a paying audience might enjoy.

Races to 11 and all that....blah....I'd rather watch paint dry. You want excitement? Try a race to 2.



Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
You keep saying this, but is it true? I don't think so.

The more the merrier and the more the better for discovery of what really works, not what anyone here thinks works.


Jeff Livingston
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Well if you look at the PGA they are successful. They pretty much have most of Golf under one umbrella.

Seem to work well for Golf, and there use to be a minor tour. Nike tour.

Normal first place win is $1,000,000.00 plus for four days work. Not bad for a weeks work.


Don’t see Pool Big Fish ever working together to build one group to unite Pool.

Their mentality is fighting one another not working in common direction.
 
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CocoboloCowboy said:
Well if you look at the PGA they are successful. They pretty much have most of Golf under one umbrella.

Seem to work well for Golf, and there use to be a minor tour. Nike tour.

Normal first place win is $1,000,000.00 plus for four days work. Not bad for a weeks work.


Don’t see Pool Big Fish ever working together to build one group to unite Pool.

Their mentality is fighting one another not working in common direction.
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You've been schooled on this falsehood about one golf organization running everything. It doesn't.

There are many: The USGA, the PGA, the WGC, individual tourney promoters as happened last weekend at the Zurich, those who invented the game at St. Andrews, etc. etc. Not to mention many local groups here and there setting up events, etc.

The mentality for pool players to fight one another is many times stupid, but it is not stupid to be different in approaches and strategies, attempting to find a winning one.



Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
You've been schooled on this falsehood about one golf organization running everything. It doesn't.

There are many: The USGA, the PGA, the WGC, individual tourney promoters as happened last weekend at the Zurich, those who invented the game at St. Andrews, etc. etc. Not to mention many local groups here and there setting up events, etc.

The mentality for pool players to fight one another is many times stupid, but it is not stupid to be different in approaches and strategies, attempting to find a winning one.



Jeff Livingston
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Well we got Spring Football now, another group is gambling it will be successful. USFL.

I am thinking it will not last long, this has been tried before, 5 or more times, and went away.
 
sjm said:
Making the game consistent and recognizable to the wider audience is the key to attracting and keeping them. The hardcore viewer will watch no matter what the details are.

It is a fiction that what the players want and what the fans want are the same thing. The players are always asking for rules changes, equipment changes, prize payout changes, and other things that make almost no difference to the casual fan, who simply wants consistency and continuity so that the game remains recognizable to them. Every time player demands are met by event producers, the casual fan is, ever so slightly, disenfranchised because the pros are no longer playing a game those fans know.

Snooker has it right. Even the most casual of fans knows 99% of the rules in snooker and the game is incredibly simple to follow. The game looks about the same as it did 50 years ago. On the other hand, for years now, it seems that every pool tourney has equipment and rules that are different from the event before it, and it's no longer the game that the casual fans play in the bars or the pool halls but something different.

Matchroom is the first to truly understand how important it is to give the fans the game they know, and they are making great strides in standardizing their pool offering. That said, however, the players are already talking unionizing and have made it clear that they'll push hard for some rule and format changes. This will back Matchroom into a corner, for they cannot relent without modifying their product in a way that makes it less recognizable to casual fans. A return to the times when the game was tweaked time and time again, in my view, must be avoided.

Predator, conversely, has overhauled the game, switching from nine ball to ten ball, playing call shot rules, disallowing golden breaks, giving a player a pass/play option whenever opponent pockets a ball they didn't call, and a spot shot shootout to break ties. They're taking a completely new approach to things, and maybe time will prove them right that this will catch on with casual fans. Fans are still getting used to their pro pool product, but that's OK, as long as that product remains consistent. We shall see.

I think both Matchroom and Predator are focusing more on the entertainment value of their pro pool offering for the fans than the needs of the pros, and that's encouraging for our sport.

What the pros need is the opportunity to make a living, and they've never had it better than they have it now. If they are vigilant in demanding changes to the pro pool offerings of the event producers, they'll reduce the likelihood that casual fans will tune in and stay interested over time. If they are wise, they'll let the event producers manage the pro pool product as they see fit.
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Absolutely agree. Good post. Unionizing and making demands will be the death of pro pool. Working together, on the other hand, will make big strides.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Well if you look at the PGA they are successful. They pretty much have most of Golf under one umbrella.

Seem to work well for Golf, and there use to be a minor tour. Nike tour.

Normal first place win is $1,000,000.00 plus for four days work. Not bad for a weeks work.


Don’t see Pool Big Fish ever working together to build one group to unite Pool.

Their mentality is fighting one another not working in common direction.
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That's because the entire pool viewing audience is torn on what they want to see. If the spectators can't agree on what they want to watch, how can promotors agree on what product to deliver?
 
sjm said:
Nice post! I don't think the money in pool will ever be enough to get fans to watch on that basis alone, but the personal connection to the players is critical, just as you suggest.

Interviews offer players a good chance to come out of their shells, but this opportunity is too often wasted in our sport. As was discussed in the thread posted by Island Drive and indicated below, neither interviewers nor players seem to be keen on letting us get to know much about the competitors, their personalities and what makes them tick. Interviews in pool are plain vanilla time and time again. There's a story behind every player, but the fan rarely learns of that story.

SVB World Champion Interview

It was such a typical, seemingly unplanned interview that had so much more potential to be great but.............................................. In the 5 minute interview.....they Should of asked him about some of the key shots that got him to Finals. Especially his shot...
forums.azbilliards.com

Pool also does little to play up rivalries and that's also a negative. I think Matchroom is doing a little better with interviews than in the past, but there is a long way to go if interviews are to become a window into the mindsets, personalities and lives of the individual players.

As you also note, pool players can be a bit inanimate inside the arena, and far too many of them do look a bit robotic. What we need is a little more "Jayson Shaw at the Mosconi" kind of behavior. Jayson often talks trash, winds up the crowd whether the event in in America or Europe, and plays with a perceptible level of joy and exuberance. I'm not suggesting that pool needs a Mosconi-type aura in every event, but the Mosconi reminds us that pool players can be very animated and engaging when they choose to be.

Yes, that personal connection between fans and the players is, as you suggest, something that pool badly needs.
Click to expand...
Yes. That's where I feel the Mosconi Cup got something right...... the player interviews. And it does bring out the player emotion. It is a good production.
 
Yep waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the SVB World Championship interview, hard to compare. Good post b shot.
 
Even though he's a douchebag conman i do think KT's IPT got it right with the slower cloth and playing 8ball.
 
I love the sounds of a great shot in pool, with the right pockets, similar to the the driver in golf, when they hit a clean shot, that ''crack'' of the golf drive head crushing the ball gives viewers the feel of the moment.
 
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